Upgrading trailer tires and rims - need advice

[apw30534]

I did exactly this conversion last year and it works great. Currently running 205/75-15's.
Took off the 13" package and swapped it over to my landscape trailer. Took the 15" setup off the landscape trailer and put it on the boat trailer.
It tows much better and has plenty of clearance when going in/out of my driveway.

 

[poconojoe]

I went from bias to radial and it was a world of difference.
It now rides like it's on a cushion of air.
A huge improvement!
The bias tires were like Fred Flintstone's tires, made of stone.

 

[j cat]

I have a 1986 ez loader trailer with a surge brake . same tire size. when I do not use the trailer , I cover the tires with a tarp .. then use a silicone spray to protect it . tires last around 20 yrs ... 2 axles .
if your putting tires on a dirt road you have to use a concrete block or stone to keep the tire treads to damage the rubber on the dirt. .. https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Tires-and-Wheels/Kenda/AM1ST51.html

 

[JimS123]

I went from bias to radial and it was a world of difference.
It now rides like it's on a cushion of air.
A huge improvement!
The bias tires were like Fred Flintstone's tires, made of stone.

My trailers with bias tires run just fine. If I keep an eye out for sidewall cracking, I'm OK. With minimal use I have successfully had bias last for years and years.

I switched to radial because bias weren't available any more. I see no discernible difference in the ride. What I DO see it tires self destructing in 3 or 4 years.

Bias all the way.

Obviously, YMMV.....

 

[poconojoe]

My trailers with bias tires run just fine. If I keep an eye out for sidewall cracking, I'm OK. With minimal use I have successfully had bias last for years and years.

I switched to radial because bias weren't available any more. I see no discernible difference in the ride. What I DO see it tires self destructing in 3 or 4 years.

Bias all the way.

Obviously, YMMV.....

Oh that's interesting. That's a different experience from mine.

When I switched to radials I felt a huge difference in ride.
I didn't realize it before I did the switch, but the biased ones gave a rock hard ride and the trailer seemed to bounce more. The radials are smooth, like a cushion.
Maybe the biased tires were old and got hard from their age?

I wonder if the weight or type of trailer/boat makes the difference?
I never weighed my rig, but my boat itself is supposed to be about 3,000 pounds. Plus the weight of the trailer.

 

[JimS123]

Oh that's interesting. That's a different experience from mine.

When I switched to radials I felt a huge difference in ride.
I didn't realize it before I did the switch, but the biased ones gave a rock hard ride and the trailer seemed to bounce more. The radials are smooth, like a cushion.
Maybe the biased tires were old and got hard from their age?

I wonder if the weight or type of trailer/boat makes the difference?
I never weighed my rig, but my boat itself is supposed to be about 3,000 pounds. Plus the weight of the trailer.

I have run 12", 13" and 14" bias tires on single and tandem axle trailers. In every case, the tire and spring capacity was designed to meet the load, not grossly exceed it. I also run an appropriate pressure.

Given a choice, I choose bias because of safety and longevity. When I say "safety", when I have a 3 year old radial tire totally disintegrate at only 65 mph I consider that "not safe". Not just once, and not just me....google ST radial catastrophes.

I don't mean to dictate what others do. Do as you think or read on the internet. As far as I'm concerned, my 54 years of pulling boat trailers dictates what I chose to do.

Currently, one of my boat trailers have only one option. Radials. So be it. I'll just suck it up.

 

[poconojoe]

I have run 12", 13" and 14" bias tires on single and tandem axle trailers. In every case, the tire and spring capacity was designed to meet the load, not grossly exceed it. I also run an appropriate pressure.

Given a choice, I choose bias because of safety and longevity. When I say "safety", when I have a 3 year old radial tire totally disintegrate at only 65 mph I consider that "not safe". Not just once, and not just me....google ST radial catastrophes.

I don't mean to dictate what others do. Do as you think or read on the internet. As far as I'm concerned, my 54 years of pulling boat trailers dictates what I chose to do.

Currently, one of my boat trailers have only one option. Radials. So be it. I'll just suck it up.

I tried to Google that and I got nothing. I'm not doubting you at all. I blame disinformation for most likely blocking those articles.

I assume the problems you have experienced have only been with trailer tires.

I wonder why trailer tires are not up to par with our vehicle tires? Or is it what trailer tires are subjected to?

Maybe due to sub-par suspensions compared to cars/trucks? IE: no shocks, sway arms, etc. in most cases.

Maybe the fact that trailers are much lighter than cars?

Maybe the fact that trailer tires are used less and sit idle for most of their life?

Are they made with different materials?

And if car tires are indeed better made than trailer tires, why can't they be used on trailers?

Just some of the things I wonder....

 

[JASinIL2006]

Oh that's interesting. That's a different experience from mine.

When I switched to radials I felt a huge difference in ride.
I didn't realize it before I did the switch, but the biased ones gave a rock hard ride and the trailer seemed to bounce more. The radials are smooth, like a cushion.
Maybe the biased tires were old and got hard from their age?

I wonder if the weight or type of trailer/boat makes the difference?
I never weighed my rig, but my boat itself is supposed to be about 3,000 pounds. Plus the weight of the trailer.

My experience when switching to radials was just as you describe. Noticeably smoother.

 

[Lou C]

I tried to Google that and I got nothing. I'm not doubting you at all. I blame disinformation for most likely blocking those articles.

I assume the problems you have experienced have only been with trailer tires.

I wonder why trailer tires are not up to par with our vehicle tires? Or is it what trailer tires are subjected to?

Maybe due to sub-par suspensions compared to cars/trucks? IE: no shocks, sway arms, etc. in most cases.

Maybe the fact that trailers are much lighter than cars?

Maybe the fact that trailer tires are used less and sit idle for most of their life?

Are they made with different materials?

And if car tires are indeed better made than trailer tires, why can't they be used on trailers?

Just some of the things I wonder....

Go over to The Hull Truth trailers forum you’ll find plenty to read about steel radial trailer tire problems. To sum up, there is a long history of problems with steel belted radial tires going back to the mid 70s with the Firestone 500 debacle & recall and then again in the early 2000s with the Firestone Wilderness AT recall (Ford Explorer standard tire). What was found in both of these & other similar cases:
The design of steel radial tires requires that the steel belts bond to the rubber plies and that the tread layers & steel belts bond to the underlying sidewall plies. This means that the required quality control in materials for safe radial construction is far beyond that required for a simple nylon ply bias tire. Centrifugal force can acutally lift the steel belts under the tread away from the sidewall body plies with total failure happening soon there after. In fact what was found in the original Firestone cases is that they did not upgrade their equipment from bias ply tire construction; this and other quality control issues were noted. So what does this mean? If you buy steel belted tires from countries where quality control is questionable beware! It is a shame that Michelin, Continental and Bridgestone don’t make steel radial tires in the right sizes for boat trailers (14”, 15”). For now the only trailer tires I would buy are good (Kenda) bias tires that I’ve used for years without failures (not even a flat) or the Goodyear Endurance radial.
IMHO bias tires are lousy to drive on in vehicles (yes I’m old enough to remember when they were standard equipment) but in all the years we had bias or fiberglass belted bias tires we NEVER had a tread separation. The first car we had with steel radials DID have a tread separation on a long return from college run 1978, General steel radial . After that the only radials I’d buy were Michelin or Continental.
So that’s my take on radial trailer tires…

 

[dingbat]

I wonder why trailer tires are not up to par with our vehicle tires? Or is it what trailer tires are subjected to?

Maybe due to sub-par suspensions compared to cars/trucks? IE: no shocks, sway arms, etc. in most cases.

Maybe the fact that trailers are much lighter than cars?

Maybe the fact that trailer tires are used less and sit idle for most of their life?

Are they made with different materials?

And if car tires are indeed better made than trailer tires, why can't they be used on trailers?

Just some of the things I wonder....

And I wonder why some like myself that run many, many miles a year and have never lost a tire in 25 years of towing while others loose tires, sometimes multiple, on a regular basis? Hummmm

 

[Lou C]

Variable quality control as I said
And, very few people ever weigh their loaded trailers so don’t know that they are overloaded
Cheap skate trailer companies sticking to 15” rims that max out with a 225/75-15 Load Range E tire giving 2830 lbs max.
If a six lug axle & hubs were used you could go to far higher load capacity 16” tires.
The typical tow vehicle has a 20-30% safety margin at full load pressures. Most trailers have 10% (industry standard) at most, and many have none because they are overloaded. This again is cost savings and nothing more. Not rocket science.
Best advice I could give is get your trailer weighed and you want at least that 10% safety margin at full load inflation pressures. Replace tires when you see any significant sidewall or tread cracking.

 

[dingbat]

Replace tires when you see any significant sidewall or tread cracking.

If you see ANY cracking or dry rot on a sidewalk of the tire, your long past the tires “expiration date” of 6 years from date of manufacturer.

Was reminded of this last Spring when we took the horse trailer on a 400 mile round trip.
Checked everything on the trailer prior to leaving. Everything looked good.

Fast forward three weeks. The wife pulls in from horse back riding and I see something weird with a tire. Upon closer inspection, a 6” x width of the tire had separated but was still attached. Further inspection of the others turned up another tire in almost as bad off condition. Mind you this is 3 weeks after a through visual as inspection that turned up nothing

Turns out, shame on me, the tires had a manufacture date of 2012. Fours years past the tore’s expectation date… no wonder

Tire Safety: Expiration Dates - Farm Safety Makes YOU the Hero

Did you know your tires have an expiration date?

ag-safety.extension.org

 

[JimS123]

And if car tires are indeed better made than trailer tires, why can't they be used on trailers?

They CAN be if the weight capacity of the car tire meets the requirements of the trailer.

They are NOT usually used because of the capacity issue, plus the fact that all the pundits say you can't.

The sidewall of a ST tire says not to be used on a vehicle with passengers aboard. That statement alone should tell you something.

Regardless, not worth debating.

 

[JimS123]

If you see ANY cracking or dry rot on a sidewalk of the tire, your long past the tires “expiration date” of 6 years from date of manufacturer.

That's quite true. The problem is that ST tires sometimes fail when they are less than 6 years old, were fully aired and not run at excessive speed.

In 55+ years of driving I had exactly one single set of car tires go bad. All 4 tires had tread separation. However, it was a used car and I have no way of knowing how the PO treated them.

During the same time period I had 3 incidents of disaster with radial STs, and all were newer and properly maintained.

The real kicker though is my 1984 TeeNee trailer that came from the factory with bias ply auto tires. They lasted 20 years and even when I replaced them they still looked good.

 

[poconojoe]

Good conversation.

Yeah, I had one of those '92 Explorers with the Firestones. They replaced them for free.

I also remember the switch over from biased to radials. It was all the rage at the time.

 

[Lou C]

So do I. The public was told the advantages of radials (better ride, better cornering, longer tread life and cooler operating temps) but not of the dark side, that is, cheaply made radials are dangerous. More dangerous than a bias ply tire IMHO. In fact one of the states highway patrol depts, I forget which went BACK to bias belted tires (fiberglass belted bias ply like the famous Goodyear Polyglas tires) because tread separations with radial tires of the day. Then, only a Michelin, Continental or Pirelli was worth buying. Now, car radials rarely have a problem, but trailer radials, well, I said what I think, good bias ply or GY Endurance, not willing to take a chance on radials from the far east. Unless Japanese or maybe Korean.

 

[76SeaRay]

Interesting article on ST versus LT for trailers located here:

Trailer Towing – ST Tires vs. LT Tires

Let me begin by saying when it comes to the type of tires to use on a travel trailer or 5th wheel trailer I think there is a lack of information and understanding on the topic. If you head over to …

rvingwithmarkpolk.com

It talks about RV trailers but much of the information would probably apply to boat trailers.

 

[poconojoe]

Interesting article on ST versus LT for trailers located here:

Trailer Towing – ST Tires vs. LT Tires

Let me begin by saying when it comes to the type of tires to use on a travel trailer or 5th wheel trailer I think there is a lack of information and understanding on the topic. If you head over to …

rvingwithmarkpolk.com

It talks about RV trailers but much of the information would probably apply to boat trailers.

Good article.
Answers some questions.

My thoughts [about the ST tires] were that they were not as durable and had weaker sidewalls, when the opposite is true!
I thought trailers, since they are lighter and have no steering, presented less of a strain on the sidewalls. The opposite is true with that as well!

 

[Lou C]

The idea of using LT tires can work provided that they have enough load capacity for it to work for you. The issue is this:
most 225/75-15 tires are standard load and limited to approx 1850 lbs which is like 1000 lbs less than a good E load range trailer tire in the same size
if you go up to an LT 235/75-15 you can find Load Range E tires and then you are close, 2755 lbs @ 80psi, but there are only a few.
this is why some say if you want to go to LT tires, you need to go to a 16" rim, which as far as I know, requires a 6 lug hub as well. this will give you a far greater choice of tires, but adds a lot of cost, because if you have a 3500 lb axle, you will have to upgrade it to one that will take 6 lug hubs which is a 5200 lb and up capacity axle. Once you get into the 5200, 6000 and 7000 lb axles, you have more choices. The big difference is the outer bearings and hubs, the inner bearings for all 3 are the same. The 6000 axle uses a bigger outer bearing than the 5200, still with a 6 lug hub, and the 7000 uses a bigger one than the 6000 (and uses 8 lug hubs) The axles themselves are all use the same #42 spindle.
But again that cost (450 or so for a good galvanized axle, plus bigger hubs, brakes, wheels and tires, really adds up). I did this on my single axle, the axle was $445, 12" brakes approx $500, and rims, about $75 each (had to buy 3 with one for a spare). I already had 3 good 15" Load Range D tires , but will upgrade them to E when the time comes.
So it really depends on if your trailer has plenty of safety margin with 15" tires, or not. For me it is fine with Load Range D 15" tires but if I were trailering long distances I'd get Load Range E for sure.

 

[matt167]

It should be noted, as I have in the past. That the ST on the sidewall of a trailer tire has to do with the construction of the sidewall not being designed for a steerable axle.. But LT tires can be rated for trailer duty, just not all are. Most would be acceptable though.. I know Airstream actually puts Michelin LT's on as an option. I put Kumho AT51's on a cable roller trailer for the local telecom company. They were 225/75R16. Swapped the size because they had rotted 6 lug 15" wheels, and 6 lug 15's are rare. At the time even Etrailer was backordered

Also. Goodyear Endurance appears to be back in production. My shop has gotten several in, and availability is pretty good at this point.