60 Minutes

[JoeW]

Did anyone catch the 60 Minutes article last night regarding the dissension among the higher brass at the pentegon with regard to the invasion of Iraq? This is comming from the some very high brass. I got me to thinking.<br />Anyway, I'm wondering what your thought are on this subject.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: 60 Minutes

Didn't see it, not sure what to think. Just hope it is not another attempt to magnify the dissentions that build within our grand nation.

 

[JB]

Re: 60 Minutes

The media is on a feeding frenzy. They will report and exaggerate anything that sounds scandalous.<br /><br />Groups NEVER all agree on everything. It is very unmilitary and disloyal for soldiers to speak to the public or the media about disagreements on policy. Civilian corporate executives would be fired in a nanosecond for that.<br /><br />Anyone who opposed policy had an obligation to convince the administration of their point of view. If they failed at that it is their failure, not the administration's.

 

[PW2]

Re: 60 Minutes

Gen Anthony Zinni said it was a poorly planned operation from the start, with poor intelligence, too few troops to get the country under control (ie stop the looting, etc).<br /><br />He said civilian heads should be held responsible, and resignations demanded. He is, of course, retired, and not involved in the original planning.<br /><br />From what I can understand, there is plenty of dissention currently within the administration, with the State department and the CIA on one side, the neo-cons on the other- with the military brass caught in the middle.<br /><br />They just raided the offices of Chalabi, and accused him of trading US secrets to the Iranians. He was the darling of the neo-cons who apparently we got a good share of our pre-war intelligence from, and whom we have been paying him and his group $350k per month. Now there is an investigation into who could have supplied Chalabi with the secrets he allegedly provided to the Iranians...Chalabi is on the current cover of Newsweek, along with a big article, saying he is a colossal con man.<br /><br />Stay tuned!!!<br /><br />All in all, a fine mess we are in, but according to the President tonite, everything is just going perfectly fine. I'm glad to know that. I never would have guessed from the available evidence.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: 60 Minutes

All these retired "top brass" like to get their name in the media, it helps in future book sales.<br /><br />Ken

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: 60 Minutes

Just recently we have had a few senior members of relevant Govt Departments speaking out saying there was Poor Stratagy, Intellegance, Planning.<br />Before the show got on the road, a very senior member of intellegance was only able to speak out by resigning first. I believe he said the intellegance he recieved and passed to the Govt was changed after it left his desk, and his desk was the last best before the Govt.<br />Something seems to be changing down here.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[Carphunter]

Re: 60 Minutes

PW2, move to Iraq.

 

[PW2]

Re: 60 Minutes

Move to Iraq, huh?<br /><br />That's the best argument you can come up with?<br /><br />Here's Bush's opportunity to do a little flip-flopping of his own, get rid of the people giving him bad advice, and put someone like Powell in charge of getting us out of this mess, and give him what he needs and get out of the way.<br /><br />The problem with being "steadfast" and "staying the course", as any sailor knows, is that it is only helpful and effective if you are on the proper course already. If you are off course, you are likely to end up on the rocks or somewhere else you did not want to be, no matter what the good intentions were.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Re: 60 Minutes

PW2,,,, Plywoody! I knew it!!

 

[JoeW]

Re: 60 Minutes

Plywoody,<br />It would seem that everyone has his own idea of what the proper course is. What makes you think that Powell's course would be any different than Bush's? Is Bush not the commander in chief? Are there more important things for Bush to deal with?<br /><br />It never ceases to amaze me how many armchair generals and chatroom diplomats this subject creates. <br /><br />Bush said the war on terror would be hard. It's a pain in the a$$. He said it would be long. It seems it will never end. Seems to me the only thing Bush is guilty of is understatement.

 

[PW2]

Re: 60 Minutes

There are indeed more important things for Bush to deal with. Like the war on terror, and the threats around the world that this country faces. (to keep it in the foreign policy realm). Iraq was a distraction in the war on terror, and we need to somehow put it behind us in some sort of credible way.<br /><br />And I have no doubt that Powell's course would have been vastly different from the current one.<br /><br />Powell is a skilled, experienced diplomat, who unfortunately seems to be too often ignored.<br /><br />Frankly, I think we are in a crucial situation regarding Iraq right now, and we need a skilled diplomatic effort to enlist the rest of the world to help us solve it. If we botch this up now, I don't think it is going to matter much who is elected president next November, at least regarding Iraq.<br /><br />It would be easy, of course, to simply say "I told you so" re Iraq, but the effort now needs to somehow succeed, and I am simply trying to offer a positive approach to what may be an unsolvable problem.<br /><br />Tell me you don't think that somehow a Jeffersonian democracy is going to spring out of what is currently going on in Iraq??? The president, in his speech the other nite, seems to think this, and we really need someone in there with a little bit better grip on reality.

 

[knobby]

Re: 60 Minutes

Finally, someone tells the truth, thank PW

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: 60 Minutes

yeah, thanx PW - for this deja-moo <br /><br />its nice we have such help from a critical thinker like yourself... too bad you're totally oblivious to the war on terror. if you can't figure out why iraq is part of that, there is no use explaining it to you. didn't you post you were considering hiding in your closet if we went into iraq? i think you should be considering that the terrorists we contain in iraq might just cut the percentage on them eventually finding you in the closet

 

[JoeW]

Re: 60 Minutes

Plywoody,<br />It would seem that you drank more than your fair share of the liberal cool-aid. What strange halucinations it does cause. To think that we could effectively combat terrorist cells while the largest single threat to US security sat untouched and ignored, as if we couldn't even see it, truely requires some twists of logic. Is it a euphoric as well?<br /><br />Purhaps we should have just asked Saddam whether he was sponsoring any terrorist organizations. After all, he was an upstanding leader right? <br /><br />You shouldn't mix the crack with the cool-aid. <br /><br />As I've said all along, I believe this is less of an anti-war campaign by the left, as it is an anti-Bush campaign. The same actions taken by a Democratic president would have yielded nothing like the dessent we are now seeing by the left. <br />The democrats have lost control of the legislature, the executive, and the judiciary. They are desparate and will now grasp at anything in order to regain some power, including work toward the demise of our actions in Iraqi in order to make Bush look bad and lose the election. <br /><br />So what does the left hate about Bush?<br />1. He's a Republican.<br />2. He narrowly won (or "stole" as they say) the election and many are still upset about this.<br />3. He exhibits Christian values. Any sign of Christianity is despised by the left. <br />4. He says what he means in simple terms without mixing words. His words leave little room for backpeddling or redefinition. <br />5. He exhibits simple mannerisms and uncomplex values consistant with the majority of the American population. He's a cowboy! These values are seen as unsophisticated. They are an embarrassment to the left. They would prefer a more elitist president.<br /><br />Many on the left would like to portray GWB as stupid, dumb or simple minded. The problem with that portrayal is that they were all too willing to place a democrat in office who's grades in college (Harvard) were not as high as Bush's. Also working against this notion is the fact that Bush has surrounded himself with people who's IQs are beyond reproach. How does a liberal justify, for example, criticising the appointment of an African American, female of impeccable intellegence and credentials to the post of national security advisor? Simply because she happens to be conservative? This would hardly seem like an objective stance now would it? Her intellegence and diligence also makes it quite difficult to criticise her actions/policies. What liberal can compete with Condi Rice? <br /><br />Life is becoming more difficult for liberals, and they are becoming desparate because of that difficulty. Unfortunately, we haven't seen the end of it. If you think the whining will end with US withdrawal from Iraq, think again.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: 60 Minutes

Yea what joe said.<br />If it wasn't Iraq, it would be something else.<br />Time for some to take the blinders off. IMO.

 

[rolmops]

Re: 60 Minutes

I think that this thread has once again turned into a bashing of liberal values and rational thought.<br />Also the implication that republicans have a monopoly on christian feelings and behavior is an insult to many good christian liberals.(they will probably forgive you).<br />To analize a situation like plywoody did, even complimenting members of the Bush administration is very different from attacking him,right or wrong, simply because he is a liberal.<br />Please let us try to lift the discussion to a more civilized and rationalistic level!!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 60 Minutes

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> I think that this thread has once again turned into a bashing of liberal values and rational thought.

I present the paragon of liberal values and rational thought!<br /><br />

<br /><br />Algore, today, in a POLITICAL Bush bashing speech sponsored by that well balanced PAC, MoveOn.org

 

[rolmops]

Re: 60 Minutes

That was Al Gore not Plywoody, anyway what do you have to say about all the rest of my comment?

 

[TPD211]

Re: 60 Minutes

I'm reading a Tom Clancy book on the attacks into Iraq during the Clinton administration. <br />Interesting reading so far, I think the book takes us up to present day as in GB.<br />Its titled Battle Ready and is a accounting of retired General Tony Zinni.<br /><br />It gives me some interesting insights pre-9/11.<br /><br />Go to your local library and check it out....

 

[12Footer]

Re: 60 Minutes

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> I think that this thread has once again turned into a bashing of liberal values and rational thought.

the phrases, "liberal values" and "rational thought" in the same sentence = oxymoron.<br /><br />

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /><br />Also the implication that republicans have a monopoly on christian feelings and behavior is an insult to many good christian liberals.(they will probably forgive you).

I hate to break it to you, but they truely do.<br />Not all Christians are conservatives,sure. but the vast majority are in fact. I don't know why, but I have my theories.<br />

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /><br />To analize a situation like plywoody did, even complimenting members of the Bush administration is very different from attacking him,right or wrong, simply because he is a liberal.<br />Please let us try to lift the discussion to a more civilized and rationalistic level!!

Amen to that. PW has some whacky ideas, but he has every right to voice them.<br /><br />As for 60 minutes, it is what to expect from the other side's propaganda machine. Why even bother to watch it? I don't bother wathing Dan Blather iether,for the same reasons.<br />Ask yourself if these people are serving the best intrest of your country, or even those of the Iraqis for that matter.<br />I smell Tokyo Rose on CBS,NBC,ABC,PBS,Aljazeeeeeeeera,CNN,MSNBC, ect..And Fox is the other side of the pendulum. I wish we had some source that reported the news, all the news, and just the news, but we don't.We have biased ,agenda-based propaganda spin machines in full speed ahead mode.<br />Support the troops.