1979 Glastron Carlson CV-23 restoration

[docmirror]

With a jet, one is limited to the amount of water we can suck. Yes, that is the limiting factor of a water jet. The way it works, there's a point on the intake side of the pump that is a low pressure area. At some torque applied, the pressure of the water will get so low it will turn to water vapor(state change) and then there's no way to push any water through the impeller and compress it.

There are a very few limited cases where a jet boat has gone over 120MPH. The intake is as high flow, and low restriction as possible. Everything has to be smooth as glass, and no sharp corners or rough spots. Most stock jet boats will run out of steam(no pun intended) right about 90MPH, with a good clean intake and no grate to start the disruption.

At this point, I'm looking at the money part of the rebuild. I got the boat for $1000 incl the trailer. I've spent $200 on the trailer getting it ready. The engine is going to be about $3300, and the FG work will be at least $5000. By the time I get to the interior work, I'm gonna be well upside down on the value of the boat. Oh well. At least it will be almost like new when done.

I checked out the hull today. All the rot is gone, and he's going to start cutting and fitting today.

 

[docmirror]

Been a delay, as the FG guy does other jobs at the marina. He's got jobs in the water that are higher priority than mine, and I'm ok with that. I would rather have finely detailed well done work than a rush job. I won't be in the water until next May.

OK, on the engine, I've decided to compromise I am not building the huge engine as before, but I have found a cast stroke crank and rods for a reasonable fee. Adding $1260 for the rebuild now that the engine is out is a decent return. I will only be going to 496CI, and 30 over bore which should get me about 65-80HP over stock, or 370-ish. This is just enough to push the B impeller and will allow for reasonable low speed economy and still get a decent top end with the Place Diverter set to best angle.

While the boat is down and waiting for the hull work, I'm going to pull the jet apart, and clean it up real well inside. It won't be fully polished but it will be a lot smoother than it is now. I'm also going sans intake grate, and new wear ring, along with the place diverter. I'm hoping for at least 60MPH with a light load on the boat. I'll be happy with that. Back in the late 60s and into the 70s the builders were churning out these boats and pumps, and engines by the truckload. There are some details I'm seeing now that were obvious building mistakes, but they were let go as it was a rush time for speed boat production.

The engine has hyperutectic pistons, and steel freeze plugs. It's a sealed distributor for marine use, and the old carb was a marine sealed Rochester, so with the updates to jet, hull, and engine I will be well ahead of bone stock from 79.

Wood is being cut, and trimmed and fitted. It's interesting work, and I am quite sure I would take 8x as long to do this work, and it would be junk my first try through. I'm happy to pay someone with wood and FG skills where it counts. My last FG repair was the lid for a pool filter. It lasted 2 seasons before it split again. Sigh.

As with other posts, here's some side info. If you are a woodworker you MAY recognize something similar to the last 2 pics you've seen before. But - only if you are older than the now dead Queen. The logo is a dead giveaway that yes, this is indeed an original ShopSmith. The ShopSmith company history is a long drawn out tale of woe, and fits and starts. It began after WWII as Magna power tool, and went through several hands along the way.

Now, on to my specific machine. Magna machine tool sold or merged, or dropped the multi-tool product in the early 60s. The model I have is a Mark VII. The most common of the vintage units are Mk V. The V stood for the 5 different woodworking jobs the base machine could perform. Natch - the Mk VII could do 7 wood shaping jobs. It was the uprated version of the standard and came with things like a vacuum on board, and even an air compressor attachment. Other attachments came along until the number of different woodworking tools was up to about 15. Jig saw, shaper, planer, joiner, babbit, drill press, and so on.

I have two of them. The first I bought for $300, in working condition with a ton of accessories like the planer, joiner, and jig saw as well as the compressor, and drill chuck. The second one I bought for $100 and towed a way. It needed some catch up work including bearings and motor brushes but has done yeoman work as a drill press for months. the other unit is setup as a table saw, and jig saw for tight cuts on the plywood.

Rather amazing machines, and have stood the test of time as they are very tough built with a lot of heavy steel, no plastic, and robust bearings and quality materials all around. Built in the US of course. There is still a large closet market for the vintage machines, and ShopSmith is still in business with a digital power head, one can buy right now.

 

[docmirror]

Trouble in yacht paradise. The big boat was bought knowing that the aftercoolers have not been worked on recently. One of the first jobs I wanted done was a cleaning of the raw water loop system and inspection of the aftercooler inserts or elements.

If you don't know what an aftercooler is, the exh drives the turbine wheel of the turbocharger, the impeller wheel draws in fresh air, and that air gets hot under compression. From the impeller of the turbo the air goes into the canister of the aftercooler, and the raw water goes around the air tubes cooling the intake air a lot. Then the air goes through the intake valve and combusted with diesel fuel. It's similar to an intercooler but the exchange media is raw water.

The left intercooler element is fine, but the right one shows some tube damage. Any cross contamination would allow compressed intake air into the raw water system, or worse - raw water into the intake air under very low pressure conditions. Both are seriously bad. The core of the unit looks like it's beyond economic repair and I'll need to replace it. $1400 plus labor.

Oh well, no one said it was going to be cheap. At least I'll have peace of mind knowing the raw water system has been cleaned and de-scaled, along with a new core. The raw water needs to be de-scaled every 2-3 years depending on the water condition. It's a job I will learn to do and next time during one of my leisure trips down there, I'll do the de-scale job myself. However, other repairs I'm still planning to 'pay the guy' and just enjoy the boat.

 

[zool]

You have the 3126's in there? At least checking the aftercoolers is a maintenance item like every 1000 hrs. Its good u caught it before any damage, Keep clean air, oil, and keep them cool and they should treat u well.

My slip neighbor's new to him Egg Harbor has the 3116's and his tank got diesel bug from sitting, he spent the last 3 weeks cleaning everything out and runs an oil polishing system. He was finally able to spend a day offshore for the 1st time this season.

My admiral wants me to ditch the 330 Sundancer already, and get an Aft cabin. I dont want to run diesels so I said ill watch for a SR 370 Aft with 454's. Same boat as the 420 but less strain on the gassers. She also loved the Carver 53 voyager with the sky lounge as in place of the lower helm, but like you said, thats a whole new ball game.

 

[docmirror]

No Cats, I have the Yanmar 6LYA engines. Diesel algae(it's not really algae of course) is a definite problem with boats that sit. And - a lot of boats sit for long times. I'm going to add a biocide with the next fuel up. I wish I had sample ports on the bottom of the tanks like we have on planes. Can drain any water out. Of course, I have a water separator, but only works when the boat is running.

As for gassers, I will respectfully disagree, and strongly at that. We drove 3 37-40ft boats with big GM gassers and I decided to pay extra for twin diesels. The same 37 aft cabin with 8.1 Crusaders would do about 26kts at 5100. Yanmar diesels wide open was about 29kts with 5 people had 3/4 fuel. No one runs wide open of course, but the diesels were much preferred to us for the economy. The one downside is it's a bit noisy in the salon with the diesels. Underway my wife likes to sit in the aft deck with the side doors open. Good breeze, fairly quiet and it's super stable back there on moderately rough seas.

Gas boats are for speed, and lake cruising. Offshore, almost no one uses gas except the boats that never leave the marina slip. I drove a Silverton 392 with twin Merc 8.2 and it was a complete dog. Even after we had the bottom cleaned, and all the barnacles removed it would barely do 20Kts. That mistake cost me $400. Either the 370 or 420 aft cabin would do much better with any diesel over gas.

 

[zool]

No Cats, I have the Yanmar 6LYA engines. Diesel algae(it's not really algae of course) is a definite problem with boats that sit. And - a lot of boats sit for long times. I'm going to add a biocide with the next fuel up. I wish I had sample ports on the bottom of the tanks like we have on planes. Can drain any water out. Of course, I have a water separator, but only works when the boat is running.

As for gassers, I will respectfully disagree, and strongly at that. We drove 3 37-40ft boats with big GM gassers and I decided to pay extra for twin diesels. The same 37 aft cabin with 8.1 Crusaders would do about 26kts at 5100. Yanmar diesels wide open was about 29kts with 5 people had 3/4 fuel. No one runs wide open of course, but the diesels were much preferred to us for the economy. The one downside is it's a bit noisy in the salon with the diesels. Underway my wife likes to sit in the aft deck with the side doors open. Good breeze, fairly quiet and it's super stable back there on moderately rough seas.

Gas boats are for speed, and lake cruising. Offshore, almost no one uses gas except the boats that never leave the marina slip. I drove a Silverton 392 with twin Merc 8.2 and it was a complete dog. Even after we had the bottom cleaned, and all the barnacles removed it would barely do 20Kts. That mistake cost me $400. Either the 370 or 420 aft cabin would do much better with any diesel over gas.

Right, But mine will sit at the dock 90% of the time, the 454s will sit heathier that diesels, which like to be ran. Maintenance, and replacement costs dont outway any fuel burn for a dock queen. I'd rather run outboards offshore, which is really the only time I go any real distance is fishing. I drove the sundancer about 5 miles this season, I put about 50 hrs on my Center console.

If ur gonna cruise her, than the yanmars suit ur needs better, as will dock handling.

 

[kcassells]

Right, But mine will sit at the dock 90% of the time, the 454s will sit heathier that diesels, which like to be ran. Maintenance, and replacement costs dont outway any fuel burn for a dock queen. I'd rather run outboards offshore, which is really the only time I go any real distance is fishing. I drove the sundancer about 5 miles this season, I put about 50 hrs on my Center console.

If ur gonna cruise her, than the yanmars suit ur needs better, as will dock handling.

How come yor
clock ain't tickin nomo? Idundid like dat it.

 

[zool]

How come yor
clock ain't tickin nomo? Idundid like dat it.

When they changed the website I think gifs stopped working, i dont think Bondo's engine cranks anymo either......

 

[Baylinerchuck]

If you can get to a fuel tank port, you can take a sample off the bottom of the tank with a fuel tank bottom sampler. It’s basically a clear tube, with a hand actuated vacuum pump. You can also send in fuel samples to Blackstone Laboratories and have them tested. It’s good to know what you’re dealing with, and the turnaround is pretty quick. If you can keep water out of the fuel, microbes won’t have an environment to grow.

 

[docmirror]

Mini update. FG guy is a no show again. He's left a bunch of power tools, so unless he's giving them all away, he'll be back. I've been pricing out engine bits, and looking at perf tweaks. I may still go with a stroke crank and rods. We'll see how it goes.

As for the yachet, the guy said he's working on the aftercoolers and cleaning stuff up. May not be too bad on cost. I ordered fuel filters just in case, and have the biocide on the way.

 

[docmirror]

Well, FG guy is back in hangar. He's grinding and sanding, and cutting and drilling. I'm gonna just leave him alone and get along with the engine and pump work. I'll go down on Fri and see if there's some picture worthy stuff.

 

[docmirror]

OK, have some news from the marina on the ya-chet boat. After buying it, I'm learning a ton about large cruiser boats. We were expecting more maint cost, and I'm trying to do this smart. Well, sort of anyway. I got a marine mech, and asked him to take a look at the aftercoolers(raw water cooled turbocharged air injected into the engine). They need regular cleaning or inspection or it can wreck an engine very quickly if either side leaks. Water to air, or air to water. Air to water isn't too bad, but water into the intake air is very very bad.

He pulled the canisters and both of them need cleaning very much. So far, the cores are considered serviceable but well past due for cleaning. So, they are coming apart, and being flushed, and the lines are all being flushed as well. The mech advised, and I agreed with the assessment that when he sees this in the aftercoolers, it's a stone cold fact that the raw impellers and heat exchangers need cleaning and flushing too. So, we're doing all the raw water stuff at one shot.

Aftercoolers, impellers, intake strainer, heat exchanger, and lines. This is the time to do it so I don't run into a water exchange issue later. He found one galv pipe connection that has to be replaced, but other than that, he's very happy with the overall condition of the Yanmars.

There's also something called a post-strainer filtration system and he's getting a price on that. We may want to go with a post strain filter. I told him I was thinking of a post-run flush setup where I could flow fresh dock water through the raw water side after use. That would displace sea-water with fresh dock water during long set times. He'd never heard of that, but said in a case where there is unlimited fresh water avail, he's going to see what it would take to plumb valve and lines to the high water point of the aftercooler stacks.

Anyone ever heard of a post-run fresh water flush system?

 

[docmirror]

Sigh, FG guy was away since Sunday. Hasn't done much work. He's just wasting time now. I'm at the point where I want to fire him and try to finish it myself. I'll give him one more try, this wknd and if he doesn't get it done, I'm finished with it and will find someone else or do it myself.

 

[docmirror]

And - he's fired. After 13 days work(?), which would be about 100 hours labor the job is barely past the cleaning, ripping and board cutting phase. He's just working me over for $450/day, and not accomplishing much of anything. Either I get a new repair guy, or dig into it myself. Useless POS cost me thousands, and delayed for more than a month. He's done.

 

[tpenfield]

Following . . .

Too bad about the fiberglass guy, but not all that surprising. You may be best to do the job yourself. Half the battle is telling yourself that you CAN do it!

Read up on the restoration forums where glassing is discussed extensively. IMO - the secret to good glassing is to let the resin 'soak out' through the fiberglass cloth, not 'soak in'.

 

[docmirror]

Following . . .

Too bad about the fiberglass guy, but not all that surprising. You may be best to do the job yourself. Half the battle is telling yourself that you CAN do it!

Read up on the restoration forums where glassing is discussed extensively. IMO - the secret to good glassing is to let the resin 'soak out' through the fiberglass cloth, not 'soak in'.

If you want to spend a few electrons and explain the soak out not in method, I'm willing to use it. I will be doing some work on Wed, will take some pics of where he left it, and get started on wood fitting and glass as I can,

 

[zool]

If you want to spend a few electrons and explain the soak out not in method, I'm willing to use it. I will be doing some work on Wed, will take some pics of where he left it, and get started on wood fitting and glass as I can,

What you want to do is wet out the surface with resin, then press the cloth onto it, then dab or roll more resin over it. the resin will wick up thru the cloth. giving a complete bond with little dry spots.

 

[tpenfield]

If you want to spend a few electrons and explain the soak out not in method, I'm willing to use it. I will be doing some work on Wed, will take some pics of where he left it, and get started on wood fitting and glass as I can,

Happy to describe what I mean.

Often folks apply some amount of resin to the area being glassed, apply the fiberglass cloth to the area, and then try to soak the remaining amount of resin needed 'in to' the cloth. Thus the 'soak in' method.

This works fine with lower density cloths like CSM (Chopped Strand Mat) and even WR (Woven Roving) to an extent.

With stitched bi-axial cloths (Like 1708) the fiberglass strands are much more dense and trying to soak resin 'in' from the outside of the cloth usually traps air within the cloth. Removing the trapped air takes time and usually leads to a poor 'wetting' of the cloth.

As an alternative method, you can apply a generous amount of resin to the back side of the cloth (in addition to applying a generous amount of resin to the area being glassed. Once you place the cloth on the area (stringer, tabbing, bulkhead, etc), there is already enough resin on the back side of the cloth that no additional resin should be needed. It becomes a matter of rolling the cloth (with resin roller or similar device), which then brings the resin from behind the cloth 'out' to the surface. This action forces all of the air out of the cloth, since it has an easy exit.

You will tend to be able to do better and quicker, when glassing stringers and bulkheads to the hull. A well-wetted fiberglass cloth will be practically clear, having the most adhesion and strength possible.

Here is a strip of 1708 cloth applied to the stringer of my boat using the 'soak out' method. It was easy to apply and the resin completely saturated the cloth with a quick wipe with a putty blade - no rolling or extra resin needed.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Happy to describe what I mean.

Often folks apply some amount of resin to the area being glassed, apply the fiberglass cloth to the area, and then try to soak the remaining amount of resin needed 'in to' the cloth. Thus the 'soak in' method.

This works fine with lower density cloths like CSM (Chopped Strand Mat) and even WR (Woven Roving) to an extent.

With stitched bi-axial cloths (Like 1708) the fiberglass strands are much more dense and trying to soak resin 'in' from the outside of the cloth usually traps air within the cloth. Removing the trapped air takes time and usually leads to a poor 'wetting' of the cloth.

As an alternative method, you can apply a generous amount of resin to the back side of the cloth (in addition to applying a generous amount of resin to the area being glassed. Once you place the cloth on the area (stringer, tabbing, bulkhead, etc), there is already enough resin on the back side of the cloth that no additional resin should be needed. It becomes a matter of rolling the cloth (with resin roller or similar device), which then brings the resin from behind the cloth 'out' to the surface. This action forces all of the air out of the cloth, since it has an easy exit.

You will tend to be able to do better and quicker, when glassing stringers and bulkheads to the hull. A well-wetted fiberglass cloth will be practically clear, having the most adhesion and strength possible.

Here is a strip of 1708 cloth applied to the stringer of my boat using the 'soak out' method. It was easy to apply and the resin completely saturated the cloth with a quick wipe with a putty blade - no rolling or extra resin needed.

View attachment 371599

Bubble buster rollers work well for laying glass when using this method.

 

[JASinIL2006]

@tpenfield speaketh the truth.