Who do U BLAME

ArtB

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Re: Who do U BLAME

waterinthe fuel, JasonJ and Pogo have it right. They have met the enemy and he are us!
 

JB

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Re: Who do U BLAME

Blaming is an exercise in losing.

A simple case study in world market economics.
 

gonefishie

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Re: Who do U BLAME

Then comes the American auto makers. They are in bed with big oil for sure or there would be a lot more alternative models available. We have the technology, just not the motivation. What they need is a Clue. If they want to survive and thrive, they have to step up their R&D on alternatives. If they don't, they're running on borowed time. If they don't find some leadership with vision, they're all doomed.

I can't argue Pointer's point. Just about every poltician is in somebody's pocket. Most are in a lot of pockets. :mad:

There is car running on hydrogen, all battery and hybrid. But these don't sell well because American still wants nothing less then big and fast vehicle. The infrastructure needed to completely change our vehicle fuel requirement is too much to realize in our lifetime, 3-4 generations from now maybe. Hydrogen cost too much to produce and it's exhaust is water. It would be an SOB in the winter time if every vehicle on the road discharging water onto the road.
 

rwise

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Re: Who do U BLAME

I blame everyone that buys products that say "made in china"!!!
 

Fly Rod

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Re: Who do U BLAME

I LOVE MY SUV and 8 CYLINDER TRUCK!!!

There is even a city here in Mass. that wants to double the excise tax on SUV's. That will not pass. The American way, blame one group of vehicles for all the gas guzzling. Let's not blame the city buses, big 8 cylinder vehicles. Just another way for struggling cities to get tax dollars.
 

POINTER94

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Re: Who do U BLAME

All the usual suspects. Yep, "Big Oil and the automakers". A well known perpetrator of gas guzzlers and the dependance conspiracy without one shred of evidence. I guess the propeller mfg'rs have a conspiracy against the sailmakers too.

There are subsidies for alternative vehicles, and money available for research from the government. But the politicians are all in the bag with the conspiracy. Then there is the magic technology that the "rich" (whoever that is) know about but won't share with the mass's. Then there is hydrogen. Does anyone know what gas is the greatest contributor to the so called global warming effect? Water Vapor! So let's just add a billion or so water vapor generators to the highways and watch AlGore smirk.

There is no magic bullet. There is a mix of technologies, that will contribute. We need to stop wasting our energy on fixing the blame and start addressing the problem. Start with building more refineries. Standardize on one mixture for fuel so that what few refineries we have can produce a single product instead of boutique fuels for those who think they are "smarter" than the rest. See MBTE. As I said from day one, Ethanol isn't, never was, and is a political boondoggle for politicians to say they are doing something, while sucking up to the farm lobby. We don't need something, we need something that works. We are working on wind in a big way, I was encouraged by the step towards tital generators, Nuclear (but there are some who won't ever admit they were wrong), Bio-diesel, geothermic, solar. The absolute most difficult to change with regards to infrastructure, portability, efficiency, effectiveness, is the auto. Start by taking this class warfare target off the front burner and placing it on the back, not off, as it will benefit from the advancements in the other fields as they are integrated. Cities can utilized current technolgy in their mass transit, municipal vehicles, portable equipment as they typically have a fixed range of usage. The auto maker who makes a vehicle that gets 100mpg will own the market. Period.

As said earlier, this is not a quantity issue, it is a distribution and refining issue. I also think that the speculators are profiting on this as well. Politicians while not actually dirty, are sending us down dead ends with their santa claus mentality. But hey, its their money, right Hillary. Todays issues will be different from tommorrows issues and addressing them in an educated and scientific way will pay off in spades. One building off another.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Who do U BLAME

That's right, blame yourselves for the artificial shortages conjured to make record profits......
Bow down to the Gods & thank them....
There names are Exxon/Mobil, BP, Shell...et al.....
Blindly accept that your way of life has to change to insure that their bottom line keeps them record profits......
TR did something about it.......
Why can't today's leaders at least try.....
Better than just throwing your hands in the air like a bunch of surrender monkeys & just accepting it......:p
 

POINTER94

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Re: Who do U BLAME

I fail to see how surrendering our freedoms, and reverting to communism is a step in the right direction. This situation is absolutely perfect to the visionary and the scientist. Bill Gates CREATED an industry that didn't even exist outside of think tanks and government defense agencies, and put one in everyones home, office, heck even car. He is now, just a couple of decades later, the richest man in the world. Imagine the leg up the inventor of an engine that gets 100mpg or 200mpg would have with the already existing market with the billions of units already in use.

Failing to understand the financial and human resources already working on this situation is no reason to discard the tennants that this country was founded upon. Technology will drive this change, not government. You cannot legislate a new power source, only take away freedoms. Who is actually the surrender monkey? You can CHOOSE to not drive, or use oil. Once government gets their hooks into an INDUSTRY, you have no choices at all. You will conform comrad. Failure to do so will get you a ticket to a "re-education" facility. Considering the number of lunatics that think the government drove planes into the WTC, do you really want this body in control of your entire life???? And if what you believe is true, then government is the ONLY answer to gouging? Thats sad.

As I have shares in oil companies, I guess you will be bowing down to me. Hey, Mow My Lawn!!! :)
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: Who do U BLAME

Blame yourselves and stop whining, those of you who have voted for politicians based on mere idealogy absolutely deserves the demagoguery fed to you.
Take a look at beautiful little ole' Earth, now ask yourselves, why are you floating in a part of the universe that is "apparently" desolate?

Could it be perhaps humans are a contridiction onto themselves? .
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Who do U BLAME


Yeah, it will be all sunshine & fuzzy teddy bears when people start needing to decide whether to heat their house or eat.....
I suppose Teddy Roosevelt was a commie.....
He saw Standard Oil for what it was & the danger that it represented.....
Now there are 4 or 5 Standard Oils....
They don't need to sit down to collude....
It is far easier than that....
Public utilities have to have their rate increases OK'd......
Gas at the pump should be the same......
The oil companies are artificially inflating prices......
Gas was a dollar a gallon cheaper 4 months ago....
No interruption of supply, no act of God, so why the increase?
The runaway train needs some brakes.....
If that means government intervention, then so be it, IMHO;)
 

gonefishie

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Re: Who do U BLAME


Yeah, it will be all sunshine & fuzzy teddy bears when people start needing to decide whether to heat their house or eat.....
I suppose Teddy Roosevelt was a commie.....
He saw Standard Oil for what it was & the danger that it represented.....
Now there are 4 or 5 Standard Oils....
They don't need to sit down to collude....
It is far easier than that....
Public utilities have to have their rate increases OK'd......
Gas at the pump should be the same......
The oil companies are artificially inflating prices......
Gas was a dollar a gallon cheaper 4 months ago....
No interruption of supply, no act of God, so why the increase?
The runaway train needs some brakes.....
If that means government intervention, then so be it, IMHO;)

If you mean intervention as in allowing more refineries, more drilling, etc...then yes, it would help. If you mean by controlling prices then it ain't going to work since the majority of the stuff is IMPORTED. If they can't sell it here then they will sells it elsewhere even if the elsewhere is offering just 5- 10 cents/gal more. Supply would be even less and prices would be much higher. The only plus is that everyone would start buying up electric car but then those thing would become more expensive then a Ferrari. Who are you gonna blame then, the electric car manf. for selling them for too much?
 

POINTER94

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Re: Who do U BLAME

Who heats their home with Gasoline?

Teddy R. implemented socialism to our country. Short term fix that is still in place today. Sad as it is.

Most oil/gasoline companies are INTERNATIONAL CORPORATIONS. I hope I don't have to explain how this would play out. See HUGO CHAVEZ.

Most public utilities use DOMESTIC sources of fuel like coal, nuclear, hydro-electric, wind, natural gas (a lesser but huge commodity).

I agree that it seems unnatural for prices to increase in such a manner, in such a time frame, but telling mommy to spank your brother seems silly. Do you still live with your mother? Voluntary submission of freedoms to address a short term issue like say gas up a buck is as wrong as dropping nukes on Bagdad. And about the same in terms of weight.

Haut, you seemed to have missed everyones valid points and came back to "It's not fair". Although I am not as experienced as say, JB, my life to date hasn't exactly been fair. ;)
 

QC

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Re: Who do U BLAME

I don't get anything in this thread except JB's post:

1) What shortage?

2) Politicians do NOT set oil prices

3) The only way to lower gasoline prices at the political level is with raising or lowering taxes

4) Alternative fuels don't sell because they suck, and I sell them for a living. Has nothing to do with the performance we want, or that we don't care. It has to do with economics and convenience. Nothing more, nothing less.

5) Hugo and Brazil have done nothing but manipulate taxes and/or subsidies (same thing). See # 3.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Who do U BLAME


So bustin' up Ma Bell was a commie act as well?....
HMMMMM....
I seem to recall that happened under Ronald Reagan's stewardship.....
Anyway, if you are willing to stand idly by while your eyeballs get robbed out of your head, fine by me.....
Actually, it is not fine by me.....
Do you think that just maybe, all of the mergers, .ie Exxon/Mobil for one, has really done anything to enhance the healthy competition that makes capitalism work?.......
I don't......
None of them are gonna drive each other out of business......
So they just make the pie bigger........
At your expense, of course.....;)
 

QC

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Re: Who do U BLAME

Compare any source of energy btu for btu and then get back to us. No one is being ripped off. It's called inflation, supply and demand, quality, etc. etc. etc. No magic or conspiracies here, just paranoia . . . ;)
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: Who do U BLAME

You can either blame supply or demand.

Demand = you and me and every other person on this planet. Stop using so much darn gas.

Supply = government regulations and red tape that have limited where we can drill for oil. This is a worldwide problem, not just the USA.

Summary:

If you do some math, you would realize that 3 dollar gas is about right on track with inflation. In other words, you arent getting ripped off now, you were being spoiled rotten when gas was 99 cents/gallon.

The old myth about no new refineries being built is bull. Capacity was and is currently being increased at the existing refineries. Why build a new one, when you can make the old one make more?

I can tell you one thing, the supply of gasoline will be self regulated by the oil companies to maximize profits. Nothing wrong with that, tis the American way. Why spend billions building a new refinery, if the increased output will kill the price of gas???

Ken
 

Haut Medoc

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Joined
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Re: Who do U BLAME

You can either blame supply or demand.

Demand = you and me and every other person on this planet. Stop using so much darn gas.

Supply = government regulations and red tape that have limited where we can drill for oil. This is a worldwide problem, not just the USA.

Summary:

If you do some math, you would realize that 3 dollar gas is about right on track with inflation. In other words, you arent getting ripped off now, you were being spoiled rotten when gas was 99 cents/gallon.

The old myth about no new refineries being built is bull. Capacity was and is currently being increased at the existing refineries. Why build a new one, when you can make the old one make more?

I can tell you one thing, the supply of gasoline will be self regulated by the oil companies to maximize profits. Nothing wrong with that, tis the American way. Why spend billions building a new refinery, if the increased output will kill the price of gas???

Ken

One one or a few entities can & do fix prices to maximize profits by manipulating supply, that is a monopoly.......
The US Oil Trust needs to be broken again.......;)
 

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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Re: Who do U BLAME

OPEC is not an American monopoly. Mexico is not, Venezuela is not . . . how are American oil companies mainupulating their oil prices? Why is our gasoline cheaper than almost everywhere? When was the last time you waited in a line to get your ration of gasoline due to the shortage? I DON'T GET IT!!
 

gonefishie

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Re: Who do U BLAME

HOLY smokey! a kenimpzoom sighting...ain't seen you around for awhile there bud.
 
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