What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

[WillyBWright]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

In the entire history of outboard motors, the only model number system that ever made any kind of sense was that used by Johnson in the seventies. How I yearn for numbers like those! Customers are accustomed to referring to machines by year. They have frequently expressed the opinion that the marine motor manufacturers are intentionally hiding this information from them creating a certain degree of distrust. It also leads to never-ending confusion at the parts counter that adds to the aggrivation of owning a boat. It also boggles my mind that Yamaha would elect to mimic Mercury, given the current status of their relationship. I think this practice (no matter how pervasive it is) is foolhardy and illadvised.

 

[BillP]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

Originally posted by INTERNETOUTBOARDS:<br /> Depending on the state that you reside in, outboards are titled. (Florida not being one of them). But, regardless of whether or not you have to register it...It has an MSO. Just like a car or a boat, that paper exists and provides proof of model year. Any consumer that is concerned that the dealer that they are dealing with is attempting to defraud them about the year only has to ask for that piece of paper.

We went though this on a previous thread. From my point of view it has nothing to do with fraud. But it has everything to do with getting old technology motors, financing and selling. There needs to be trackable data that proves the yr. It needs to be credible and proveable for the entire life of the motor. I really don't think Farmer Jack is going to believe what BillyBob's personal bill of sale sez when buying it used 10 yrs later.<br />As my wife sez..."whatever".

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

I really don't see an issue here. If Yamaha tells you the year, what more proof could anyone want? The serial number determines model year. Insurance and finance company's will and always have accepted that as proof of model year for everything else. As to technology...They will make improvements all year long. They won't save them up for model year turnovers. In fact, that will be a major improvment for the consumer. Yamaha will have no reason to hold back any technology for an August 1st rollover. They will just release it as it becomes available(They usually do that anyway). <br /><br />I really think that the "press release" was just written so poorly that it allowed all these concerns to develop. They should never have said "no model year" That's obviously a red flag that worry's people, for all the reasons that have been pointed out. But, since the engines will still have a model year(even if it doesn't say 200X on the engine itself) I think that those concerns are unwarranted.

 

[Navigator]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

I think the model year is a moot point so long as Yamaha keeps the price the same. If model "A" is built for 5 years straight, and they are not differentiated by the year, then the pricing on year 1 should be the same as year 5. <br />How will price increases be justified if there are no "changes"? This will be a real headache for the dealers, and thus the consumers because as soon as there is a price increase, then the entire dealers inventory can be justifiably sold for more? How many dealers do you know who will set aside the "lower" priced identical motors for you to buy???<br /><br />Nav

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

Most of them. Regardless of them having the same model number, the serial number will indicate that they are different years. If dealer A has a 2006 and dealer B has a 2007 and they are the same price, people will always buy the 2007 over the 2006. Dealers price according to what the market will bring. If there is a shortage of a model type the price will remain high regardless of year. If there is a glut then dealers will take as big a loss as they think they can stand, again, regardless of the year of the engine. Keep in mind that even though they may have the same model number and look identical, they are not the same. That serial number is just like a Scarlet Letter. It tell's all to those who heed it.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

Time will tell but this doesn't pass the "smell test". Seems like a great way to unload old "new" engines in the package boat industry. Hear the sales person: "Here's a 2007 boat with a new Yamaha xx HP engine for $xxxxx.xx". Since the buyer thinks the engine is also a 2007 he/she pops only to find out when its time to buy parts the engine is really a couple years older. And it may turn out they will never know. That's a benefit to Yamaha and the dealer and not a benefit to the consumer -- that's deception.

 

[phantoms]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

That's a benefit to Yamaha and the dealer and not a benefit to the consumer

Exactly my concern.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

upinsmoke. that happens all the time now. that part wont change. but the MOS is in the contract package. if you dont get the MOS with a new motor its rather hard to prove you bought it . I actally like the idea.makes it easier for all concerned and then I will only be fighting one set of numbers,as will the consumer.<br /> the primary ID, aka seriel number, will tell ya about anything you wish to know about a particular motor.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

the primary ID, aka seriel number, will tell ya about anything you wish to know about a particular motor.

INCLUDING THE YEAR!

 

[north40]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

The average buyer does not have a clue as to what the serial number means. Are dealers going to be honest enough to say upfront "this is a new 2007 baywinner boat with a brand new 2005 yammy engine or will they say since 2007 engines are selling for $10,000.00 we are giving you this one for $7500.00 or will they hand prospective buyers a buying guide which says "to determine what year your engine was manufactured, check serial number". I doubt any of this will happen. Sounds like something that would come out of Washington, DC to me.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

I think it would depend on the honesty of the dealer and/or the intelligence of the buyer...But, everything you just outlined could happen under the older model year system as well. If a consumer does not ask about "the year", on anything they buy, they run the risk of being screwed. What if you are buying that same boat with a two year old trailer, a three year old radio and a two year old depthfinder?

 

[Navigator]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

All the consumer really has to do is to have the Dealer indicate the model year of the engine on the sales contract. No dealer is going to lie, in writing, knowing that any bottom feeding lawyer can win in court if it was discovered. The dealers liability is too high to play those deceptive games. (I'm talking about the reputable dealers anyways.)<br /><br />A lot has to do with the intelligence of the buyer as well. You cant always protect stupid people.<br />If Biff the yuppie goes to the boat show and buys this gleaming Bayliner with a shiney Force outboard to impress his friends, he ought to have at least some knowledge before he plunks down his AMEX.<br /><br />Honest Dealers are the Key to the whole issue.<br /><br />Nav

 

[craze1cars]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

How is this different from buying a car? Or a boat? They usually don't have model year stickers either. If an crooked dealer wanted to pass off a 2004 Rinker boat as a 2006, or a 2004 Chevy as a 2006, an uneducated customer may not know any better. But an educated customer could check the HIN or the VIN and verify the year.<br /><br />Not only that, but how accurate is a sticker anyway? EXAMPLE: A less educated customer could just look at a car's door jamb sticker with a MFG date and say, "Look, this Chevy truck was mfrd in 09/04, so it's a 2004 model." WRONG. That's actually most likely going to be a 2005 model truck according to the 10th digit of the VIN and the title. A lot of people don't recognize this. How long have the 06's been on dealer lots already? MONTHS. Not a heckuva lot of them have been produced in 06, have they?! And as for making changes in production from one year to the next...this happens mid-year ALL THE TIME. I promise you that a 2004 Chevy built in 09/03 has MANY different parts when compared to another 2004 Chevy that was built in 04/04 but looks the same. Model year is just a marketing number...really means nothing.<br /><br />And for that matter, what's in a sticker? Swapping VIN plates is a time-honored tradition in the world of fraud in cars. And that takes some serious work because titles are involved. But how difficult is it to peel off a sticker and buy a newer one for your outboard?<br /><br />IMO, 'tis the same it always has been. Buyer beware. Either the consumer needs to make sure he/she is educated, or needs to make sure your dealer is 100% honest.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

Crazy -- With a car, (new or used) the model year is stated on the title. It's also advertised as such, and its also indicated on the order you sign, and yes, the serial number also indicates model year but the data is dead in front of you at deal time. Cars are sold and represented by model year -- not by serial number. However, many states (including mine) do not title outboard engines so unless the buyer can decode the serial number, or unless the seller indicates in writing what the model year of the engine is, he/she cannot (or should not) complete a deal until they know for sure what they are buying. That can certainly be said about every purchase but in this case, the data given requires some checking. I don't dispute the convenience for the dealer and Yamaha. Without a model year in writing, the buyer has no legal recourse in the event he/she was sold something other than what was represented. If that's indicated on the bill of sale or sales order -- no foul. I simply contend it creates one more hurdle for the buyer to jump over and probably trip over. Just ask yourself if the engine on your new 2006 boat is "new" or is it "current production". The sly dealer/salesperson can say yes to both questions but he is lying if the engine is indeed new, but not current production. For those states where titling of engines is required, the dealers very likely handle that paperwork and I really doubt whether the new owner would know what an MSO is much less what it means. The owner then does not know for sure what was purchased until those titles arrive. Yes Matilda -- Im still a skeptic.

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

This TRUTH IN SELLING has never existed. Nothing has changed in companies getting the product made and sold. What has changed is what MORE of you now know how and what a company needs to do to make money. And you feel betrayed by childhood standards. Too bad.

 

[BillP]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

Yamaha's new "no model year" deal can't be compared to cars and neither can small changes during the model year production or yearly overlaps in production. Nobody sells a 2004 car for a 2005 car...it CAN'T be done legally because there are too many checks in the system to prevent it. <br /><br />Here's a blurp from the November 5 issue of the BOATS U.S. monthly magazine about it...I'm typing it ASAP so please excuse spelling errors.<br /><br />Yamaha Drops Model Years<br />In an effort to reduce what it calls an "inventory control situation" and an "unnecessary burden" for dealers, Yamaha Marine has announced that its outboard engines will no longer carry model year designations.<br /><br />"Historically, it was common for outboard models to feature new components or changes once a year. However, improvements in outboards, thanks to today's new technologies, often means outboards usually do not change at a single specified date," explained Yamaha Marine Prisident Phil Dyskow.<br /><br />This is the equivalent of automobile maker Honda selling the Civic DX with no model year information because this basic model doesn't change much from one year to the next. It's unlikely they could convince many customers to pay new car prices for leftover Civics sitting for years on dealers' lots.<br /><br />All Yamaha engines will carry a label that identifies the month and year the model -not the engine itself- was produced. Presumably, Yamaha will still be able to track individual engines by their serial numbers.<br /><br />While Dyskow says, "The model year designator no longer brings significant benefit or advantage to the table for the consumer," boat owners may beg to differ, especially when a new boat is equipped with an engine whose technology is outmoded and a new design has become the industry standard. Under the new system an engine that has remained in the inventory of a boat builder or dealer for a year or more could be installed on a new boat.<br /><br />In addition, it is questionable whether Yamaha will provide warranty coverage for years-old engines that have not been stored properly by builders or dealers, or that have been cannibalized while they're sitting on the shelf.<br /><br />If, unlike Dyskow, you don't see any "benefit or advantage" to obscuring engine model year information, call Yamaha's customer relations department, 866-894-1626, or write to Phil Dyskow, Yamaha Motor Corp., 1270 Chastain Rd., Northwest Kennesaw, GA 30144.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

what a crock, about the biggest crock mag out there. that writer should write for greepeace or something. I hate it when folks try to mix personal opinion and fact.<br /> mercury,mariner and mercrusier have never ever sold by a year model. they have them,just like yamaha will, but it wont be written, most are nat anyway. most are in code. dont belive it go look at any honda,suszuli,yamaha,merc of either types, chysler,force,or jonny rude and see if the date is plainly written in english. its all a numeric code, OMC and BRP use an alpha code with prefixs and suffixs that indicate a running mid year or model change. yamaha has at somepoint 5 150 hp models, how can you tell them apart ?<br /> at one time yam had 2 225 motors with completely different blocks,mid sections and lowers. about the only interchange was the prop hardware and the paint color. <br /> but all have model/seriel codes. all are accessible. it will help the dealer and the manufacturer reduce costs and inventory as well as in ordering the correct parts for the model in question.<br /> so far yamaha provides full warrenty for any motor sold new,regardless of age.I expect they will continue. mercrusier quit sometime ago. I think the tech bulliten said something like packages over 3 years in inventory will have a dealer,not factory warrety, if any.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

Whom ever it was that wrote that crap at Boat U.S. is an idiot. Ever since West Marine bought Boat U.S. their collective IQ's have been dropping through the cellar.

 

[phantoms]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

It will help the dealer and the manufacturer reduce costs and inventory as well as in ordering the correct parts for the model in question.

How is it gonna help in ordering correct parts? The serial number has always been there and whether a model year is there or not, the correct parts are no easier to find than they were before. It will defenitely help the dealer and manufacturer, but not the customer in any way! The customer loses when they have to jump through hoops to figure out how long a motor has been sitting somewhere.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: What do you all thing about Yamaha dropping the years they are built!

cause the dumb arse customer cant get us the right model number and makes us jump through hoops. then when we do finnaly find the correct page in the puter the first footnote you will hit is the seriel number break, by that time I have wasted 30 min of my day cause no one knows the primary ID. its even worse dealing with brunswick products . if ya dont believe it look up anything for a merc based on engine year and soon you will find ya have to have the seriel number, so why spend all that money playng with a model number.<br /> there were probably 15 or more models of just the yamaha 150. but anything built after 1998 has to have the year of manufacture EPA label on it anyway. if ya dont believe it look on the cowl of any post 98 motor. it will state this motor conforms to umptysquat year.<br /> there is the F150,c150,VZ150,Z150,V150 a 150 there was a p150,dx150,an lx150,a px150,an sx150,a vx150, a lz150 thats pretty much the list of 150 yamahas built since about 99. so while there may be a bit of confusion all yamaha is trying to do is lessen it a bit, the year of manufacture wont change, the parts lists will though, there were so many running changes it makes my head swim. but no the model year will be like a merc. and it will be on any sales contract.