Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I'm don't know about the seal. Might have to cut it, bend it, grab it with a pliers???

Is the hole in the drive shaft threaded? I thought it looked threaded in an ealier pic?

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Tried hooking it, but no budge. It is metal. In fact, it seems to be pressed in from the outside (side I'm on) with about a 1/4" bent (like an "L") edge coming toward me, against the wall of the snout. Behind it I can see a snap ring and bearing but my snap ring tool is too short to reach with this rigid seal or bearing remnant in the way.

Jerry

That snap ring may not need to come off. There is another at the outer edge of the bearing and maybe another behind the seal your fighting with,

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Yes it is threaded.

see it here:
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59648&d=1278968194

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

That snap ring may not need to come off. There is another at the outer edge of the bearing and maybe another behind the seal your fighting with,

Not sure which 'edge' you are referring to. Are there snap rings ON the shaft (ID or inner rings) and snap rings on the outer edge of the snout opening (OD or outer rings)?

The seal is first (from my perspective squatting at the outdrive). Then maybe a snap ring just behind it (according to my manual), then a bearing [or two!], and another snap ring and another oil seal.

The drawing of the bellhousing for the 270 you sent earlier only showed one bearing on the drive shaft, whereas my drawing (from Waukesha) shows two.

I'm off to tear out that pesky seal and then see what's behind it - hopefully JUST ONE bearing!

Thanks,
Jerry

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Mine had two OD snap rings. One behind the seal to stop it in its place and the other was at the outer race of the bearing.

You can't see if there is another bearing, unless you pull the driveshaft out, along with the bearing and see if there is another bearing a couple inches further in. If there is. you'll need to pull the engine to change it.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I got the seal out. First tried to hacksaw into it, but not enough clearance to get a blade in there. Then I took a long philips screwdriver and just pounded on the seal, close to but not at the edge. It gave a little, I pounded some more. Then the other side of it (rubber) bunched up and the whole thing loosened up and came out.

Next I got my snap ring tool in there and pulled out the OD ring. Behind that ring is a bearing - well it USED TO BE a bearing. A handful of ball halves fell out when I spun it around with the screw driver. There are two snap rings that I can now see: one on the shaft (ID) and the other on the snout's inner edge (OD), both holding that bearing/shaft in place.

So you're thinking (per your 270 drawing that actually looks to be more like my outdrive, than the manual I have) that I can leave the ID ring in place, remove the outer ring and then hammer slide the shaft out. IF it comes out, there was only one bearing (or there may be another bearing as in my drawing, but the snap ring is on the OTHER engine side of the bearing).

Sound like a plan?

Jerry

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Leave the ID snap ring on. Hammer away. Make sure you have the correct bolt for that drive shaft. Another guy welded a piece of steal to the shaft and hammered it out with a slide hammer. try the bolt first.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I don't have a welder, so.....

I'm having trouble finding the right bolt size/thread. May need a trip to the hardware store, but it's looking promising so far today (now I need to order parts: what's the best place for PDS bearing, grease seals, bellows and maybe the u-joint crosses?).

Hey, thanks for your great advise help so far.

Jerry

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Hey, thanks for your great advise help so far.

My pleasure. Been there...

I would buy the parts through Iboats. The sierra ujoints are reasonable through iboats. If the items are "dealer only", You could search for a dealer near you. I've bought some parts from this site.

http://marinepartsexpress.com/

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

The hole in the end of the intermediate shaft (between engine and universal joint yoke) is 1/2" x 20. None of my local auto parts stores have that size or adapters for sale or rent, so.... I'll start a larger area search tomorrow. Might even try finding an 1/2" x 20 threaded rod, some washers and nuts and something for a sliding weight. Give it the good ol' DIY try.

later,
J

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

slide hammer needed with 1/2" x 20 threads...

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

buy the bolt and figure out a way to pull on it with a slide hammer.

Good luck!

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I now have a bolt and washer, just need to find an attachment for the slide hammer to grab it (off to the auto parts store that thinks it may be back from rental).

BTW, captmello - are you near White Bear Lake (I've raced sailboats there when the water gets soft [not winter]).

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

buy the bolt and figure out a way to pull on it with a slide hammer.

I have pulled the primary drive shaft using a 1/2"x20 bolt, some washers and a slide hammer with a 3 prong puller. Took about 6 or 7 minutes of hammering but then the bearing itself gave and the shaft came out - leaving behind its outer ring. My 3 prongs won't reach far enough into the hole to grab the other side of the bearing - in fact, there seems to be a sleeve that that bearing is snug against on the "other" side (toward engine).

And beyond that sleeve - is ANOTHER bearing! And beyond that I can see the teeth of the flywheel adapter and then a grease bearing with the rusty flywheel all the way in the back (all this in about a foot or less).

Looking at the pictures - which are more discernable than my eye in the shadows during the day outside - it looks like the outer grease bearing may have left behind its outer ring too (unsure). Or is there an inner liner within the snout with the various snap ring grooves cut in?

I don't think I can get to that other bearing - too far away for my slide hammer and adapter to reach/fit in (are there special adapters that are made for this small of a space?).

Am I now forced to take out the engine and remove the bellhousing to get at these 'things deep inside' the snout to get them out from the other side?

Ugh....


Jerry

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Some pictures:

1. 1/2"x20 nut and washer (fits into threaded shaft)

2. after 6 or 7 minutes of hammering, the PDS came out, bringing only the center of the bearing with it (leaving the outer part of the bearing still in there)

3. the PDS shaft (and slide hammer and adapter used)

4. And behind the remnants of the bearing, IS ANOTHER BEARING - too far for my hammer adapter. I was hoping there was only one, since my housing does not have the zerk grease fitting (as someone mentioned elsewhere on the web as how to tell if you have a single or two bearings in there).


How do I get that inner bearing out (and the outer part of the first one that is left behind)? Are there longer/skinnier bearing pullers available?

It looks like there may be a sleeve inside the 'snout' with the snap ring troughs cut in it. Does this whole sleeve get pressed in/out?

It's looking more and more like I have to remove the engine to get to these things deep inside (from the other side)?

Thanks for any advice or hints,
Jerry

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

buy the bolt and figure out a way to pull on it with a slide hammer.

So I've unhooked everything on the engine and will rent an engine hoist tomorrow. I also used the "threaded third hole" to get the collar to break free.

Once I get the engine out, I assume I'll be able to remove the bell housing and access the 'other' end of the drive shaft cavity that contains the other bearing.

Sure looks like there is a sleeve all the way between the two bearings equal to the thickness of the bearing outer race (about 3/32") - flush all the way back to that next bearing from the front race that was left behind when I slide hammered out the PDS (bringing the inner part of the bearing with it).

How do I get that left behind part of the bearing out? Is a bearing press needed or can I drive it AND THE SLEEVE (that is about 3" long) out the aft end of the shaft cavity?

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I'm not familiar with the "sleeve." Once the engine is out and you have the flywheel cover on a bench, it will be much easier. You should be able to drive the bearings out from behind with a drift and hammer or something like that.

The inner bearing needs to come out on the inside. Make sure your engine hoist will go high enough to clear the transom, or just get the motor out far enough to remove the flywheel cover.

I have not boated on White Bear Lake, but I've been past it many times and have worked in the area quite a bit. That lake is down a couple feet from what I've heard, just like the lakes by my house. Makes it tough at the landings.

 

[pcmpete]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Some pictures - maybe these can help where my words may not tell all.....

uppergearbox: shows the gearbox laid out on cardboard

ujoints: shows the cleaned-up u-joints (now a bit of rusting is visible)

ujointsCU: there is very little play between joints

bellhousingmedium: with bellows removed and o-ring or seal part removed from shaft

closeupSHAFTend: shouldn't there be a bearing flush with the inside edge of the bellhousing???

There is 3/16" to 1/4" of play side-to-side on this shaft (none in/out though)

What's the prognosis on the u-joints?

And how do I change the drift shaft bearing?

Thanks in advance,
Jerry

Those u-joints look very dry to me, when was the last time they got greased? They will make noises while turning if they are too dry.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Rented a TipTow towable engine hoist with the long legs and arms. It barely cleared the side of the boat, but the engine is out and the bellhousing is off. It is a "special" Waukesha (PCM) version, not the Volvo Penta variety. But I was able to find numbers on the two bearings inside.

Closet to the engine (inside the boat) is an SKF 6007 (d=35, D=62, B=14) and the aft end (outside the boat, nearest the u-joints) is an SKF 006 (d=30, D=55, B=13). So far, I haven't found any in stock locally.

I did get both bellows ($72 each) and some o-rings at my local Penta dealer (30 miles away is not exactly 'local') who steered way around my PCM parts but was willing to help with the true Volvo parts. They wanted $58 for a single U-joint (I passed, having seen Sierra units for almost half that elsewhere).

I hope I can find the bearings and grease seals tomorrow so I can button up the bellhousing with the new PDS bearings/seals so I can put the engine back in and return the engine hoist within my 24 hour rental.

More to come - but at least I have all the bad parts out!

Later,
Jerry

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Looks to me like the remnants of a Gaco oil seal. Looks like that seal is toast!

Anyone have a clue on where to find replacement oil seals for my Waukesha (PleasureCraft) PDS? Any way to cross reference these numbers?

GACO SMIM 3555/6 was on the aft end of the PDS, toward drive, u-joints.

GACO SM 35627 on the end closest to the engine.


Thanks,
Jerry