Using a trickle charger in boat?

[joewithaboat]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

I'm currently using one of these. Switching it every so often between the boat and a car i dont drive often.
Seems to be working great. Batteries are always very strong. Using quick connect kit on each, it comes with one.

http://batterytender.com/automotive/battery-tender-junior-12v-at-0-75a.html

 

[Expidia]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Unless you operate the battery in an exact state of ideal conditions for it, from perfect discharge and charging, exact/proper storage and an ideal recharge to the ideal capacity from a very good charger, you are basically using something that isn't perfect. Like tires or brakes on a car, or even fresh oil, it becomes a issue of understanding that your battery is very unlikely to be perfect.

The OP is using a cheap Harbor Freight charger and is concerned about recharging risks with a covered boat, fumes and a tank awfully close to the battery. All this for one month layups? Maybe two? This is why I eluded to the oil discussion. I think all this is akin to 3000 mile oil changes.

I know what you mean about oil discussions, batteries etc. But everyone uses their rigs differently. If I never asked the question for a better way to keep a battery topped of I never would have seen the responses to check out an onboard charger. I actually did look at this accessory 5 years ago but ruled it out as an expensive unnecessary add on for my small rig.

But then as my needs and habits evolved the responses made me realize that this is exactly what "I" need for the way I use my rig.
Sometimes I get back from a 3 hour drive home, put the charger on the trolling battery and then fall asleep and never topped of the starter battery from heavy stereo use during the day.

It's posts like Bruces link to "conditioning batteries" that really help boaters out especially newbies. I actually had read that in these forums years ago and had my Daughter read it too. My batteries usually last 5 years. She was going through her own two trolling batteries every two years, because she would run them down flat and not charge them for a few days. Once she shelled out for two new batteries, she became a belieiver in links like the battery conditioning ones.

After ingesting what I read in this thread it's now clear to me that both of us for the way we use our rigs end of the day and maintenance purposes would be better off coming home and just plugging an AC cord into a socket mounted convieniently on the rig and walking away knowing we are automatically maximzing the life of of all of our batteries without having to yank any of them out of our rigs.

I never liked using a portable charger over night at hotels for fear that someone would eventually snatch it out of the boat. So I used a $30 Black and Decker. But this in itself is dangerous since I keep it running under the covered rig. If the BD ever shorted out under the cover . . . end of boating season!

 

[lncoop]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

I never liked using a portable charger over night at hotels for fear that someone would eventually snatch it out of the boat. So I used a $30 Black and Decker. But this in itself is dangerous since I keep it running under the covered rig. If the BD ever shorted out under the cover . . . end of boating season!

This is where the on board charger really shines, at least for me. On an extended boating trip I just throw an extension cord in the boat and plug it in at the transient slip, cabin, hotel, etc. Words can't describe how handy that is. No messing around with batteries or portable chargers, no debating with myself whether I really need to recharge, no worrying about whether it's going to rain while the charger is doing its thing,............ Also, I recommend a little portable GFI. They can be found just about anywhere.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

A proper battery should have sufficient capacity to sit a month or two. The whole battery issue stands to go the way of an oil thread.

Trickle charge away. One more thing that some must do, while others never see a need. Should I find a need to trickle charge my batteries, or should the trickle-charging boater find a way to not pour even more maintenance into their barge?

I've got a li'l boat, and it sits for six month stretches without an issue. My bigger boats always had a similar experience.

Ain't anecdotal evidence great?

My boat sat from the first week in October in an uncontrolled temperature shed and fired up first turn of the key last week. Didn't even unhook the battery terminals...

 

[lncoop]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

My boat sat from the first week in October in an uncontrolled temperature shed and fired up first turn of the key last week. Didn't even unhook the battery terminals...

Mine didn't. More anecdotal evidence.

 

[Philster]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Just discussion to find the happy medium between obsessive maintenance that is hard to keep up and might be unnecessary with smart, easy maintenance that doesn't distract from happy boating.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Plugging in a battery tender takes all of 30 seconds. Cost 40 bucks. I wish all boating maintenance was that easy.

http://batterytender.com/automotive/battery-tender-junior-12v-at-0-75a.html

 

[Expidia]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

This is where the on board charger really shines, at least for me. On an extended boating trip I just throw an extension cord in the boat and plug it in at the transient slip, cabin, hotel, etc. Words can't describe how handy that is. No messing around with batteries or portable chargers, no debating with myself whether I really need to recharge, no worrying about whether it's going to rain while the charger is doing its thing,............ Also, I recommend a little portable GFI. They can be found just about anywhere.

Thx Incoop, excellleeent point on the GFI. For $15 each I'm going to pick up a few of them. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten back to the hotel and fiddling around with the portable charger cables while leaning into my aluminum boat. The boats not grounded since its on rubber tires until I'm touching it while wearing damp Crocks, its raining or I'm still wait from getting caught in a rainstorm on the water. Then I'm making a Human ground
Those poles at the hotels for boaters to hook their chargers to always made me nervous, even though they probably have GFI's by code I'd hate to choose the faulty one. Other times I'm passing the extension cord out a motel window which unless its the bathroom recepticle I'm sure there is no GFI on it.

Don't like to lug a trolling battery into the room either (been there, done that) batteries give off explosive gas while charging. Never check a cell for its water level with a match

Great suggestion. . . Once again another thing I've never thought of . . . Using a portable GFI!

 

[Expidia]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

I use this "smart" charger. It will turn off once the battery is charged. Comes with a quick disconnect so it's easy to hook and unhook.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...X&ei=taaYT6vlNYns2gW128ibBw&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAA#

One still has to hook everything up after each outing and I have two batteries and my Doughter has 3. For $39 each it's not as cost effective and convenient as an onboard charger that does it all by just plugging in the AC cord. I'd have to spend $39 for each battery or I tend to fall asleep after I get home and forget to go back out to the garage to switch it over to the next battery many hours later.

That device is ideal for maintaining batteries over the winter in my basement. But the $6!Harbor Freight ones do the same thing. We have like 6 of them. We have like 7 batteries stored over each winter. I'm in battery Hell. But at least my Daughters moving out and taking her 2 boats and 3 batteries with her . . . Yeaaa!

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Battery Tender also has multi bank units

http://batterytender.com/rv/4-bank-international-charger-usa-western-hemisphere.html

Look around there site they have sealed marine units if you have the boat in a slip or stored on the water. they are big money though.

I dont know about the boating world, but in the automotive world these guys have a stellar reputation.

 

[Philster]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Plugging in a battery tender takes all of 30 seconds. Cost 40 bucks. I wish all boating maintenance was that easy.

http://batterytender.com/automotive/battery-tender-junior-12v-at-0-75a.html

The OP was going to get a lot more involved to care for the battery than just that.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

The OP was going to get a lot more involved to care for the battery than just that.

Sorry i thought in his original post he was looking to keep the batteries topped off and not worry about sparking a fire. He said he was not happy with the cheap trickle charger.

To the o/p
This is a quote from the B/T website on the difference between what you are using and what i am proposing. Also the unit does not have to be near the battery or boat. They sell 25 foot leads.


The Battery Tender Plus battery charger delivers 1.25 amperes during bulk charge mode, holds the battery charge voltage constant at 14.4 VDC during absorption charge mode until the battery charge current drops to 0.1 amperes at which time it then automatically switches to a float charge mode. During float charge mode, the output voltage of the Battery Tender Plus battery charger is 13.2 VDC, which is well below the gassing voltage of a lead acid battery. This keeps the battery topped off, while minimizing any detrimental effects to do gassing. The Battery Tender Plus battery charger is able to perform these complex switching functions because its electronic circuitry is controlled by an on board microprocessor.

Although they often appear to be a better economic choice for the typical consumer, trickle chargers do not have the advantage of sophisticated electronic control. Therefore, as they allow the value of charge current to trickle down to what appears to be safe levels, the output voltage of the charger rises well above 15 VDC, sometimes even going higher that 16 VDC depending on the charger type and the battery that is connected to it. Either voltage is well above the gassing voltage of a lead acid battery. If the battery remains connected to this high level of voltage for an extended period of time, even less than 1 day, extreme damage can be done to the battery. What appears to be a cost savings for the charger may actually cost several times the charger price in replacement batteries.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Sorry i thought in his original post he was looking to keep the batteries topped off and not worry about sparking a fire. He said he was not happy with the cheap trickle charger.

To the o/p
This is a quote from the B/T website on the difference between what you are using and what i am proposing. Also the unit does not have to be near the battery or boat. They sell 25 foot leads.


The Battery Tender Plus battery charger delivers 1.25 amperes during bulk charge mode, holds the battery charge voltage constant at 14.4 VDC during absorption charge mode until the battery charge current drops to 0.1 amperes at which time it then automatically switches to a float charge mode. During float charge mode, the output voltage of the Battery Tender Plus battery charger is 13.2 VDC, which is well below the gassing voltage of a lead acid battery. This keeps the battery topped off, while minimizing any detrimental effects to do gassing. The Battery Tender Plus battery charger is able to perform these complex switching functions because its electronic circuitry is controlled by an on board microprocessor.

Although they often appear to be a better economic choice for the typical consumer, trickle chargers do not have the advantage of sophisticated electronic control. Therefore, as they allow the value of charge current to trickle down to what appears to be safe levels, the output voltage of the charger rises well above 15 VDC, sometimes even going higher that 16 VDC depending on the charger type and the battery that is connected to it. Either voltage is well above the gassing voltage of a lead acid battery. If the battery remains connected to this high level of voltage for an extended period of time, even less than 1 day, extreme damage can be done to the battery. What appears to be a cost savings for the charger may actually cost several times the charger price in replacement batteries.

Thx for that explanation. I thought your first link was for just another trickle charger. That link to the 4 bank full blown onboard charger is great as I like especially like the 3 lb weight. But we have two boats with two batteries so far the 2 Noco's at $132 each might be more cost effective for me.
I'll check through Battery Tenders site for a 2 bank unit which might weigh even less.
This is just the type of input I was looking for now that I know the direction I'm going.

Funny note, through Google I was brought to Cabelas Pro Sport brand which have an average of 4 stars out their 152 reviews.
Yet, when reading the reviews most are 1 star and the units died in 6 months to a year and had to be returned for yet another faulty unit. Funny math on how Pro Sport probably has bogus positive reviews sent in to offset the negative ones. I just read an article on how hotels and others product review sites send in bogus reviews which is normal for this review site stuff!

Thx for any input on anyone with a quality, lightweight 2 bank cost effective unit as I need two of them.

Just checked battery tenders site for a two bank. You were right they are pricey . . . $249 yikes!

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

You were right they are pricey . . . $249 yikes!

I was turned on to them by some friends that use them at what I call their "Toy Garage".

They have a 2,000 sq ft. shop for their toys... 3 boats, 5 motor cycles, 3 jet ski's, 3 cars. They have used them for years, on everything, and say they get 10 years out of some of their batteries. I to have multiple vehicles etc and it seems i was buying a battery every couple years for something.

I have only owned one for a year or so, but so far i like it. Before i was using by battery charger on trickle. I did however burn one up when i forgot and left it on too long.

I'm skimping by with the cheapest one and just moving it form one to the other ever couple weeks.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Been using this one for a year and been happy with it. http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/s...10151_10051_10616_-1?ICID=CRT:0105-02653-2612 I had one of the Mariner Pro Sport models on a previous barge and it was fine as well. Can't remember how long I had it though.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Update: Thanks for that post to your Guest unit Incoop. That would have been the model I was going to go for . . . but after reading up on many of the various popular brands available . . . I was surprised to see how many of the name brand units died during the first year or 2. Most cases they were exchanged back for another one of the same model.

Maybe Noco has not had as many bounce backs since they are the new kid on the block, but for their cost Noco so far has a great track record with many users.
They carry a high list price at $357 MSRP, price was why I previously avoided looking into onboard chargers, but I was able to purchase the Noco Genius 20 amp, 2 bank, 12-24 volt model with a 3 year warranty for $172 shipped. It's spark free (most are) and uses an 8 step mutli stage process and shuts on and off every 24 hours to maintain the charge at 100%.

This unit does weigh 5.7 lbs, but overall is smaller and more compact at 7 by 6 inches. I was looking for lighter, but where its being mounted in the back battery locker I now keep a Pelican box with tools and emergency stuff which weighs about 10 lbs, moving it to a forward locker will help to offset the weight of the Noco

Noco also makes a 10 amp 3.7 lb unit which can be found for $113, but it serves only one battery (one bank).

Looking forward to getting it installed because now when I return from a boat trip, I have to pull off the back of the boat's trailering cover, open the battery hatch, plug in a dongle in the battery hatch that I have feeding up to the trolling battery in the front locker. Then when that one is charged (like 6-10 hours later) I then have to remember to switch my old portable charger's clamps over to the starter battery to top that one off (which I have usually run down during the day playing the stereo for hours at a time).

I also just ordered a Marinco thru the hull AC receptacle to go on the side of the rig, park it in the garage, plug in an AC cord and walk away and open a beer! Now that's boating

Only problem is now, I'll need to spring for another $172 to do the same for my Daughter's rig before she blows herself up with that trickle charger that she uses under her covered boat. I need a two bank unit for her as she uses a trolling battery too.

Pictured below is what the Noco looks like.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Good work, sounds like you should do hers first.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

I charged mine full at the end of the season and gave them a full at the start and thats been my process for 30 years.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Using a trickle charger in boat?

Update: the finished product . . . First Nocco Genius unit came with a small crack in the housing. Looked like it was done at the factory, so they emailed me a UPS call tag and the new replacement unit was delivered last week.
Fit very nicely in the battery locker (can be mounted at any position). Still have some extra storage area left because this 2 bank unit is smaller than most others.
That Marinco plug pictured top left was already installed by me 4 years ago Back then, I ran two heavy wires up through the gunnel up to the troller battery in the forward hatch so I could charge both batteries from the transom area with my portable charger.

Mounted the new Marinco male receptacle near the transom on the rear casting deck, so I did not have to drill more holes in my hull.

Now I back the boat into the garage and don't even have to remove the trailering cover. I just flip up the back flap and plug in the AC cord.

Thx to all for your suggestions. Now I just have to figure how to do a similar setup for my Daughter's boat, but cheaper