Vulcarity

Drowned Rat · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

By ZmOz

The next day they called me into the office again. This time they said I have detention and gave me another form to sign. Again I said "f*** you!" and left. They called my mom and she said "I agree with him, he shouldn't have to sign anything, and you can't make him stay after school".

This says a lot. You don't handle disputes by telling someone to F off. It's what people say when they don't have an intelligent argument. If you encourage or support this behavior, you're rewarding ignorance.

DR<<< Preparing for backlash.

ZmOz · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by jtexas: you do not have the right to deprive others of their rights

And how is using the F word depriving others of their rights? Not allowing somebody to use the F word is depriving them of their rights.

Originally posted by jtexas: Here's an experiment you can try: go into a commercial airport and shout "I've got a bomb" -

That is completely different. Bombs are not legal in this country, there fore, you can be arrested for saying you have one...just like you can be arrested if you said you just murdered somebody.

Originally posted by CJY: A school has every right to remove any child with disruptive behavior affecting the rights of other students.

I already said that. "Remove" and "punish" are two very different things. Yes, they can ask them to leave, and they can make them leave, but they can't physically touch anybody against their will, they can't hold anybody after school against their will, and they can't fine anybody against their will.

Originally posted by CJY: Parents do not and will never run the school as you believe.

Parents always have the final say for any punishment unless the child is breaking the law. Using the F word is not breaking the law.

Originally posted by CJY: By the way Zm, are you the same person that said(on another thread) you have dealt with many law officers that were, in your opinion, abusing their power. You then ran to the chief(because you knew him) to tell on these bad, bad policemen. This kind of sheds a whole new light on your story as well as your innocence.

What the hell does that have to do with this thread? Yes, I have come across alot of bad policemen, because the police in my town are very corrupt. This is well documented in the local news. If I witness such corruption, I will do everything in my power to put an end to it. I have never been arrested nor ticketed for anything in my life if that's what you're trying to say.

Originally posted by CJY: With all of your constitutional rights, please explain why you cannot use obsenities here in this forum.

This forum is owned by a private business, and as such they can set whatever rules they want. They can make you leave for breaking the rules, but they cannot punish you in any way.

ZmOz · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by Drowned Rat: This says a lot. You don't handle disputes by telling someone to F off. It's what people say when they don't have an intelligent argument. If you encourage or support this behavior, you're rewarding ignorance. DR<<< Preparing for backlash.

You were not there, you have no idea what the situation was. All that matters is that a school was trying to force me to sign a peice of paper, and I refused, as anybody should. Are you telling me you've never cussed at somebody you were mad at?

CJY · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Schools have the right to nearly do anything they would like if either of these 2 criteria are met: 1. Suspicion of drugs, weapons etc. 2. Any type of safety issue Yes, yelling F you qualifies as a safety issue. It is a word of aggression in a school setting when used toward a school employee. You said you told administrators several times to F off. I think that if that really happened, you would have been on the outside looking in pretty quick. If/when you have children and they begin school, will it be okay for a teacher to tell your kid to F off? If not, what if the mom of the teacher told them that It was right in doing so? Then, surely it would be ok. You can't disagree with that one, it's your same argument. I agree, school is not the place to be taught morals, but send you kid to school without them and see what happens.

ZmOz · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by CJY: You said you told administrators several times to F off. I think that if that really happened, you would have been on the outside looking in pretty quick.

Yep, I was. Like I said, I left. On my own. Because they had no power to keep me. They would have the power to keep me out permanently, but would also have to provide alternative schooling, which would just cost them more money. It is completely reasonable for anybody to refuse to sign a peice of paper, AND for that person to get mad at the person trying to make them sign the paper.

Originally posted by CJY: If/when you have children and they begin school, will it be okay for a teacher to tell your kid to F off?

No, as I said above, USUALLY cussing is not appropriate in schools. That does not make it illegal. If my kid was being an a**hole to the teacher, then yes, it would be ok for the teacher to get mad and say something mean. And yes, many of my teachers in high school did use 4 letter words that are censored on this forum. You'll find the same behavior by teachers in Conneticut where they are supposedly fining students.

AK_Chappy · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

I had a long response typed up trying to explain to ZMoz. Then I realized that it wouldn't get through his thick head. After all, read any of his threads. He is always right. He has all the answers. AK Chappy

ZmOz · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by AK Chappy: I had a long response typed up trying to explain to ZMoz. Then I realized that it wouldn't get through his thick head. After all, read any of his threads. He is always right. He has all the answers.

Why, just because I stand up for myself?

Anybody who disagrees with what I have said in this thread is disagreeing with the constitution of the united states. Whether you like my opinion or not, your opinion is no more important nor correct than mine.

AK_Chappy · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

No, Because talking to you is like talking to a wall. Because you DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT listen to logical responses. You are always right, you say you left the school on your own. I laugh at that!!! It shows how you are. You did not leave on your own. You left before they made you leave. That is like quitting your job when you know you are about to be fired. If I am not mistaken, aren't you all for the legalization of pot? You wanted it legalized so you could smoke it legally, right? If this is true, you remind me of all the potheads we had in my high school. Most of them "left" on their own also. Peace on Ya Brother. I am done and will not reply in this thread again now. AK Chappy

CJY · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

ZmOz said;

That does not make it illegal. If my kid was being an a**hole to the teacher, then yes, it would be ok for the teacher to get mad and say something mean.

One last question Zm, who gets to decide what and a**hole is? What if the teacher's perception of one differs from that of your own?

ZmOz · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by AK Chappy: No, Because talking to you is like talking to a wall. Because you DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT listen to logical responses.

What is there to listen to? I am defending the constitution of my country and nothing more. You're just mad because I didn't take your advice.

Originally posted by AK Chappy: If I am not mistaken, aren't you all for the legalization of pot? You wanted it legalized so you could smoke it legally, right?

No, I'm not. I'm against idiots who are against marijuana for false reasons. I qualify for a medical marijuana card, and as such, could smoke it legally. I don't. This is also completely unrelated to this thread.

Originally posted by CJY: One last question Zm, who gets to decide what and a**hole is? What if the teacher's perception of one differs from that of your own?

What if? Nothing. No, I wouldn't like it if a teacher said F you to my kid and I didn't think my kid deserved it, but I would have absolutely no power to punish the teacher the same way the teacher has absolutely no power to punish my kid. Again, it would not be illegal for a teacher to say a bad word if they are mad, nor is it illegal for a kid to say a bad word when they are mad. It is usually against a parent's rules for a kid to say a bad word, and the parent can punish as they see fit.

SS MAYFLOAT · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Rules are made to follow, children and adults alike. Don't follow the rules and be prepared to pay the consequences. Children actually do not have so called rights that the adults have. They are under the custody of their parents or also known as legal guardians. Who goes to jail if the child skips school? It sure isn't the child. The parent is always liable no matter if the parent thinks his child is right or wrong. ZmOz, you have alot of growing experience to do yet. Listening to others mistakes can make life easier or harder. It is your choosing which is your right.. Good Luck friend.........SS

Kenneth Brown · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

You know its kinda nice me not being in the peeing contests for a change. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Texas Penal Code: § 9.62. EDUCATOR-STUDENT. The use of force, but not deadly force, against a person is justified: (1) if the actor is entrusted with the care, supervision, or administration of the person for a special purpose; and (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is necessary to further the special purpose or to maintain discipline in a group. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994. It doesn't say anything about parents consent. This one does say parents consent, although it says implied or express consent. You willingly send them to school. You know what punishments are for certain problems. You therefore imply consent.: § 9.61. PARENT-CHILD. (a) The use of force, but not deadly force, against a child younger than 18 years is justified: (1) if the actor is the child's parent or stepparent or is acting in loco parentis to the child; and (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare. (b) For purposes of this section, "in loco parentis" includes grandparent and guardian, any person acting by, through, or under the direction of a court with jurisdiction over the child, and anyone who has express or implied consent of the parent or parents. I was a he11 raiser as a kid. Pissed off most all of my teachers. It took a long time for me to learn true respect. By the time my first kid was in Kindergarten I realized the schools SHOULD punish. . . . . . . . . . . . . Just remember we told ya so.

RubberFrog · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by ZmOz: ...."Remove" and "punish" are two very different things.

OK, now I see where the semantical difference lies. Most people think that being removed from school is a punishment. Another semantical example-

Originally posted by ZmOz: ...."This forum is owned by a private business, and as such they can set whatever rules they want. They can make you leave for breaking the rules, but they cannot punish you in any way.

Being evicted from the forum for foul language would be a negative consequence, ie, a punishment. I guess now were into what the definition of "IS" is.

snapperbait · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Conneticut has taken the initiative to fine it's school kids for swearing $130.00 and if they can't pay, the parent pays!!!

I'm all for it!....

Put paddles back into the hands of the teachers, and start requiring that teachers have a certain level of judgement, maturity, and sense of justice. Like it was in the old days.

Yer Darn tootin'!....

Link · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

I have an idea! I think you all should just throw in the towel on this thread. Copy it to a CD/DVD Let him grow up and raise his own kids to his own Non-Standards. hehehe Then see what song is sung!

ZmOz · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by Kenneth Brown: It doesn't say anything about parents consent.

So you're saying they can hold a child after school against the child and parent's will? I think not. That's called false imprisonment or kidnapping. Making a child leave school, if the parent does not feel the child's actions are wrong, is not a punishment, but a vacation. Those are the only two options schools have for punishment - making the child leave or making them stay. Neither are punishment in a child's eyes if the parent doesn't care. I never said any of these bad things were OK for students, parents, or teachers to do in a school. What I said is it is not the school's business, your business, or my business to decide what's right and wrong for a child, and what punishment that child should receive, if that child is not your own.

CJY · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Rubber frog, here where I teach, suspension is considered a punishment. probably true for all districts across the country. I was also thinking Zm did not consider removal from school as a punishment. snapper, it is still legal to paddle in many states. By legal Zm, I mean it's a right given to a states school districts by courts of law, not the student's mom. If a student decides to flea any type of punishment(we don't paddle), the school simply calls the police. They then end up seeing a judge, which usually ends up with court costs, fines, and last but not least, a parol officer assigned to that student for an amount of time decided by the judge. Sometimes, even a pretty ankle bracelet, which by the way removes their freedom to leave their own house. So yes Zm, students have many rights and decisions they can make. Be it, curse in school, flea school grounds or whatever. Regardless of what you believe, there absolutely are consequences for inappropriate actions. Getting these types of children out of school, ensures the other students their freedoms are met. Freedom to learn in a safe, fear free, moral, clean, and obscenity free classroom. Let freedom ring!

Wimperdink · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Originally posted by jtexas: And your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins.

This has to be the funniest politically correct statement i've ever read. lmao go jtexas A school and a courthouse are both government funded facilities. You have no more right to cuss in school than you do in a courthouse. Only differance is in a courthouse you go visit a jail cell for contempt of court. I think detention is a fine alternative to a crowbar hotel when dealing with children. Teachers still need the right to declare "contempt of classroom" and keep the kids after school.

CJY · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Those are the only two options schools have for punishment - making the child leave or making them stay. Neither are punishment in a child's eyes if the parent doesn't care.

Absolutely not true! Alternative school, police interaction, paddling, and in-school suspension, just to name a few.

ZmOz · Dec 3, 2005

Re: Vulcarity

Again, a school, in no way what-so-ever, can punish a child against the parent's will. If the parent does not agree with some punishment they can simply remove their child from the school. The only way a child can be forcibly punished by someone other than a parent is by a cop, and that's only when they break the law. Laws are no different inside a school than they are inside a bank or a grocery store. If your child misbehaves in a grocery store can the manager punish your child? Of course not! He can ask them to leave, or call the cops if the child commits a crime. Making a child leave is only punishment if the parent says it is...otherwise it's just a vacation. Most the time it is a punishment to kick a child out of school, but only because the parent agrees that what the child did was wrong and punishes them in their own way at home.

Vulcarity

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