Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Local boat repair guy couldn't help me with the grease seals either, but he did say "never use them in that PCM housing, they don't really seal anyway and you're putting sealed bearings in, right? so just put the bearings in and button it up."

So I did. Still connecting everything after getting the engine back into the boat, realigned (making sure the housing distances are the same at all three tabs around the transom shield).

Only thing left is the two bellows and put the upper gear housing back on with the new o-rings and top off the oil.

Then, cross fingers......

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Well thats one way to solve it. I have seen a lot of guy come here with early 70s glastrons with volvo outdrives and Ford "Glastron" engines. It's been hard helping them because of the Glastron badging of the engine. All the marine parts are made by different companies it seems.

I'm glad to see you're putting it back together.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Status update:

It's all back together (those bellows are difficult to get on!). Started up (a surprise as I power washed the engine while is was outside the boat - bilge too (de-greaser really works!).

There is no more harmonic vibration in the power drive shaft and the upper gear casing was sounding good when I first started and idled a bit fast to keep it running (1,000rpm or so). Checking for leaks, the bellows are doing their job - but I do have a small leak around the water elbow (I hope there's a gasket or o-ring there).

But once warmed up and idled back to 650, I can now hear the u-joints making some noise that gets louder when I crank the steering hard either way. But at least I can rebuild the u-joints by just removing the upper gear assembly. My local Volvo dealer wanted $58 dollars each, and these had no zerks. I'm going to order Sierras with zerks for about half that. Then I should be good for a while.

Any advice for changing the spiders (crosses) in the u-joints (never done that before)?

Thanks for the help. This forum really helped me a lot!

Jerry

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

It may be a little tricky but you should be able to change out the ujoints just by removing the upper gear box. You don't need to disassemble the upper any more than that. The water intake fitting and gasket are critical on these drives because when the boat gets on plane, if it is leaking, it will suck air and you may overheat. Those fittings corrode easily and need to be replaced periodically.

Here's a replacement with gasket. Oring part of gasket goes down.

http://www.iboats.com/Thermostat-Housing-Sierra/dm/*******.034704839--**********.800926182--view_id.173338

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Is there a bushing inside this fitting (to allow for the swiveling)? Do I need to replace the fitting? Or is just the gasket available/sufficient?

U-joints should arrive next week - so it's off to a weekend on the 22' sailboat, racing on Huntington Lake (in the mountains east of Fresno).

Thanks,
Jerry

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Is there a bushing inside this fitting (to allow for the swiveling)? Do I need to replace the fitting? Or is just the gasket available/sufficient?

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Inte...*****.981636590--store_id.366--view_id.317506

(#11, 28 and 29)

bushing 814388 (dealer only)
hose connector 854031
seal 814356

I'll take the fitting off to "see" what is actually worn - my question: is it typical for the seal or bushing to fail and not the actual fitting? Or do I need to replace all three?

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

The bushing goes in from under the suspension fork. You have to breakdown the intermediate to replace the bushing. Just the seal and the fitting can be done from above. Those fittings and seals corrode and wear out. If the fitting is good than just order a new seal.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I removed the upper gear housing with the shaft and universal joints and put on my bench to replace the u-joints spiders. I was able to remove the outer-most spider, but there is not enough room to use my vise, nut socket (just smaller than the cap on the spider) and another socket (just large enough for the other end's cap to fit into) and pounded with a hammer until the spider moved thru. Removed the cap and pounded the spider back in and all the way thru until the opposite cap was free. Removed that cap and took out the spider.

BUT I can't get either socket to line up fully with the inner most spiders' caps so I can't pound them thru - and it looks like if I could, they'll hit the gear housing body anyway.

Do I need to remove the u-joint assembly from the gear housing to fully access that other spider?

If so, what is the minimum to do to get the u-joint shaft out?

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Pictures showing that I cannot remove the spider caps while the shaft is still in the upper gear housing.

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Hummm...I thought you could do them the way you are doing it, but I haven't done it before. When I did mine, I removed the ujoint assembly completely.
To remove the assembly, you have to remove the four clamp ring bolts that you can see clearly in your photos, #38 in the link. Once the four bolts are removed the ujoint and double bearing box will come out of the upper. Then there is a bolt in the center of the double bearing box that screws into the rear yoke of the ujoints, #35. remove the bolt and the ujoints will be free.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Upper-Gear-Unit-Aq-Drive-Unit-270-270t/dm/*******.250114321--**********.666303611--store_id.366--view_id.317448

The four bolts have a tendency to be tough ones, good luck. I would also put a little locktite on the bolt that screws into the yoke. That was the advise I received anyway.

You'll need the two orings seals, #19, for reinstall purposes.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Does removing the u-joint assembly then require 're-shimming' when put back together (I think I've seen that thread elsewhere on this forum)? Or is there some way to mark the teeth alignment to get back to the exact same inter-mesh of the gearset and the ujoint splines?

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Does the bolt #35 (holding bearing in against ujoint yoke) turn in normal fashion (lefty loosey, CCW)? It isn't budging! Don't want to strip the hex hole out with too much persuasion...using 3/8" allen (might be a tad too small).

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I took the ujoint assembly in to a mechanic to see if he could get the #35 bolt out of the end of the shaft so I could access that closest spider (my vise isn't big enough, my persuaders not strong enough).

He advised against taking the 'differential' apart, stating that he'd felt hundreds of ujoints before and that remaining one was fine. I admit there was no play at all - compared to the outer spider that did have some minor movement within the joint. It seemed like a lot of work to get the ujoint assembly out further to replace a 'good' spider and then have to deal with re-shimming, checking backlash, etc. when I put it all back together.

SO....I re-assembled the upper gear housing with just the one spider replaced (after putting new circ clips on the old spider).


Gotta get it on the water for this weekend...

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Well, once again you got it done.

I can't remember righty thighty...on that bolt.

Let us know about how the shakedown run goes.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Got it all back together in the driveway and hooked up the hose and ran it at 1,000rpm until warmed up. A silence in the outdrive that I have not heard for a long while (years in fact). What I thought was a normal "always there, but not that loud" meshing of gears in the outdrive gear housing must have been that front ujoint - because that sound is no longer there.

I do get a bit of "thumping" when I turn to either extreme, but especially to the left (port). Not the 'grrrr' from before, rather sounds like the ujoint hitting the bellows. Is that likely? Or that the inner spider that I did not change is actually faulty but only under duress in a tight turn? Or could it be the zerk in the new joint hitting the yoke (I thought I checked for clearance all around)?

To the lake tomorrow for more testing. I may be hyper sensitive, but I think I'm feeling something unbalanced at idle that I don't recall from before, but evens out above 900rpm. Could be an intermittent missing in the engine (I have put in all new plugs, wires, distributor - but still get the occasional hiccup), the new PDS bearings in a different alignment than before (but the three tabs are all within 1/16" from the housing), or the unchanged ujoint (most likely, I guess).

More to come later.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Is the bearing you are talking about the pilot bearing in the crankshaft end? There is a flex connector on the flywheel with splines that the shaft fits into. I beleive the shaft does not really move (just flexes with torque. The bearing is probably still okay, just needs some grease.

Jiom

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Is the bearing you are talking about the pilot bearing in the crankshaft end? There is a flex connector on the flywheel with splines that the shaft fits into. I beleive the shaft does not really move (just flexes with torque. The bearing is probably still okay, just needs some grease.

Jiom

My 1974 Waukesha (PCM) combination of Volvo AQ270 outdrive and Ford 302 V8 has a different bellhousing, drive shaft and primary drive bearing arrangement than most. It has a shorter shaft and two bearings on it - one accessible from the water/outside, the other only accessible after removing the engine and the bellhousing.

I pulled the engine and replaced both drive shaft bearings with pre-greased sealed bearings and ensured the engine went back into the same spot with the alignment within spec (within 1/16" on each of the three tabs).

The thumping I'm now hearing seems only half the frequency as the "grrrr" I was hearing before, leading to that thought about the zerk hitting something (where the ujoints would make noise twice or four times per revolution of the shaft, the zerk would only 'thump' once). But it only happens near fully articulated turns (near the ends of the steering throw).

Off to the lake for a shakedown on the water...

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Sorry, I didn't see the last page. It looks like you were successful. I have a 74 Glastron powered similar to yours with a 270/302. I pulled the engine after being in storage for 10 years and went through it. That made everything easier to get to, for sure.

A few notes. I was told that the two seals on the drive shaft do not make much difference as long as the bellows are in good shape. I was also told you could pull the plug out and add grease to the cavity that the shaft rides in.

The yoke on the U-joint runs on the large seal. Mine was a little pitted and I had it built up and ground at a machine shop. My Volvo parts guy was unable to find the big rear seal but I picked one up at a bearing house. The original was rubber coated--the new seal was not. I also replaced the bearing from one at the bearing house.

Some oddities about the Glastron:

It had a 351 head and was rated at 200 hp. It had a 4bbl carburetor (Holley) with no J-tubes.

It had an odd raw water pump that may be the same as yours. It has a plastic body. It is now obsolete and later replaced by a bronze body one. If you need more information on the source, let me know.

I pulled my 270 drive down and it was in perfect shape. I replaced all the seals. The drive is built like a tank. I changed the oil in the drive yearly. It takes almost three quarts. It also lets you see if you have accumulated any water in the oil.

Check your shift cable. Mine was about to go. I replaced it while the engine was out but I have heard it is a bear to get to. It only cost $40.

Where the unit pivots: The pivot bearing (needle bearing) was shot on mine and I wrecked the upper plastic bearing the shaft out. The needle bearing is on order. Be sure to grease your bearing regularly but gently. There are seals at each end.

Sorry I came across your post so late.



Jim

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I was told that in the era of these boats there was a bunch of oddball things done.

Oh, and another couple of notes.

I had the valves ground and was told the head was old and had no inserts on the valve seats.

Mine has an Osco manifold with Glastron cast into it. It is a log manifold and I had a hard time finding gaskets.

Also, the engine has a Mallory distributor. I replaced it with a new one that is breakerless.

I am going to rebuild the carburetor and there is a posting that has some good tips.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Jim

 

[jerrymlewis]

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

A few notes. I was told that the two seals on the drive shaft do not make much difference as long as the bellows are in good shape. I was also told you could pull the plug out and add grease to the cavity that the shaft rides in.

I was told the same by a mechanic who pointed out that the seal was over the spline area of the shaft. So I left that outermost seal off and reused the innermost seal. I put in sealed bearings in both spots (from the engine side is a larger SKF 6007 bearing and a smaller SKF 6006 on the aft end of the drive shaft, in the 'snout').

The yoke on the U-joint runs on the large seal.

Now I realize that the yoke may go over that spline and create a tight seal. I did NOT put any grease in the bell housing hole/plug. Maybe I should...

It had an odd raw water pump that may be the same as yours. It has a plastic body. It is now obsolete and later replaced by a bronze body one. If you need more information on the source, let me know.

Yes, my raw water pump is a plastic housing that I replaced about 6 or 7 years ago - lucky to find a replacement. I change the impeller every season, just to be safe - and NEVER run it when dry, not even for a few seconds.

Those bronze pumps are pricey, I hope to keep this one going for a while - the prior one cracked when I forgot to drain the water from the pump line before a big freeze (which is rare here in northern California foothills).

Thanks for the notes/tidbits.