What losing this war will mean

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DJ

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Re: What losing this war will mean

txswinner,<br /><br />We will ALWAYS disagree on the invasion of Iraq.<br /><br />However, if one thinks that Saddam did not have designs on toppling this country (easily done-we're wimps) you are in a dreamland.<br /><br />The whole point of the invasion was to keep the nasty stuff there-not here. So far, it's working.<br /><br />However, our borders are going to be our downfall.
 

txswinner

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Re: What losing this war will mean

DJ Your accusation of treason is taken as an insult and superior ignorance on your part. You Sir are the Chicken Hawk. Yes I do believe before you can tell people to die for YOUR cause you should be willing to make the sacrifice yourself. I am no traitor, I think Bush is way off base, I think the war is wrong, I respect the office of the Presidency, and I will always support the military especially those in harm's way. You sir have no right to accuse me are anyone else of treason for differing with you and if you do then perhaps one who believes in only one side does not believe in democracy at all.
 

gonfishn

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Txswinner...I need to ask you why you went to Nam when you could have skirted to the Canadian side?<br />You went because it was the right thing to do in your heart.. There is no winner in any war ..<br /><br />Don't let yourself get caught up in all this.. Many a vet here don't respond to threads like this because there are no winners. Each side has their own opinion on what is right and what is wrong. No one is testing you right as a vet to have your say. As other folks have that same right..<br /><br />We have nothing to prove here..You see i to am a Vietnam Vet..I to was there when you were....I was a Navy Corpsman better known as "doc" to my comrade in arms in the First Mar Div.<br /><br />I have said my peace..Hopefully the USA will never have to see what many of the vets here have seen..Remember Ts we are the chosen few. We are still here to honor those who are not here today because of the ultimate sacrifice they made then..
 
D

DJ

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Re: What losing this war will mean

"Chicken Hawk". You do not know me. The internet is a great place to "hide".<br /><br />I KNOW what my actions/ideas/beliefs are.<br /><br />You sir, at least Ithink you are a sir, have thoroughly insulted me.<br /><br />Again,you have NO idea, who I am.<br /><br />I WILL DIE FOR MY CAUSE. YOU'LL pull the trigger.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: What losing this war will mean

I never intended this thread to become a fight between those who have or have not been in the service of our great counrty. Every American has the right to have an opinion. Lets try this, We are at war.......right? We can all agree on that I hope......how do we win this war? We can not afford to lose so reguardless of your political stance, right or left, up or down.....whatever....lets hear ideas on how we need to win this. :(
 

ErikDC

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Re: What losing this war will mean

With all the respect in the world for our vets, you've been there and done that, I can only be the Monday morning quarterback. Feel free to call me out, I'm a big boy and I can admit when I'm wrong. Mikeandronda asked how we can win this war and I'm not so sure we can win it. I've stated before that I think this a religious war on the part of the extremist Muslim terrorists and how do you defeat an enemy that will blow themselves up? We've already learned that we can't do something idiotic like drop a nuke in the Mid-East and take care of the problem. They're all over the planet and by their own words, won't stop until all infidels are dead. I've also been reading recent articles about nuclear devices that have already been smuggled into our country. I couldn't tell you if that's true or not but I'm pretty damn sure that Al-Qaida has probably been trying to accomplish that for quite some time. So what now? Do we round up all Arab-Americans, foreign students and tourists and toss them into guarded camps? Is that how far we will go to avoid an entire city being destroyed? I would, if it came down to it. Call me want you want but how else would you deal with a potential terrorist nuclear detonation? I know this is an extreme and maybe unlikely situation but as far as I can see, it's possible. I know, we locked down the Japanese-Americans during WW2 and it was a terrible mistake but that was the gut reaction of Pearl Harbour and although it may be just me, I'm gonna be a bit nervous and jerky if I see a Middle Eastern person wearing a backpack walking anywhere, remember London? I'm not racist by any means but that's the M.O. If we get attacked again, and we probably will, how should we respond? Or how should we prevent it?<br /><br />Edit: Holy Crapsky! Sorry, didn't realize the post was that long, sorry if I wasted time and space! :eek:
 

alden135

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Originally posted by ErikDC:<br /> I've stated before that I think this a religious war on the part of the extremist Muslim terrorists and how do you defeat an enemy that will blow themselves up? <br /><br />
Remember the Japanese in WWII. We defeated them.
 

dogsdad

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Originally posted by BoatBuoy:<br />
Originally posted by dogsdad:<br /> It amazes me how easily some folks are led around by the media.<br /><br />All this crap about the Administration and the generals not knowing what they're doing is a bunch of unadulterated buffalo dung. As is all this crap about us being there to steal Iraq's oil.
I agree. We're not there to steal oil. We're there to get rid of the WMD's.
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm here?<br /><br />We are in Iraq to give the Iraqi people a chance to establish a democracy. The intent is to change the political face of the Middle East so that PEACE might have a chance. Why is that so hard to understand?
 

ErikDC

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Originally posted by alden135:<br />
Originally posted by ErikDC:<br /> I've stated before that I think this a religious war on the part of the extremist Muslim terrorists and how do you defeat an enemy that will blow themselves up? <br /><br />
Remember the Japanese in WWII. We defeated them.
Alden135, God Bless you and I can't thank you enough for your service. However, after what happened in London, anything could happen anywhere here. The difference between the old Japanese Empire and the new Islamic terrorists is that the Empire attacked military targets. Ya know? I only need to see ONE suicide bomber blow up a mall here and then I've had enough. It's unfortunate that the supposedly peaceful Muslim community doesn't seem like they will take care of their own problem. Round 'em up and lock 'em up if they can't do it. My patience is thin.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: What losing this war will mean

heres the promblem with this kind of war they(the terrorists) have all the advantage due to the fact they are obviously not worried about being politicaly correct.......below is an example. Somebody should stop this man from breathing.<br /><br />CAIRO, Egypt (CNN) -- The father of one of the hijackers who commandeered the first plane that crashed into the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, praised the recent terror attacks in London and said many more would follow.<br /><br />Speaking to CNN producer Ayman Mohyeldin Tuesday in his apartment in the upper-middle-class Cairo suburb of Giza, Mohamed el-Amir said he would like to see more attacks like the July 7 bombings of three London subway trains and a bus that killed 52 people, plus the four bombers.<br /><br />Displayed prominently in the apartment were pictures of el-Amir's son, Mohamed Atta, the man who is believed to have piloted American Airlines Flight 11 into the north tower of the World Trade Center as part of the attacks on the United States.<br /><br />El-Amir said the attacks in the United States and the July 7 attacks in London were the beginning of what would be a 50-year religious war, in which there would be many more fighters like his son.<br /><br />He declared that terror cells around the world were a "nuclear bomb that has now been activated and is ticking."<br /><br />The man, who gave his age as "at least 70," said he had no sorrow for what happened in London, and said there was a double standard in the way the world viewed the victims in London and victims in the Islamic world.<br /><br />Cursing in Arabic, el-Amir also denounced Arab leaders and Muslims who condemned the London attacks as being traitors and non-Muslims.<br /><br />He passionately vowed that he would do anything within his power to encourage more attacks.<br /><br />When asked if he would allow a CNN crew to videotape another interview with him, el-Amir said he would give his permission -- for a price of $5,000.<br /><br />That money, he said, would not be kept for himself, but would be donated to someone to carry out another terror attack.<br /><br />El-Amir said that $5,000 was about how much it would cost to finance another attack in London.<br /><br />A lawyer by trade, el-Amir had a sign on his apartment door saying he was a consultant.<br /><br />The security guard for the apartment building said el-Amir had been under surveillance by Egyptian agents for several months after the September 11 attacks, but no one had been watching him recently.
 

marcmccain

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Re: What losing this war will mean

OooooooK. For those who are pro vet I've got 30 years and two wars under my belt. And I can't find flaws in Ralph's logic.<br /><br />We in the west live in a society that has historically seperated church and state. So our penal laws are founded on moral issues that are derived from the 10 commandments. But those who make our laws are not controlled by the church.<br /><br />I have lived in many Islamic countries, worked as a liason with many in the military of those countries. I spoke the language as part of my past jobs. It is not a religious war from the perspective of people in the west; however, it is a religious war from the Islamic point of view. Different from us, the Islamic countries combine church and state... that is to say that the lawmakers propose a law and pass it to the theologians where it recieves its final approval as a law or rejection as a law. The folks who run the Islamic theology control the laws. So the question is who runs the Islamic theology.<br /><br />The Catholic Church is the only organized religious group with a worldwide organization with leadership at the top. All other religious groups are fragmented with no centralized leadership. So Islamic leadership is not centralized but is represented by those who speak the loudest and boldest -- those who get most publicity. The fundamentalist! <br /><br />It is a religious war. We are polarized in our ideas. We will never agree on the way things should be.<br /><br />They do not envy us or our western lifestyle. If you can concieve of symbols that symbolize what is right and wrong -- good and evil then now immagine that you are an Islamic person who is taught the every thing that the west does is evil. Our lifestyle is evil, our culture is evil, our morals as reflected by Hollywood and international television programs are evil, multinational businesses are evil. They preach the destruction of evil... not envy of the lifestyle we live in the west. We are polarized and there will never be a meeting of the minds as long as fundalmentalist have influence over the mass. <br /><br />Ralph, I agree with you!
 

Skinnywater

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Sorry guys it's been three days of 110f in the shop. <br />I think military service does count for a different perspective.<br />And having a son in the military at time of war is a perspective that only those parents can have.<br />txwinner also has the extra ability to recognise another Vietnam.<br />I only spent 3 years stateside ('72-'75). I only know what war does to good men after they come home.<br />
OooooooK. For those who are pro vet I've got 30 years and two wars under my belt. And I can't find flaws in Ralph's logic.<br />
Warhorse,then you know we've been in purpetual warfare for the last 65 years. Men and war machines all over the globe, you would've thought we'd be very safe by now.
 

dogsdad

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Originally posted by Skinnywater:<br /> I only spent 3 years stateside ('72-'75). I only know what war does to good men after they come home.
You said "what war does to good men after they come home." A little freudian slip there, huh? A good deal of what the Vietnam vets went through was after they got home, when they arrived in airports and were spat upon by the very SCUM OF THE EARTH. I surely wouldn't want to be associated with so-called "war protestors" in any way whatsoever.<br /><br /><br />-dd-
 

marcmccain

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Skinnywater,<br /><br />Yes, you'd think so. But psychologist have a field day explaining the nature of mankind. There have been and will be wars for power, to protect the weak (interpreted as protecting national interest; e.g. investments and access to natural resources, and religious fervor.<br /><br /><br />To requote: "There will always be wars and rumors of wars".
 

txswinner

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Guess, I miscommunicated my initial intent in this thread. I in no way meant if you have not been in military you have no right to be pro-war. I just want to say that all of us that are against the war in Iraq are not wimps, gays, left wing commie or committing treason. We are U.S. Citizens just like you; some served, some did not, but we have a right to express our opinion without be considered less of an American. After all if there is no opposition there is no democracy.
 

marcmccain

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Re: What losing this war will mean

txswinner,<br /><br />Agreed, everyone has an opinion and the right to express it. I particulary like to hear opinions different from mine; keeps me young and challenges my mind. I'm old enough to realize that I don't express my opinion with the intent to convert others to my way of thinking. And others don't try to convince me they are right. We're just a group of folks saying what we think, and sometimes I get a perspective that I hadn't considered before.<br /><br />But to say others opinions are not acceptable because they don't have the same life experience is to express that one is superior and that others opinions have no value in the arena of discussion. I'm glad you served in Nam. I did too, in fact I had two tours then another in the first Persian Gulf War.<br /><br />Being a vet is not the prerequsite for having an opinion that should be respected by all those that post here. Let's respect the opinions of all.<br /><br />We're all in this one; some serve in Iraq and Afganastan. But where is the front? Iraq? Afganastan? Pakistan? London? Madrid? New York?<br /><br />They bombed the public transportation system again in London about three hours ago -- the second time this month. Seems minor this time. <br /><br />I don't want to sound like Chicken Little and run around saying "The sky is falling, the sky is falling". But the writing is on the wall. They will eventually do something that is devistating in a major city...<br /><br />We have a major forest fire buring out of control here in Spain. 15,000 hectares (37,000 acres) and the fire was started by someone who wanted to BBQ some chops. 11 firefighters died in a backfire. They say that it will take more than 100 years for the forest to come back. <br /><br />Now, Imagine if terrorist in several different cars in several parts of the U.S. drove around some country back-roads and each with a box of matches simultaneously started forest fires in several places around the country. There are less than a dozen firefighting planes in the states. This is only one example of things that could be done ... not all terrorist acts are bombs and bullets. There are a lot of things that they can do and our government leaders have to try to predict and prepare. <br /><br />I still contend that it is a religious war. We will continue to see skirmishes here and there around the world until the war is one by one side or the other. We can discuss it to the end of time but it won't be over until one side is victorious and one side is defeated. I am convinced we are culturally and religiously polorized. Diplomacy works only among honorable men who are willing to find a solution suitable to all. And terrorist aren' honorable men! So how are we going to peacefully resolve the issue. No way! <br /><br />Back to the main idea of this thread. We are at war. We can't half-fight, we can't become a divided nation, we can't loose.... or can we?
 

txswinner

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Warhorse, I understand your points and they are well taken, I am just sick of people clammering for war. Yes they can be lost, and yes the downside is terrible, Korea and Viet Nam. I still contend that basis military training is do not start a skirmish or war you can not Win. That is what I see in Iraq. Not about Bin Laden, give me the gun I would shot him myself.
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Plain and simple, if we lose this war all American will suffer immensely from the reprecussions well into the next century, and it matters not what brand of ideological dogma one follows.<br /><br />Those who are looking for a simple answer and an easy way out are nothing but naive.
 

txswinner

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Re: What losing this war will mean

Agreed, I was against going into Iraq in the beginning but through either misinformation, misconception, outright deception or some other reason we went into Iraq. Hey Afgan and Osama, I would have every trooper we have after him today. But we have a small number after Osama as the majority of our force is trying to make a democracy out of a country full of not so bright religious zealouts. I still say "You can not kill fireants, just try to keep them away and do not meddle with them.
 
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