A video the Left does not want to see....

KaGee

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

December 16, 1998<br />Web posted at: 8:51 p.m. EST (0151 GMT) <br />WASHINGTON (CNN) -- <br />
<br />From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq. <br /><br />"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said... <br /><br />..."Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton. <br /><br />Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/
 

JB

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Go back and check the dates, JTex. Most of the quotes were when Clinton was President and Cheney was a civilian.<br /><br />Did Clinton lie? Or was GWB manipulating world intelligence from Austin?<br /><br />Not only did they say it, too. They said it FIRST.
 

jtexas

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Thanks, JB. LOL at "Did Clinton lie?" Depends on what the definition...sorry, never mind. ;) <br /><br />In that case was Bush relying on years-old intel? I don't think that was his claim. Just makes the video even less relevant. Not to mention, undignified...I mean if somebody says, "you lied", it doesn't help your case to say, "well, so did you." I understand that's not your point. I'd just rather see the pres take the high road. Let the Rushes and the bloggers do the skirmishing.<br /><br />I'm not convinced GWB manipulated anything...it might be naive but I think it possible that manipulation (if any) happened upstream of himself. But it could be done in Austin or anywhere else on the surface of the Earth, or above it in Air Force One.
 

KaGee

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> <br />If it wasn't manipulated, then you don't have to apologize for it - you made a decision based on the best info that could be obtained. You don't have to try to deflect blame back onto congress.
J...<br /><br />In a perfect world that statement would be correct. Too many Americans no longer reason for themselves. Their opinions are formed based upon their feelings and 30 second sound bites. Those sound bites have been saying "Bush Lied" now for over a month without any serious refute from the administration... till now. <br /><br />There was a time in Texas, that if a man wrongfully accused another of lying, they took it to the street. If the accused didn't defend his honor he was labled a coward. Even worse, he might have been thought to be a lying coward!
 

NMplayer

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Democrats seem really good at barking up the wrong tree. If you want to criticize, then talk about the handling of the war because even in my conservative view there is plaenty to talk about. Instead, they want to accuse the administration of lying about WMD when there are literally hundreds of transcripts and live clips of them saying all of the same things the administration says both before and after GWB took office.
 

bayman

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

When it comes down to it, Saddam himself was claiming to us that he did have WMD right when we were beginning to attack Iraq and threatened to use them on us, should we attack. He said (reported on CNN and other places) that he was going to set up 3 rings of deadly nerve agent. Meanwhile he had been destroying the WMD but wanted to look strong in the eyes of the Arab world.<br /><br />What we don't know for sure is if they were still destroying the WMD as we were attacking. None were found, but how difficult is it to quickly bury large containers in the desert?
 

QC

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Originally posted by KaGee:<br /> There was a time in Texas, that if a man wrongfully accused another of lying,
I personally think that is a big deal. Almost as big a deal as wrongfully accusing someone of being a racist . . . ;) These attacks on an individual's character seem like nothing now. How do we teach our children to respect other's reputations? Is that meaningless?<br /><br />Close to a hijack, sorry, but struck a nerve . . .
 

ufm82

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

jtexas- a clarification for you. You have the argument completely wrong. "I mean if somebody says, "you lied", it doesn't help your case to say, "well, so did you." That's NOT what this video tells us and that is NOT what is being stated by the GOP. What is being said is that Bush has spoken the truth AS DID THE DEMOCRATS 7 YEARS AGO. And then again in 2002 when they all made their comments after the 9/11 ordeal. Whar is being pointed out is that somehow now the Democrats are saying that because Bush said it, it's a lie but they were simply "wrong" or misled. Sorry guys- Clinton was the head cheese in '98. Bush had NOTHING to do with the '98 assertions when everyone was so certain there were WMDs in Iraq. Do you know why they were certain? It was true! Chemical, (mustard gas), Biological, (anthrax) and Nuclear (500 tons of uranium) components were all found in the country. <br /><br /> Open your eyes and see through the Bush-hate. <br /><br />UFM82
 

jtexas

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Thanks for the clarification, UFM82, hard to see through the sarcasm sometimes.<br /><br />What is the shelf life of military intelligence?<br /><br />Okay, so we have some comments made five years before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Let's assume they were correct. We might assume that nothing changes in 5 years, but our assumptions are irrelevant. <br /><br />Did the administration seek to justify war using "intelligence" that was already five years old? I don't think so. I sincerely hope not.<br /><br />So whatever was said by whomever during the Clinton presidency had absolutely no relevance in 2003, and still doesn't. In my opinion, those who believe they are defending Bush using this information are misleading themselves.<br /><br />And some more comments in the months leading up to and following the invasion in April 2003. A little more recent...but did they all have access to the same classified intelligence as the White House? I don't know. I hope we're a little more discrete with military intelligence.<br /><br />Did you watch the whole video? See the part where Bush explains about having congress's approval to go to war? What do you think they based their decision on...was it the "intel" from the Clinton white house five years before, or was it as reported to them by this administration? <br /><br />It's not a rhetorical question, I really want your opinion. It's my belief that the most recent information carried more weight, of course I wasn't there so I can't know for sure.<br /><br />I don't hate Bush; I'm not making an emotional argument. I'm making a rational observation.
 

JB

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Was the "intelligence" manipulated? Sure it was, but it was Saddam Hussein that manipulated it, not Clinton and not Bush.<br /><br />He admitted, in an interview with a CIA Officer, that he planted false intelligence to intimidate his neighbors and in the expectation that nobody would call his bluffing and renegging on commitments and attack.<br /><br />Like the street punk who claims to know karate.<br /><br />He clearly fooled the Clinton Administration as well as the Bush Administration. Give him credit for that.
 

PW2

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

You all are trying to deflect the issue. Go and read the applicable Defense Intelligence Agency intelligence, and the dates.<br /><br />On top of that, you have the New York Times involvement in this whole mess, where they had Judy Miller writing stories based on leaks from Chalabi (an accused embezzler and spy for Iran) and leaks from Scooter Libby that formed the source of front page stories, then the White House dispatches 5 high level administration types to all the Sunday news talk shows, all<br /> saying " in today's New York Times" is reporting such and such... as if it corroborated what they were saying.<br /><br />Maureen Dowd referred to this as an echo chamber between the White House and the Times<br /><br />This whole thing just stinks, and I want to know what really happened.<br /><br />But it strikes me that this administration was looking for an excuse for this war, regardless of whether there was ever a reason for it.
 

oddjob

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

PW and Jtex the answers to your questions have already been answered everywhere and on this forum. You reject them. Denial. nuff said but I doubt it. See it just now was not enough. Someone!(GW) musta had a gun to heads! ya,ya thats it!....<br /><br />You guys remind me of Barney Fife daring Earnest T. to knock a stick off his shoulder. Then, replacing it again with another dare that REALLY means something this time.<br /><br />Childs play.
 

jtexas

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

nope, not answered - dodged - just like you dodged it this time.<br /><br />go ahead, answer it, I dare ya...double dare ya...wait, let me get my bullet out of my pocket...
 

QC

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Originally posted by jtexas:<br />What do you think they based their decision on...was it the "intel" from the Clinton white house five years before, or was it as reported to them by this administration?
Is this the question that is supposed to be answered? Easy. All of it.
 

Link

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Boomyal<br />I watched that LONG clip and thought, how could anyone SPIN this?<br />But they did! Right here on iboats!<br />And these are amateur spin masters.<br /><br />Just ignore the facts and Spin till ya win!
 

KaGee

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Press release from V.P. **** Cheney this evening.<br /><br />
The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone – but we’re not going to sit by and let them rewrite history. <br /><br />We’re going to continue throwing their own words back at them. And far more important, we’re going to continue sending a consistent message to the men and women who are fighting the war on terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other fronts.
 

Boomyal

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Ya waisted your time KaGee. Don't you know that Cheney is already tainted goods? As such anything he says has no validity, or at least so would say our resident critical thinkers. :rolleyes:
 

PW2

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Yep, Cheney is the one that was quoted on Meet The Press that it was "Pretty well confirmed" That Atta met in Prague with Iraqi officials.<br /><br />And the we learned that the FBI had determined thru cell phone records that he was in the US at the time of the supposed meeting in Prague.<br /><br />And on and on and on...<br /><br />I guess Cheney & co can argue that they were simply incompetent, as opposed to purposefully misleading us. There is no credible third choice.<br /><br />And I agree, NM player, there is lots and lots to criticize about the conduct and execution of this war. But this thread was about the build up to the war, and what led us into the war. We all know that unfortunately we can't go back, but maybe we can learn something and be a little more skeptical the next time our leaders want to take us into a mess like this.
 

blade_x

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

*GASP!* Democrats LYING?! Im shocked.....
 

jtexas

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Re: A video the Left does not want to see....

Sure they found chemical weapons in Iraq, white phosphorus & napalm - but I don't think those count, since they were brought in to the country by the U.S. military and used against the Iraqis.
 
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