1970's Aluminum Mckenzie Cherokee Runabout Rebuild

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Thanks Jig.

I picked up the rivets this morning.

I dipped the dome head into 5200 and inserted the mandrel into the rivet tool.

The first two attempts with three pumps and the mandrel broke-off leaving a hole in the center.

Third attempt was two pumps but the mandrel didn't break off.



Since the rivet feels set and snug I didn't think a good idea to attempt to break the steel mandrel. Instead I cut the mandrel top at the dome leaving a small nub.

The original rivets do not have an indent similar to the new rivets. I thought the dome heads were solid?



When the rivet is set I assumed the rivet tool would cut the mandrel? Perhaps I have the wrong size rivet? Tough to see clearly but the underside actually looks good leaving with 1/4 inch showing.

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

2 different types of rivets... the ones used in original construction were "bucked" (with the dome heads - no dimple)...

You can install those, but when you are working by yourself, they can be hard to install (unless you have really long arms) because you have to have access to the other side of where you are banging the rivet...

Your pop rivets should leave a little dimple on the top... the mandrel should break off just below the surface... If the mandrel sticks out a little bit after breaking off, that's not what your after (and you maybe using too much grip range)...

Also, sometimes you get a stubborn rivet and you have to work the gun at a bit of angle to get a good "grab" and break it off. The mandrel is set to break when you've tugged on it hard enough to get the underside to swell out the right amount. If the mandrel has not broken, you might not have it set well enough...

I would drill it out (it doesn't hurt anything) and re-do...

I'm not a rivet master by any means (although I did sort of coin the term REEEEVITS), so JIG and others will come along and help if I have mistated anything...

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Hey J, those closed end blind rivets are a very strong/tough rivet and setting the 3/16" dia. with the regular setting tool is pretty hard at the beginning until you build up your grip. The rivet tool doesn't cut the mandrel, it's designed with a weak spot on the mandrel just above the ball that flares the rivet that breaks off when the rivet is completely set. You've got to keep squeezing on the handles until the mandrel breaks off with a popping sound, but with the closed end rivets it's more like a BANG than a popping sound. The mandrel breaks off down inside the rivet and leaves a hole in the top of the rivet when the rivet is properly set and the mandrel is popped off.

I had a bunch of these rivets to set when I installed the angle on my hatch lids. I couldn't set more than 6 in a row before my hands would get tired and my grip would weaken and I couldn't squeeze the handles hard enough to pop the mandrel off and I'd have to take a break to get my grip back when I first started setting them... it takes that much effort.

These rivets are much easier to set with the big heavy duty rivet setting tool:
Heavy Duty 17-1/2" Hand Riveter With Collection Bottle
You can get more leverage and use your arm muscles instead of your hand muscles.

As for the little hole that's left in the top of the rivet after the mandrel pops off, you can fill them with a dab of marine epoxy or 3M 5200 for a flush solid look if you don't like the way they look and to more closely match your other rivets.

 

[lakelover]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

This thread is a great riveting school. That heavy duty gun in jig's link looks like the thing to have if you have the room to use it. The price is right too. I'm always leery of Harbor Freight, but if it doesn't last, you haven't paid much for it either. I bought a $20 sander there and it's still going strong, you just never know. You'll need a smaller gun with a head that angles for tight spaces.

I have an Arrow hand riveting tool and found that after the first few, I had to start using two hands because of the effort required. I also had some rivets where the mandrel wouldn't break off, just remove & try it again with a new one.

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Thanks PMC, Jig and LL.

Jig - I have the tool mentioned in your post. It works well.

On my first two attempts using three pumps the mandrel broke off completely leaving a hole in the center of the rivet.

My thrid attmept using two pumps and the mandrel did not break off. Instead I removed the mandrel manually leaving a small nub.

I will give er another shot this evening but as PMC mentioned perhaps the grip range is too tall?

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

I have used the Harbor Freight tool in my build...

Every now and then it gets jammed up, but it is very easy to dis-assemble and re-assemble (to get it working again)... The 3/16 rivets usually break after 2 to 3 pulls..

I bought the arrow tool with the swivel head because I wanted for hard to reach places (under my consoles, etc...)... It made it through about 4 puny 1/8 rivets before it bit the dust... Was very disappointed..

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

I have used the Harbor Freight tool in my build...

Every now and then it gets jammed up, but it is very easy to dis-assemble and re-assemble (to get it working again)... The 3/16 rivets usually break after 2 to 3 pulls..

I bought the arrow tool with the swivel head because I wanted for hard to reach places (under my consoles, etc...)... It made it through about 4 puny 1/8 rivets before it bit the dust... Was very disappointed..

In terms of the rivet tool should I be using the 3/16" mandrel holder nut? There are several sizes but I just assumed I should be using 3/16"?

 

[submariner1980]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

I'm follow you with my project McKenzie CHEROKEE 1973 bow rider. Have no idea how to post picture.:facepalm:

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

I will give er another shot this evening but as PMC mentioned perhaps the grip range is too tall?

If your grip range is too long the mandrel will break off outside of the head and leave a nub on the shorter rivets like you're using, that's why selecting the proper grip range is important.

In terms of the rivet tool should I be using the 3/16" mandrel holder nut?

Yes, this is another important part for having your rivets to set properly. Not using the correct mandrel nut on the setting tool can cause problems with the mandrel breaking off correctly and could cause the mandrel to break off outside of the rivet.

When setting the rivet, keep pumping the setting tool until the mandrel breaks off. Some rivets take more pumps than others to break off and sometimes it's not the rivet but the setting tool instead. If the "grips" inside the setting tool become clogged with bits of mandrel from setting other rivets the grips will slip on the mandrel causing you to use more pumps to set a rivet. If this is happening you should take your setting tool apart and clean the debris from the grips and the tool will work better.

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

If your grip range is too long the mandrel will break off outside of the head and leave a nub on the shorter rivets like you're using, that's why selecting the proper grip range is important.



Yes, this is another important part for having your rivets to set properly. Not using the correct mandrel nut on the setting tool can cause problems with the mandrel breaking off correctly and could cause the mandrel to break off outside of the rivet.

When setting the rivet, keep pumping the setting tool until the mandrel breaks off. Some rivets take more pumps than others to break off and sometimes it's not the rivet but the setting tool instead. If the "grips" inside the setting tool become clogged with bits of mandrel from setting other rivets the grips will slip on the mandrel causing you to use more pumps to set a rivet. If this is happening you should take your setting tool apart and clean the debris from the grips and the tool will work better.

Thanks Jig.

Have you had a mandrel break off completely leaving a hole in the center of the rivet? What does this mean?

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

On the third pump the mandrel broke off in the center leaving a hole ... again.

Looked on the box and the spec says .375.

I will order the .125 to .250 grip range.

Should the rivet sit firm in the hole before setting the rivet? What if it's a little 'loosey goosey'?

Maybe I should get some 1/4 inch" too?

Have a good one eh!

 

[submariner1980]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Here is good link for riveting education How Blind Rivets Work & Rivet Head Styles: Blind Riveting Systems: GESIPA Fasteners USA

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

I'm follow you with my project McKenzie CHEROKEE 1973 bow rider. Have no idea how to post picture.:facepalm:

Photo and image hosting, free photo galleries, photo editing

 

[submariner1980]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Hope it's right now

 

[submariner1980]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Thank you Jig, Thank you Jhendery. I've clicking all those icons almost 20 hours, then re read Jig post and whoops!

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Picked up new rivets this morning with .125 to .250 grip range. Hopefully these should work better! Will try er out this evening!

Things to do ...

- replace leaky rivets
- apply Marine Tek G-Flex to ALL rivets

That should keep me busy for a while. Also need to get started with trailer bunks. Will take a picture this evening ...

Have a good one eh!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

- apply Marine Tek G-Flex to ALL rivets

You do plan to do this on the inside of the boat and not the outside eh?

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

+1. Any sealant you plan on applying should only ever be applied on the interior of the hull, never the outside.

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

You do plan to do this on the inside of the boat and not the outside eh?

Well the Gluvit was applied to the inside last summer. Yeah I know it's been awhile. I haven't decided, I may do a second coat.

Anyway the West Systems G/Flex is going to be applied to the outside rivets. This is the procedure I plan to follow.

West System G-Flex Epoxy! - YouTube

WEST SYSTEM | Metal Boat Repair - Fix leaking seams in aluminum boats with G/flex 650

 

[jhendery]

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Re: 1970's 16 ft Aluminum Mackenzie Runabout Rebuild

Just a quick update on the rivets ... I installed 7 of the .250 grip range rivets tonight.

Two pumps and the mandrel broke off nicely leaving a small indent in the center of the rivet. I think around 1/8" deep before the bottom. I don't like the idea the mandrel is exposed but I dabbed a little 5200 in the center.

Now onto the trailer. I have a galvanized trailer that I want to install bunks.



Bass Pro Shops have trailer brackets. I am thinking they would install something like this





I mounted the bracket at the stern on the starboard side to get an idea how things would line up. So I think two brackets on both starboard and port sides with bunks installed on top. What do you think? Not sure where on the hull the bunks should line up? Ideas?