Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

[Boomyal]

In a previous post, from one of the forum's great and wise floor rebuilders, a somewhat tongue and cheek comment was made about using plastic pop bottles in place of foam. <br /><br />After reading many posts about the cost and hassle of administering a re-foam job, this comment continued to stick with me. In addition to the forementioned problems, associated with a re-foam job, the spectre of getting the new foam re-weted, with new water trapped below decks after going thru the rebuild, continued to bother me.<br /><br />How about using PING PONG BALLS instead? I assume you could obtain them economically, they would fill the space better than bottles and there would be no lids to worry about.<br /><br />Something else that you could do, using non-foam floatation, is make drain holes thru your stringers and cross pieces so that any water that would find it's way below deck could exit via the bilge. <br /><br />Any comments are welcome. I face a re-decking this winter and I only want to do it one time and have it last till the hull falls away from the new deck in a pile of chips and fibers.

 

[DJ]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

Boomyal,<br /><br />I think the soda containers would work well. They're tough as nails and I wouldn't worry about the lids. Epoxy them on.<br /><br />Ping pong balls. I guess, why not! <br /><br />The best solution is probably proving adequate drainage. That is NOT a step that many boatbuilders take time to add.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

When I was redoing my boat, I was struggling with the whole foam thing. My wallet kept shreaking in protest over the thought of spending all that loot. I searched for alternatives. One idea I had was to use 4 inch PVC drainfield pipes, capped at each end. The drainfield pipe is thinner than regular pvc plumbing pipe, so it is lighter. I was going to make as many tubes as long as possible and as many as I could fit in the stringer voids, and the use 2 part foam to fill in the rest, sort of like rebar in concrete. It was all fine until I did the math. It would have ended up costing a bit more than if I just used straight foam. Needless to say, foam it was. <br /><br />I think using sealed containers like antfreeze jugs or something like that could work, but as was pointed out by someone, temperature can affect the size and volume of the plastc containers, changing the amount of water displaced. I would image the change is minor. I like to use foam because it also adds structure. If you seal everything well, and don't let it set in rain and snow constantly, keep control of the amount of water that gets in the boat, the foam should'nt absorb water for a very long time. The new foams are far more resistant to absorbtion than the old foams used in older boats. If ou do find an alternative, thats cool too, just make sure you share the results....Good luck..

 

[Bondo]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

There's Nothing tongue n' cheek about the Soda Bottles....<br />A gallon of Air Floats more than a gallon of Foam(the weight of the foam)(or Wet Foam in a few years)....<br />The Soda Bottles are Self Draining(around them)......<br />Many Sizes for filling All the Nooks + Cranies......<br />Virtually Industructable......<br />And FREE.....<br /><br />Bilge Drainage thru limber holes is a Must....... <br />It'll even "Slow" the water absorbstion in Foam.....<br />I Wish boat manufacturers would learn,<br /> There's No Such Thing as a "WaterProof Compartment" !!!!

 

[Uncle Dave]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

If doing all the work to restore and repair a boat it just makes sense to spend a few buck for the correct 2 part foam. No fuss and not hassle to install. No long term problems.<br />Many bottles will biodegrade in a couple of years. Faster if outside but even in the shade of your deck I would suspect they still degrade in 2 or 3 years.<br />There is no cure for water between the hull and foam. Capilary action will hold it in there. Good foam will not hold water, just that held by capilary action. Probably no more than a few pounds. But enough to set up a condition of rot.<br />SOO seal the deck very good and keep the water out if at all possible.<br />Fitz.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

So, Bondo, your were the culprit? Soda bottles or ping pong balls. Do you think I should go for it? I'm not convinced that foam adds a significant amount of structural rigidity anyway. If I go that way I may consider a 3/4 inch floor.<br /><br />Mr Fitz: I'm not so sure about the biodegradable issue. It might bear some looking into.

 

[catfish1]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

I'm not convinced that foam adds a significant amount of structural rigidity anyway

yes it does! the difference is, if you use two part foam, you can use 1/2" ply. if you use no foam you will need 3/4" ply. and the 1/2" ply will be more solid if done right! the foam will also provide a sound barrior. todays foam is way more water resistant than it used to be! but yes, it can be messy!<br />the only thing i'd be worried about "using pop bottles" is the air in the bottles will expand and contract and can develope a leak around the lid, if the bottle gets water in it, you'll never get it out!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

Well Catfish1, that's why ping ping pong balls would be better. No Lids. The sound issue you bring up is a good one, but as far as strength, I would double up on my stringers and use a 3/4" floor. That would be better for anchoring my seat boxes anyway.

 

[catfish1]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

i'm not sure about ping pong balls. i wonder if the balls would stay in if you hit something hard enough to gash the hull? some thing to think about! i too have tried to think of cheaper and better ways to do it, but i seem to always go with the foam. its proven, its safe! and usually in the end, its cheaper.

 

[1965MT]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

I am replacing the floor in my boat and I am concerned about the foam. I like the soda botte approach or the ping pong ball solution. Since I don't have the luxury of having done it before,,, I have to consider the options. It did make me think of a product that I have used before.<br /><br /> http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...e=Spheres&product_id=Plastic+Floating+Spheres

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

1965MT, how have you used these spheres? I have an account with USP. I just emailed them for the cubic volume of each 1000 of the 3/4" balls. I like the idea of the smaller ones and they say they are resistant to everything.

 

[catfish1]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

on that link they talk mostly about the heat the balls can withstand but what is most important is what cold they will withstand. they briefly mention about cold temperatures, and that the polyethelene withstands cold temps with "less" stress cracks. i dont know about you guys, but i would'nt want any cracks in the balls that are supposed to save myself & boat from sinking to the bottom of the lake! the foam makes more sense now, doesnt it?

 

[ManOverboard]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

If you have a friend who owns an adult bookstore you might get a great price on blow-up dolls which would make great flotation!<br /><br />It would take several, placed tightly together in the "spooning" position. Be sure to use an equal quantity of male & female dolls to keep the load balanced. Also, keep one above deck, just in case you "get the urge". That way you don't have to tear up your flooring in an emergency!

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

Styrofoam Peanuts.<br /><br />The dolls need to eat!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

Boy is this thread getting constructive, or what?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

I really like the Hi-density poly balls... But they're a Whole Bunch More Expensive than my Soda Bottles.... <br />The Ping-Pong Balls would no doubt Work... I think the Soda Bottles will be more Durable....<br />Now, as to the downsides mentioned here.....<br />Temperature... How much does your Soda Bottle Shrink, or Grow, between the Ice Chest,+ sitting in the Sun on your deck ?????? <br />Very Little......<br />Now, What Temperatures do You go boating in ?????<br />The Extremes will be a whole lot less than on your soft drink......<br />Durability... Come On Guys..... These things will be in "Pristine" condition in 100 Years..... That's the Good, or Bad thing about Plastic Soda Bottles...... They're Not Biodegradable..... If 1 bottle leaks, you'll have an Extra 12ozs of water on board... your Foam will Suck-Up Gallons...... <br /><br />My thoughts on the added hull strenght is, <br />If I've got to support my hull with Foam..... I've got the Wrong Hull......<br />A Layer of Glass + Resin will turn a 1/2" sheet of CDX into a 5/8s" Rigid reasonably Waterproof Cockpit Sole......

 

[catfish1]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

i agree with bondo in that soda bottles would be better than ping pong balls. if you siliconed the lids on they'd be ok, and they'd be a whole lot more durable than ping pong balls, let alone the cost! like the link describes, the balls will stress crack when exposed to the cold.

 

[ED21]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

What sort of cost do you estimate for a good foam.<br />What is your boat worth & how long do you plan to keep it. The expression penney wise & pound foolish comes to mind or maybe do it right the first time. Don't under estimate the sound deadening quality of foam. <br />Also how will the ping pong balls or plastic bottles sound rattling around below deck or how will they resonate as the boat is pounding along. It would be a shame to do all the work then have the the result unacceptable.

 

[jfc092]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

ManOverboard, Thanks for the laugh. I got a good chuckle out of your doll theory.

 

[ndemge]

Re: Under floor floatation? Ping Pong Balls?

Catfish1... your question about how the plastic holds up to cold....<br /><br />No experience in ping pong balls, but do have experience in fireworks.<br /><br />PVC - BIG NO NO... it gets cold, it breaks, shrapnal EVERYWHERE...<br /><br />HDPE (High Density Polyethelene) This is what all fireworks mortars are made of now. You can fire out of them in freezing cold temperatures, and they can still withstand the blast of a missfired shell. HDPE when exploded, IE a Salute shell that explodes in the tube, it will destroy the tube, but no fragmentation, it STRETCHES the walls. It is VERY durable, and when it's cold, it's STRONG... The NFPA rules are not to reload more than 7 shells in a row to be shot out of HDPE, because when it heats up, it isn't as strong, BTW.. Firing 7 shells in a row out of one tube will get it VERY hot.<br /><br />The ball thing does looking like it might be a usefull idea... .. But the question asked of them, what is the volume filled by the balls? (how much air ((aka water)) space is still left)<br /><br />...another question to ponder.... 1,000 plastic balls rubbing together, <br /><br />#1, do they make noise? A boat does flex, not much, but it will.<br /><br />#2 Anti Static? 1,000 balls rubbing together... could this by chance be a safety issue?<br /><br />I don't know if HDPE is anti-static or not.