Wet wood - do I have a disaster in my hands?

[Joolz]

This is kind of a follow up to this thread: http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...a-listing-boat

Figured I started a new thread as to stay on topic but wonder if the wet wood is possibly coming from the keel damage as discussed above.

Issue: today as I checked the boat for possible soft spots on the deck I noticed it to be firm with no soft spots, something that can be confirmed in the pics below as the plywood seems fit throughout (although I couldn't check in the bow area). When I pulled the carpeting near the rear where the battery sits I noticed that the deck is covered by a thin layer of fibreglass. Guess that's a typical design? Due to this I couldn't see the wood from above, but peeking in the ski locker I was able to see the wood to be dry and fit. Well, until I looked towards the front. As seen in the pic the thin fibreglass covering was looking anemic and peeling off (the vertical portion). As I peeled a bit of it off and pressed my finger on the now blackened plywood, I could see water forming around the pressure point. Wood is soaked - and the boat's been parked in the dry garage for the past 6 months!

Hoping to gain a bit of understand as to what this means. Do I have a disaster in my hands? Or since the wetness is only in the front of the boat near the bow can I just go on my merry way?

This boat is in nowhere near the state of several that I saw while shopping for our first boat - the type had been left outside without a cover. In other words, this is not your rotting mess from those that couldn't care to buy a cover for their boats. The PO took great care of this boat and it was never left to the elements. However as seen in the thread above, he did a fair amount of beaching and there is a bit of damage to the keel. I have a 12' long 3M keel guard to put on, something I hope to do soon. But now I have this wet wood that has me concerned. Especially with 2 small boys and a baby due in 2 months I can't risk being in a boat that could sink in the middle of a cold lake, then again it looks like this boat will survive as is for some time. I have neither the skills nor the room to do a complete restoration, really hoping it won't come to that. Hoping for input on what I'm facing. If additional pics or investigating is needed, please let me know. Hoping to get some answers before hitting the waters in a couple of weeks.

Boat is a 86 Canaventure, think it's a 17' but not sure how to measure it. Including pics of it so that you know what I'm dealing with. Thanks for any help you may provide.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

it is not recommended that you start a new thread to continue an old one. Information gets scattered between the two threads and it becomes hard for us to follow. jbcurt00 can relocate the thread from the Electrical and electronics forum to here and merge the two if you would like. You can send him a private message if you want to merge and relocate.

I know this is not what you want to hear but the side walls of the ski locker are not just wet, they are rotten. From the angle of the hull around them, I am thinking these side walls are actually your stringer. Rotten stringers, bad news. Take a core sample of the transom by drilling with a 1/4 drill bit at 1 inch depth stopper. See what the status of the wood inside, black is rot and it is not good and not safe. You need to take core samples from different highs, port and starboard sides.

I woulld also core sample the stringers from the transom all the way forward every 12 inches or so.

If you stand (or your kid) on that engine and shake a little, does it flex?

 

[Joolz]

Reason for starting a new thread is to abide by forum rules. Had I not, I'd been accused of going off topic, but thanks for your concern.
Can someone please comment on my issue regarding the wet wood? This has been keeping up at nights.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Sure looks like some bad water intrusion. I would start doing core samples on the stringers and transom to find out how bad. First look it seemed like someone replaced the floor and neglected to coat the bottom side. But the water damage seems to include the floor where it contacts the stringers and dividers. Sure looks like it came from the factory unsealed, they didn't build it to last very long. All the water is creeping everywhere by virtue of capillary action. There will be no piece of wood in contact with another piece that hasn't been water damaged. And the open underside of the flooring is enough to soak everything underneath.

Rick

 

[fhhuber]

Visibly rotted wood in the forward ski locker picture... Its going to require finding just how much is rotted.

Looks like a section of deck was replaced in the aft picture and already has some of the replacement plywood getting damp...

 

[Joolz]

Thanks for the replies. I don't believe the floor deck has been replaced, since the original fibreglass is still intact. As noted above, near the back of the boat where the battery sits (and the deck floor starts) is covered by the factory fibreglass. No sign that it has ever been cut or repatched. Which doesn't surprise me as this boat was well cared for. Then again I have read that even the best cared for boat can suffer from water intrusion, mostly due to poor factory workmanship (such as water sipping in from outboard mounts in poorly sealed contact points).

In my case, seeing how the water appears to be sipping in from near the bow I have to wonder if the slight keel damage is responsible for this? Pics can be seen in the link at the top of the page. Doesn't seem like much of a damage, the "loose" fibreglass was only 2.5mm thick and the rest appears solid. But as another user pointed out, fibreglass can be tricky to read and it may be enough to let water through. I do plan to patch that damage and apply the keel guard before heading out for the first time this season. But even with that sealed, I'd still have water inside that will only continue to spread and rot away.

Any tips on how I can check the integrity of the stringers? There doesn't appear to be an easy way to reach it. Hope it doesn't mean having to remove the entire deck first. Does it?

Edit: fhhuber, I don't believe a portion of the deck has been replaced. I carefully examined the fibreglass inside the ski locker and it was intact, no sign it was ever cut or redone. I was also able to peek through the 3/8" opening between the deck's bottom (not sure why there is this gap, poor factory workmanship?) and I can see the foam on the other side. There is no smell of mold, if that's any indication.

 

[Joolz]

No Title

What do you folks think of this idea: cutting the already rotten wood partially so that I can not only have an easier access to what's behind it, but also to allow it to dry out? I mean, the wood is already rotted, so no harm done right? Thinking of doing the same to both sides, a hole big enough for me to stick my arm inside and feel the stringers, floor for wetness. But before doing so wanted to ensure I'm not weakening things.

I plan to repair the bit of damage to the keel before hitting the water, just in case that's the entry point for the water in the bow. This way if I can fully dry out the bow I can see if more water comes in after I take the boat to the lake. Good idea?

Edit: by cutting the red marked areas, I could do so from the ski locker opening, without having to remove anything. Tight but doable. Good first step?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Waste of time. Just drill test holes through the fiberglass into the wood stringers. Even that appears a waste of time as the wood is wet and rotting. Your ski locker runs the whole length of the center of the boat - you have access to about 4 feet of stringer right there. Wet wood is junk. A few 1/4 inch holes will tell you what the wood is like, you can safely plug them with 3M 5200 if the wood is good.

The reason for the assumption that the floor was replaced is the wood isn't even sealed on the bottom, just plopped down and screwed in. If I replaced the floor you would not be able to tell by virtue of the fiberglass laid over top. That would all look factory, or better, when finished.

Rick

 

[jbcurt00]

Wet wood encased in fiberglass is extremely unlikely to dry out in a meaningful way, esp if its past merely wet and is already soft and rotten.

Reaching thru a hole into another cavity below deck will probably only allow you to feel if theres standing water in that cavity. Its all likely wrapped in glass and not wet to the touch.

 

[Joolz]

Thanks for the input, this confirms my fears that I may have no choice but to pop the deck and look inside - then get to work on replacing what is needed. Not something I plan on doing immediately. At the earliest later this fall.
But for my own peace of mind I'd like to get a better idea as to the condition of the springers, if anything to know that the boat won't sink with my newborn inside (she's due next month). Is there a guide here on how and where to drill holes to check? As for plugging the holes afterwards would 3M marine premium filler work too? Reason I ask is that I'm about to buy it to repair the slight keel damage and will have plenty of it leftover. And since it can be sanded, figured it would leave a nicer finish than the 5200 glue.

 

[Rick Stephens]

would 3M marine premium filler work too

That's fine too. Just a bit more work. 5200 makes a permanent seal of the hole, as will the resin patch.

Just do test holes where the stringers run the length of the boat. They hold the hull straight and keep most of the flex out. Flex is what breaks fiberglass. When they build the hull they first shoot the hull itself into a mold, then lay in the wood stringers and fiberglass over them to add stiffness. If the wood turns to mud you run the risk of breaking the hull itself. So drilling some holes here and there is indicated. You want to be towards the bottom of the stringers - water seeps downward and capillary action draws it upwards. When you see wet wood up high, my bet is you literally have water down low. CAREFUL - the hull angles upwards - don't sink your drill through it.

Next thing is, outboard of the stringers, under the floor, is probably foam. You might use a saw and pop a hole in the floor and take a look to see how water logged the foam is. With bulkheads and stringers looking the way your's do, I would expect wet foam which soaks any wood in contact with it.

 

[mxcobra]

if its rotting wood yes cut it out until you find dry... Then patch it back in, might be more work. But ya gotta do it anyways. So as they say just do it!!! hardest part is kissing youre summer of boating good bye..fiberglass is so easy to mesh together (which you're soon going to find out) There is absolutely no way to tell if its glass from the factory or not. The best part of boat restoration, is youre going to learn so much more about practical construction applications, you will be able to use elsewhere in life and look like a expert on things.....

 

[Joolz]

mx, from another mx racer: great job restoring your Bayliner. Followed your whole thread. You made it seem easy, Prior to seeing your thread, I had followed another where the poster was updating every step of the way. It was an awful, scary mess. Like, the difficulty in removing the foam. All that wood cutting, fitting, sanding to no end. Man, this sure is something I hope I won't have to go through. Note that my boat looks nothing like yours as far as visible rot is concerned. IF no other work had been done on it, it looks like the water intrusion to be minimal and hopefully hasn't spread far. But as you said, for all we know someone did replace the deck and reglassed everything and if so, who knows if they even bothered replacing the stringers, foam, etc.

In my case, if the stars are lined up, I suspect the culprit may have been water coming in from the keel, something I plan to address next using 3M filler and a KeelGuard. I say this cause the PO was religious about covering his boat, something that apparently not many do (seen my share of rotting junk when I was shopping for a boat). If that's where the point of entry is, hopefully there will be no more water intrusion once fixed. But still leaves me with rot that needs to be dealt with. Hoping that I can still enjoy summer, my young boys are already bugging me to take them out. Especially since last week I bought them a 2 person tube that got them really excited.

Will try and do the drill tests to get a better idea of how fit this boat is and if I can enjoy this summer without worries. Still not sure where to drill the holes or what size drill bit I'd need. Maybe someone can give me a few pointers of where to start?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Start right here, front and back of ski locker into the stringers where you can reach. Use 1/4 inch or 5/16 drill. Go in about an inch. Careful about drilling down low that you don't drill into the hull itself. You might just drill upwards at same angle as the hull. Look at the transom and make sure you don't have a step in the hull at the stringers as well.

 

[Joolz]

That's all that's involved? Gee that ain't bad at all. I was expecting to drill from the deck side or somewhere visible. Cool, this should be a snap.
Couple of things: I'm assuming the stringers are sitting against the fibreglass. So basically the idea here is to look at the wood shavings that will come out as I'm drilling and check it for rot and overall fitness, correct?

Once I'm done do I just fill the hole with the 3M filler? (remember I plan use the filler instead of the 5200 glue). Guess it'll be wise to have a bit extra over the hole as to fully make it water tight. Kinda like patching a small hole on the drywall with mud, I'd imagine.

If starting as far back as I can reach and the wood appears solid, do I move up towards the front a couple of feet for the next hole? Every foot seems a bit unnecessary if the wood is solid, wouldn't you say?

Not going to be touching the transom till after I get these holes drilled. Could use a bit of guidance of where to drill at the transom. Can send more pics of it if you'd like to mark on them where to drill.
Again, thanks for the help with this.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Couple of holes per side to get an idea to start. All a stringer is is either a 2x6 or 2x8, or some glued together plywood bedded on the hull with glass and then glassed over. Like the photo. If part of it gets wet, all of it typically gets wet.

 

[Joolz]

Oh ok, for some reason I kept thinking there was a thick wood that followed the curvature of the bow and the pointy shape of the boat. Glad to see we're talking about straight wood that goes in the middle of the boat. Suppose it'd be similar to the wood mx replaced in his Bayliner restoration thread.

Including a pics of my transom, front and back. If you could please mark on these were I could drill to check for the wood integrity that'd be great. Figured might as well do all the drilling and patching at once.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Just get a hole or two down as low as you can get to.

 

[Joolz]

Would that be from the inside? If so do you mean as close to the deck as possible, just behind where the hand pump is sitting? that's be as far down as I could get from the inside, if this what you mean. If I drill the first hole right in the centre, how far to either side does the transom extend?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Inside - isn't there a bilge section in the middle that gets you lower down?