Lets see if we lemmings can put it into perspective. The removal of Sadam, his sons, and the power structure that made capital punishment for misdemeanors the rule and not the exception would be a good start. How about the installation of more schools and hospitals than prior to the war. How about reallocation of the countries natural resourses to the people for the benefit of all of them. How about scareing the crap out of Libia so they surrender without a fight. How about exposing a corrupt UN, and identifying France for the two faced, self serving, pathetic little bast@rds that they have been since the end of WWII. How about keeping the terrorist threat on the doorstep of every civilized country and creating policies to defeat them. How about being a role model for the world unlike the liberals in Spain that folded their tent and caved into fear. How about the fact that as long as we are in their back yard kicking a$$, they have a harder time mustering resourses and attacking us here at home. How about the elimination of a despot who killed more people than Hitler. How about the fact that a freely elected government will be established in short order. How about the elimination of the torture chambers, How about the total defeat of the third largest standing army in the world in just over a month.<br /><br />Why is it ok to serve up American soldiers in the name of the UN, but not when our President identifies what was a clear and present danger?<br /><br />I smell victory and victory has been achieved on many fronts and in many ways. If you choose not to see it then who is really the lemming?
2 things wrong with the above. First, Saddam didn't kill more people than Hitler. I've tried to find proof of him killing more than hitler, but it's just not there. Second, Iraq didn't have the third largest standing army in the world. They had the 4th largest Army up until 1990 when we invaded and blew them to hell, after we told them we wouldn't. They never fully recovered.<br /><br />Another thing that most people believe is that Saddam gassed his own people. The fact is that the Iranians gassed the Kurds.<br /><br />The condition of the dead Kurds bodies, however, indicated that they had been killed with a blood agent---that is, a cyanide-based gas---which Iran was known to have. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time.<br /><br /> Saddam didn't do it
In the case of Alsadr and his militia, a victory is a complete and certain death. Or a complete and certain surrender. All on our terms, guidelines and timeline.<br /><br />A victory in Iraq is when the mission we were prompted to go there has been accomplished. <br /><br /><br />
Major, major disagreement here.<br />The President, Powell, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of the entire administration. Testified to the UN several times. They held several news conferences. Almost daily they looked the citizens in the eye and sold this action in Iraq to the people.<br />It consisted of regime change, which was a weak reason for national security. The meat of the arguement, which strongly involved national security was the WMD's.<br /> "We have strong, reliable and convincing evidence that Saddam has mobile bio/chem weapons labs."<br /> "We have strong, reliable and convincing evidence that Saddam has been buying weapons grade aluminum tubes, plutonium and is months away from developing nuculear weapons."<br /> This is black and white language.<br /><br />That language is a far cry from one or two 30 year old mortar shells that we sold him in the first place. <br /><br />
Ply, that's surely selective denial. The media is clearly involved in its own agenda.<br />Truth involves not only what you say, but also what you choose not to say. The media chooses to accentuate the negative and chooses to ignore the positive.<br />Spec.5 Gilpen, my future son-in-law's brother. His was the first CEV (Combat Engineer Vehicle) to breach the burm at the Kuwait/Iraqi border on the first night of the invasion. He spent 8 months "in country" all the way to Bagdhad airport and beyond, said to me.<br />"Never have I been as scared, the entire time I was in Iraq, as when I came back and listened to and read the news. The media has blown all aspects of this war out of context and purpose. The media is more dangerous then Saddam and is no supporter of the troops."<br /><br />Anyway Ply, I embrace my individualism to proudly to run with the Lemming crowd. <br />I still see myself as a Shark, leaving scraps for my Ramoras.
More like impeach Bush. if they can only find a weakness, and exploit it somehow!<br />If you were to read the entire 12th and final addition report instead of one sentence taken totally out of context, you'd know why....if you can find it. It would seem all media is disecting it,and regurgitating the bytes that promote thier ends, regardless of what ends they may be!<br /><br />
Again, had you read the report, you'd know that there IS no different conclusion reached.
But then, what's new about that? Alqueda attacks, blame Bush.. Abu Grieb abuses--blame Bush. adnuaseum! And BTW, it's "God", not 'god'.<br /><br />I cannot help it being a weak argument. It's a totaly lame and thinly-vieled attempt at attacking the American administration using our own intel as well as global sources to do so!<br />Sad.Really shameless. You claim "this commission was formed to find the truth", when those of us over the age of three LIVED this truth! I for one, know without a doubt that a group of muslim baboons calling themselves "Alqueda", commandeered our civilian aircraft loaded with innocent souls from around the world, and used them as weapons against my country, and now America is at war with these pukes. END OF STORY.<br />And I could care less what angered them to the level they thought it nesecarry to do so! It's not human. <br />You seem to believe the President was supposed to stop it?!<br />VERY Weak.<br /><br />You expected a commission which conducted itself like a flock of migratory birds following one or two leaders, all in formation, to go in one direction----tear-down Bush at any cost, and call it "fact-finding....Only to take the one sentence the media is reporting like another Abu Grieb today, as thier montra.<br />Not all of us are that gulable. Read it. Try this---Plug "9/11+commission+fianl+report" into yer favorite search engine, and read-up. But try to avoid the traps set by allmost EVERY source, regardless of the 'political bend' of the site.<br />Take what you will from them. I have, and will no longer debate my beliefs in my country's leadership regarding these attacks by my ememy, in this "60minutes" thread. It begins to drift-off the original subject when we drag canidates into the frey.<br />I think I'll read some more, on how you guys plan to tear-down our own government. Alqueda appauds your efforts! I don't, and wont be part of it.
You make it sound like we went to Iraq to fight Al Qaeda. That is wrong. We are fighting Iraqi's, and now that Saddam is gone, Al Qaeda AND Iraqi's. Iraqi's are not terrorists, they did not have anything to do with those "muslim baboons" that flew the planes into the two towers. But since we're there, we must be there for terrorism, since thats what the Pres. says.
Although almost every other country saw that Iraq was not terrorist related and did not help.<br /><br />And since you don't believe a word the commission says, even though they got their info from everyone involved, and nobody has stuck their neck out to say that they're wrong, is there anyone you believe when it comes to 9/11 besides the Persident? Yeah, and the fox is in the hen house to get out of the weather.<br /><br />The commission consists of politicians and was formed by politicians for political purposes.<br />If truth, fairness, sincerity or genuine positive results are the goal, the LAST person you want is a politician. <br /><br />Sitting on the commission are partys that are partly to blame for some of the problems leading up to 9/11. <br /><br />You are proving blinders are standard equipment.
