A video the Left does not want to see....

rodbolt

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

I am behind ya water one. problem is who do I shoot ?<br /> who are we at war with? how do you make a positive ID on the enemy? how do you break his chain of command? what uniform do we shoot at? <br /> are we at wr with the Iraqis? the Kurds< the sunni's, the shia's? maybe the suadi's or the jordainians? the other problem is where do they camp, where do the eat everyday? seems the training we provided to some of the terror cells has been rapidly taught around the globe . I keep seeing reports that even some russian chechnen fighters have shown up in iraq. here is a fair and critical assesment I found a long time ago<br /> http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army-usawc/schweitzer.pdf <br /> its rather long and the footnotes are rather dry but it starts summing up what the problem with militry action against a shadow is.<br /> <br /> seems a lot of the article was correct. I am not a mathematical wizard but the estimated al-queda and related cells in the middle east was something like 18000 to 20,000 in 2002. so far the pentagon has and estimate of some 50,000 bodies in afghanistan and Iraq. seems either the intel was grossly incorrect and unreliable, they are recruiting faster than we can kill them for some reason or we are killing a lot of civilians as possible terrorists insuring the survivors of the dead are sworn enimies of the west for life. terror is far from new, however with more rapid methods of travel and communications and financing its gotten more difficult to combat. but the above article and a lot of reading about the region since the mid eighties has convinced me the sauds are our biggest threat. but now it seems pakistan,india and indonesia are rapidly equaling the saudi threat. the Iraqi threat was minimal and the afghani threat was laughable. the only way to defeat terroism is to take away the support, that means the ability to demonstrate a better way of life not by demonstrating shock and awe. <br /> these folks been fighting for centuries, you cannot shock or awe them. they have been there done that and their great grandparents handed down the T shirt. <br /> however the US finacial and business ties, especially with our current admins top level personell, will preclude any action against the head of the terror snake.
 

POINTER94

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Jtexas,<br /><br />I couldn't disagree with you and your statement. I will say this though, calling the President a LIAR, which is what the democrats are doing is completely disingenuious. Can you make the arguement that things were wrong, you bet. Can you point to things that would make the balance of the decision swing the otherway, absolutely. But the rhetoric for political gain, and the handwringing for a political advantage, not the betterment of our troops in the field, is the standard low road that the democrats have taken. If we had found one drum of sarin would that have changed the entire debate? Based on the arguements that the dem's put forward it would. And the fact that we gave them months to remove the chemicals based on those who wanted some kind of UN resolution to enforce the 12 resolutions Sadam failed to adhere to. One duce and a half full of chemicals would have made the debate mute. So is there a chance that happened? Of course. <br /><br />It is the democrat's using inflamitory language that makes me sick. And the absolute lack of responsibility for their actions by BLAMING someone for their own lack of homework that infuriates me. We are there. They voted for it. Now like the cowards that they are, they are looking to blame others for their decisions. Real people can disagree on the way things have gone, the democrats are using bomb throwing tactics not for the betterment of the troops or to move forward the improvement of Iraqi people, but to create a bridge between their rhetoric and the elections.<br /><br />The quotes above are provided simply to show that the dem's already had intel and a belief that the reasons put forward by Bush for war were substantiated by their own political machine, and the decision was more preordained than a con job by Bush. Therefor they are not inconsequential. And their faces, and voices are nothing more than a lever for political gain, not a group of dupped idiots. I post simply to point out that they had their own intel and trying to point to a couple of Bush quotes that MADE them vote one way or another is the sign of retarded thinking. And I can't abide by their agenda. And to say that the intel of one of the most viewed countries of the world by the ever competent and magnanamous UN should have made all intel from 3-5 years earlier as valid at the time of war as it was when it was presented to Clinton. Nothing was presented that it ever had changed. And the yellow streak of blaming others is one you wouldn't accept from your children or your friends why do the dem's get a pass?<br /><br />I am one of the few who think Sadam did have WMD's. But hey, I guess I am a liar.
 

rodbolt

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

pointer<br /> I will agree with some of your statements regarding the flippy floppies, thats why kerry did not get any votes from me.<br /> however no matter who did or did not vote is a mute point. I wish to know why the administration in charge when the troops croosed the border so totally botched the job, regardless of party line. you will have to admit it was a total bung up that has killed and maimed a lot folks on all sides and now no one wants to own up to that fact so its all a big smoke screen now with retoric everywhere.<br /> somebody some place roally screwed up and people are dying because of it. and its not really getting any better . the 6 week event promised by rumsfeld was a joke as was the bubba photo shoot on a carrier flight deck. talk about a vomit comet when I watched that.<br /> so after the next Iraqi election the new democratically elected Iraqi;s ask the US to leave in january what do we do ?<br /> do we blow off the govt we just installed or do as they ask? <br /> most dont see the US as liberators and most wish we would leave the money and then go away.<br /> so I ask again do we heed a democratically elected Iraqi govt if the first thing they do is ask for US withdrawl?
 

POINTER94

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

If they ask us to withdraw, were gone in one month. But the government of Iraq has repeatedly indicated that they want us to stay. Publicly. See Kurds say THANK YOU. They think we are liberators. See all those people with purple thumbs, they think we are liberators. Al Jezzera thinks we are invaders. But I guess the question is do you think we are invaders or liberators? I think we are liberators.<br /><br />In what, three months after the invasion, we had a mass murdering dictator living in a spider hole in the desert. Who is creating havoc in country now. Terrorists? Are they wearing uniforms? It is my opinion that we are again making the same mistakes made in Vietnam. Let the military do their job and keep politicians out of the decision making process until it is over. And this crap of I support the troops while I malign the CIC is liberal double talk. I also think that you are reading too much of the liberal media if you think things are not improving daily. Most reports from soldiers on the ground is that things are improving every day and drastically. But the Dan Rathers of the world have a vested interest in the failure of this mission. Where is the dem's plan for VICTORY? I frequently hear their plan on how to "run away". And what can we expect here in the states once the terrorists claim victory. How many skyscrapers can we afford to lose? We committed to this action and the death of 2000 soldier is lamentable, but is there anyone who thinks that when you do go to war, nobody dies? A 1.5% death rate in any war is incredibly low.<br /><br />If a proper Iraqi government askes us to leave, we get out and fast. But if we need more troops in country, we have assests in Germany for 60 years to protect who against what?<br /><br />This is not just a black and white issue, but blaming each other is not only counterproductive but dangerous. And the cut and run solution is brought to us by the party of the bay of pigs. A credibility issue at the least.
 

lakelivin

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1106307,00.html <br /><br />Check out the above Time article detailing what US intellegence has learned about the insurgency. Seems to be mainly initiated by reminants of a secret Baath Party spy service, with foreign religous terrorists/ instigators joining the fray. <br /><br />I read an interview with an Iraqui insurgent leader who stated that getting the Americans out was priority number one. But he stated that after that was accomplilshed, they would need to get the foreign terrorist instigators out of Iraq as well, and acknowledged that would likely be a difficult task. But for now, seems they're taking the position that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend'.<br /><br />Remember, the majority of the native Iraqui insurgents are Sunis; I'm pretty sure the majority of the Islamic religous terrorists are Shiites.<br /><br />I don't see any 'neat' resolution, stay or go. Gonna be a mess over there for a long time I'm afraid.
 

jtexas

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> Jtexas,<br /><br />I couldn't disagree with you and your statement. I will say this though, calling the President a LIAR, which is what the democrats are doing is completely disingenuious. <br />...<br />I post simply to point out that they had their own intel and trying to point to a couple of Bush quotes that MADE them vote one way or another is the sign of retarded thinking. And I can't abide by their agenda. And to say that the intel of one of the most viewed countries of the world by the ever competent and magnanamous UN should have made all intel from 3-5 years earlier as valid at the time of war as it was when it was presented to Clinton. Nothing was presented that it ever had changed. <br />...<br />I am one of the few who think Sadam did have WMD's. But hey, I guess I am a liar.
"calling the president a liar is ... disingenuous" - and a bit irresponsible I think.<br /><br />"a couple of Bush quotes that MADE them vote one way or another" - that plus the weight of history.<br /><br />"And I can't abide by their agenda." Understandable, but you know these are politicians in their natural habitat; they will have a political agenda. We have to learn to tolerate 'em.<br /><br />"Nothing was presented that it ever had changed." - this is the real question...clearly nothing was presented to congress...but what about the president? or Cheney? It's not a question I want to see ignored.<br /><br />I agree that calling the president a liar without hard evidence is just wrong. <br /><br />"But hey, I guess I am a liar." I completely disagree; remember - if you believe it, it's not a lie. :)
 

POINTER94

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

JT,<br /><br />You and I would find little disagreement except for the behavior of the opposition. I wouldn't have any issue with terms like unsubstantiated, reckless, quick to judgement, even irresponsible. But the words chosen are chosen for effect. The problem is the unintended consquences of the rhetoric. It isn't anybody's fault that their best boy is a liar. A profession as "tolerant" as lawyers won't even let him practice. Not anyone's fault but his. And trying to show that they are no worse than the rep's by spewing this kind of hateful and counterproductive noise makes me sick. What is their stategy for VICTORY? Its like they didn't even try to develop one. Their plan: Lets Run Away. This loser mentality is why I could never support this party. It is the party of failure, losers, self loathing, and inequity. Our failure is their sucess. There is something inherantly wrong with this.<br /><br />I am in no way comfortable with the backdrop to our involvement. But there is clearly enough to justify it. I too would like a transparent view of everything but what we are doing is demeaning our country to the benefit of one party. If we laid out 10 reasons for war and one was proven incorrect, does that nullify the action? If every reason was not met, does that make the entire action unworthy? The party of NO is carrying on like always, No Stones. We are doing good things in Iraq and for the Iraqi people. But there are those who would like to see us fail to the demise of our country and the Iraqi people. <br /><br />Win the war! We are there. Sort out the malfeasons if there are any after the fact. Imagine this, calling a african-american or a homosexual a name is a crime, calling the President a liar, murderer, killer, torturer during a time of war is considered patriotic. How sad.
 

txswinner

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

This war is about oil and money, and the winner will be the wealthy. Nothing else mattered then and nothing else matters now.<br /><br />Right-wingers two months ago you were all with George and the gang on oil shortage and how no gouging going on by oil companies. Oops lied to again. No new refineries, no one ran out of fuel, Exxon-Mobile gets called on carpet, only tripled there profit margin from $0.30 to $0.90 per gal.<br /><br />You buy whatever George and friends feed you, but some people are now thinking. 39% approval rating is not good by the way!!!!
 

POINTER94

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Who by name is George W's friends? How long have they been friends? When did they become friends?<br /><br />Guilt by what?<br /><br />Who is all? What methodology was the poll conducted with? Who paid to have the poll taken? What does an approval rating mean to a second term president? I took a poll and both people I spoke with think he is doing a better than average job. 100% approval. Your point?
 

jtexas

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> What does an approval rating mean to a second term president?
Let me take a stab at this one: <br /><br />Even a lame duck has programs he wants to accomplish before he leaves office (tax legislation being one), for which he'll need the cooperation of the republicans in congress. The republicans in congress like it better when a republican president has voter approval because they think it will help them get re-elected (no lame ducks in congress!). I bet the party leadership watches those polls, the published and the unpublished ones, of which I bet there are plenty.<br /><br />hey it's just a theory. ;)
 

TELMANMN

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

B.S. = Bush Scattoligy. Moron's leading Moron's.
 

Realgun

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

that there was no nuclear program;
Somebody forgot to tell the Israeli' Miltary about that. They did attack and destry a nuclear power plant long before 9/11. Don't tell me they were not planning to have nukes. They may not have had them when we attacked but they would have them eventually as will Iran. We had better take care of that 1 too and soon.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

I think someone asked several posts ago how to win in a situation like this. Pretty simple, by overwhelming force and intimidation. That is how Sadam ran this country for years. I am not saying this is the best plan, but in the short term, having enough soldiers that are free to do their job, that are able to be with the people of that country and learn of and force the "outing" of terrorists would be one step towards solving our problems. I know liberals are screaming against this, but this is war and we should be there to win. If five inocent Iraquis die because they are protecting five terrorists....so be it! If our men were bombing whole towns because they(the locals) refused to identify terrorists, then let the bombs drop. Things would change in a hurry if that was our stance.
 
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