Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Drowned Rat · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Ok, guys. Lots of people seem to think that this store is opening itself up to crime by having a "No Guns" sign posted. Is having no sign at all a deterent to crime? Are criminals going to leave his store alone because they don't know if someone inside has a gun or not? Stores with no signs posted are held up all the time. Maybe if a criminal saw a "No Guns" sign, they might think people are watching for it and avoid the store. Criminals are STUPID! They do irrational things in an unpredictable manner. You could have a "Criminals will be Shot" sign posted on your store and a "Charton Heston is my President" bumper sticker on your car, and some idiot is still going to try and rob you. Why do people rob banks with armed guards and a video camera on every corner, because they're STUPID. I'll stop ranting now.

Carphunter · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

gonfishn, Let me say this, how many accidental shootings have you heard of in any store? I personally have not heard of any. Now, how many intentional shootings have you heard of in any store? I have heard of many. I would be more willing to protect myself and my customers from the greater risk, IMO. If something bad did happen in your store, and someone says, "If I only could have been allowed to protect myself while in this store", what do you think would happen? You would find yourself in a lawsuit because you didn't allow personal protection in your store. The law abiding citizens won't be your problem, the law-breakers will. I to would refuse to enter your store if I was not allowed to protect myself or my family. Whether I carry or not is not the point, but I would want the option to be able to, if I perceived that a threat might exist. I'm not bustin your chops buddy, just stating an opinion.

I suppose since you posted this here you wanted some feedback. True friends will give you honest feedback, they won't just tell ya what ya want to hear.

Good luck.

neumanns · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

This whole theory of this sign being an invitation to be robbed cracks me up. The implication of this is that if someone robbed the store and you were there with your CCW you would defend $20-$2000 (That doesent even belong to you as a customer) with your life. You guys just go ahead and take a situation where the chance of a weapon being discharged in the commision of a crime being very low and increase the odds to 100%. Makes perfect sense to me. As for me and mine the only place a weapon has any business being brandished around is to protect my family. Not gonfishins money or even mine. As for personal protection I would think a female clerk would be more likley to want one for protection from rape, but Gonfishn c'mmon havent any of yall seen his picture. Your arguments sure sound good in theory, but please keep them there as they do not carry much weight here in reality. Gonfishn post the sign, should someone come into your store with a gun and ill intentions your odds are a lot better if it is the only gun there. Fact is money is not worth a gunfight give it to him and odds are he will be on his marry way. Punk proabbaly wouldn't have the nerve to use it unless someonelse pointed one at him. Before you jump on me for being against guns I am not. I did have a CCW in Texas before I moved and rarly if ever carried beyond the first few days after I got the permit. Just listen to your own arguments.

18rabbit · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Why do people rob banks with armed guards and a video camera on every corner, because they're STUPID.

No, not really. 6 out of 10 bank robberies go unresolved by the FBI. It is one of the few crimes that really does pay. FBI knew that had a problem when someone showed up to rob a bank in L.A. and someone else was already in there robbing it.

Carphunter · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

neumanns, If I have to brandish a gun in a store, i'm sure not going to be doing it to protect the stores property. Thats silly. If I happen to be somewhere with my family and something bad happens, I want the opportunity to protect my family with something more than harsh words. The key here is protect my family. If I feel my family is in mortal danger, then I will do what I feel is appropriate. If I happen to witness someone trying to murder someone in cold blood, then I would do what is appropriate. I am not someone that would just stand by while some punk murders or kidnaps someone.

Gonfishn, post the sign, should someone come into your store with a gun and ill intentions, your odds are a lot better if its the only gun there.

Your odds are a lot better for what? Getting shot? Someone kidnapping someone? That is one ridiculous statement. Point is, you have a better chance of getting shot by someone with ill intentions, then getting shot by someone accidentally. If you want to be a statistic, or have a loved one be a statistic, then thats your business. Just like its my business to shop elsewhere.

samagee · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

We just had another store clerk shot here in the cinci area not to long ago. The clerk handed over the money, and thought the robber was just going to leave. Turns out, the robber wanted to flex some power and pulled the trigger anyway. It happens more than you think, as this was not the first time in this area.

POINTER94 · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Why not just add, Don't worry the owner has you covered.." I would not worry personally, but as it is the perogative of the owner to decide who and "what" they have in their store, than it goes to a personal property issue as much as a right to carry issue. I am all about personal property rights. I would also add that those with a CC permit are not the people that I would worry about. I would welcome them into my store as I would with any other paying customer. As for the stunt they pulled by boycotting your store, what a crock. It was so important that they didn't even discuss their point of view with you, went immediately to threats. Let them do it and check your monthly totals I bet it won't change one ioda. Most people will let you know they are boycotting anyways, and track it that way. Boycotts as a rule are unfruitful. Hell, if you are the best in the area, nobody will be boycotting you place cuz of your policy. (I don't know what type of establishment you own) I don't see you infringing on anyone's rights and no matter what you do there is a lawyer lurking in the weeds to sue you. I hope you don't serve "Hot" coffee.... Go forward and if you change your mind great, and if you don't great. This is YOUR store, you set the rules......

samagee · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

As far as the sign in the store goes. It is their right to place it. I will act accordingly and respect their rights. I do wonder why they place it there now, when citizens have always been able to carry a firearm as long as it wasn't cancealed. However, there is some confusion around that. Perhaps it's because we would have been arrested for inducing panic. I have had that told to me so many times, it's not funny. Kinda sad how the common citizen has become nothing but hearded cattle huh? They see a firearm and run screaming. At any rate. I am in the process of getting mine here in the cinci area. I for one grew up with firearms. Trained along side other officers on the fireing range, because of relatives that were on the force. I have two friends that are on the force, one is my best friend since grade school. He is the firearms instructor for his department, and a sargent. I go to the range with him to this day and he still gives me pointers. So with that little bit of info, you can see that not all gun carrying citizens are uneducated/untrained. I also study martial arts so that I don't feel my firearm is my only option. I can tell you, there are far more deadly people out there on the streets next to you every day that can kill you with just their bare hands. What are you going to do about that? Make them walk around with handcuffs on? Some people do not want to be hearded like cattle to the slaughter. You will just have to learn how to live in a diverse world. I thought that 9/11/01 had woken people up to the fact that we don't live in "Never Never Land". I guess I was wrong. I am not saying we all have to walk around like something is going to go boom at every corner. But I think it speaks volumes about the level of responsibility that we all should be taken for ourselves, and those we take care of. You can't expect the police or government to be at your beck and call.

gonfishn · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Many here say that you would not go into any place that you aren't allowed to carry your gun.. So does that mean you will never go into another hospital,bank or any goverment Goverment building? I am just asking..There are many places that you are not allowed to carry guns into, whatever state you live in.. My sign does not say that I do not have guns on the premises and neither does he know it. Have any of you been robbed at gun point? I have..there is no reason why he won't shoot you even if you don't have one..Newspapers are full of it..In my case many years back a customer walked in and put a gun on me and wanted my money(40$)..as I gave him the money he pulled the trigger(Click)I then beat him half to death with his own gun..Even if I had a gun I never would have been able to get to it..As Neaumans has said I am not a little guy...I am about 6'5 and hit the scales at 240. Was about 220 back then.. Btw I was later sued for using excess force by him(truth)..He got ten years.. Sure your gun is your protection..If you have to pull your gun and even hesitate a sec. your already dead..Many of you know what I am talkn about..Now with the new law there will be many more carrying guns and the % goes way up on accidental shootings as you call it.. I am glad this debate has not gone overboard here and appreciate you at least understanding where I stand on this issue.. I do value your opinions here but you are not in my shoes and can only give advice on the ifs and the whats that you would do..I am not you..

Drowned Rat · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

18Rabbit, my point is that criminals are not going to avoid your establishment even when it's heavily guarded. The criminal mindset is that they do not think they are going to get caught. They are not even thinking of the consequences, because they never think it will come to that. Newmanns Quote.

should someone come into your store with a gun with ill intentions, your odds are a lot better if it is the only gun there

This is the hard truth. You are about 10 times more likely to be shot if you retaliate with a gun. By the time anyone knows what's going on the "Bad Guy" already has his gun pulled on someone. He came in the store with a plan and is prepared to do whatever is necessary to get away. And he has the advantage in other ways too. He has little or nothing to lose by using his weapon. Anyway, I know I'm wasting my time here. Last post, I promise.

Kenneth Brown · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Glad to hear that DR. I will go ahead and address this issue with you a little more. You say:

I don't think so! Not in Texas and not in any other state either. He has a sign posted that tells you "Guns not allowed". This means you.

I disagree completely. Look in Texas Penal Code, sec.46.02 prohibited weapons and 46.03 PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. A few sections further it has 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. This states:a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to: (1) peace officers, including commissioned peace officers of a recognized state, or special investigators under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon. I didn't sleep when I went through the academy, I paid attention, and this is verbatum from the penal code A person who has a concealed carry and enters anothers property that has a PROPERLY WRITTEN AND POSTED SIGN (who is not a peace officer by the way) will be charged with a class A misdemeanor and if found guilty will have the liscense revoked. By the way, thanks for correcting my miswording of the refusing service adage. I still would respect his wishes by NOT carrying a gun in his store if I was off duty. Heres the link to the site if you would like to read it your self. Texas penal code

Drowned Rat · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

OK one more.

including in an establishment in this state serving the public

And this includes private property? An establishment in the state serving the public. i.e. Post Office, DMV, etc... Private Property. A privately owned business. The doors are open or closed at the whim of the owner. "Right to refuse service." Your words I think. My point is, he doesn't have to let you in the store if he doesn't want to regardless of your job. Of course you aren't breaking the law by carrying a weapon, but you would be trespassing if he asked you to leave and you didn't. Cop or not.

bubbakat · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Maw I cain't get the horse to get up. Why son I think he is dead.

JoeW · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Wow!

I thought I was a conservative on this issue because I own two rifles and will resist any effort to register them. I thought that's what the gun debate was about. You guys have really opened my eyes. I have lived in some rough places (e.g. San Francisco Mission Dist.) and I've even seen a man get shot, yet I have never felt the insecurity that would compel me to carry a concealed weapon. I wasn't aware that there are so many who do feel so compelled. Understand that I don't intend to criticize or judge anyone for doing so. I certainly don't question your right to do so. I'm just curious as to why you feel the need to take such a drastic measure. Is it from fear of being robbed, or assaulted? Does this come from news reports of shootings or robberies? Are these problems so prolific in Ohio as to warrant such a law? I believe the act of concealing the weapon goes a bit beyond what our forefathers had in mind.

gonfishn · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Thanks Ken..As I have said in prior responses that ALL Law Enforcement Officers be they on,off,or undercover are exempt from this new law as it should be..I don't and would not expect you to leave your weapons in car be you off or on duty.. I feel that if one is off duty and not in uniform and sees the sign that they just tell me so. You folks really are on duty 24/7 for our safety and I respect that. Bubba when you come up in May my sign is not meant for you or any other officer of the law..But I draw the line if ya think your going to outfish me.

bubbakat · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Jeff I will either out fish you with the rod and reel or I will drop some of my concealed dy-no-mite in that thar lake.

kkaaabooom BTW going to woods reservoir this weekend if weather permits and going to take little bit with me to. She wants to try her new lure out.

Hooty · Apr 5, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

CCW and where you carry is an interesting topic okay but lets get Ken Brown tell us about walking down a Texas street carring a loaded shotgun. I'd a whole lot rather carry one of those.

c/6 Hooty

Fly Rod · Apr 6, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

You are "NOT " going to walk down a Massachusetts street legally with with a loaded shotgun !!! Concealed weapon is for pistols only!!! Also what we have to remember is every state has different laws pertaining to gun laws. In Mass. you don't need a concealment permit. One permit covers both the "RIGHT " to carry and to conceal. Mass. has one of the best permiting systems in the country. 1st: you apply to your local police!!! 2nd: They in turn have you checked out by the State police!!! 3rd: You are checked out by the FBI!!! 4th: You will get your pistol permit if you are a good person. You also have to have a certificate from an approved safety course. You will receive either an "A " or " B " license. An "A" license is for carrying more then ten rounds in the mag. A "B" is for ten rounds or less. The process takes about a month. For those that like to pick on their spouse and she takes out a restraining order "YOU" will have your permit and all your guns taken away as soon as the restraining is issued.

Bondo · Apr 6, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

Mass. has one of the best permiting systems in the country.

You've Got to be Kidding................ You've been under the Kennedy thumb So Long, You're starting to Believe their BULL$HIT......... The Mass. laws are allot like the NY laws....... Yes, You Can Apply, Pay the Fees, Then get Turned Down........ Unless You're one of the Social Elite........... Mass. has the WORST Gun Laws in the Country........ Your Freedom has been Stolen by the Liberals, And, You Don't Even Know It.................... Check your numbers........ You'll find the Rejections to be the Norm.......... Not Approvals................

Fly Rod · Apr 6, 2004

Re: Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

You pay no fees for a gun permit until you are accepted!! "So you are wrong on that point!!" Thank you for that social elite status! "I like that"!!! I didn't relize that allot of us every day Joes were elitest!!! Where has my freedom been taken??? I go hunting in Mass.,& Maine. Fishing and skiing and skimobiling. Vacation thru out the country.Where has our freedom been taken away???? Your wrong again!!!! Your right on this one!!! I do have to agree!!! We do have Ted Kennedy!!! He is more of an eye sore then the litter on the street. "BUT !!!!" please don't blame us for New Yorks gun woes. After all we didn't send a good samaritan to jail!!! Remember the "Subway Vigilante" Mr. Goetz I do believe. He was sent to jail by his peers for protecting himself from four screw driver welding thieves that tried to rob him and he shot them. Mass. would probably given him a good samaritan medal!!!

Add Ohio to Concealed Gun Law

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