UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Haut Medoc

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

used as pawns
Pawns for what?
When you acknowledge them as pawns, you have all ready conceded something......
Whatever happened to not negotiating with terrorists?.....:/
 

cmyers_uk

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Dont be naive your government negotiate with 'terrorists' or shall we call them insurgents in iraq at all levels. Try not to confuse retorick with reality.

"American diplomats and army commanders have held indirect talks with insurgents in Iraq, the first officially sanctioned contact between the two sides in two years of violence.
A US embassy official in Baghdad said efforts were under way to "engage" elements of the resistance in an apparent softening of the Bush administration's opposition to negotiations.
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

jimlad said:
this has happened before in 2004 and we got our soldiers back without a single shot fired and we will get our sailors without a shot fired which in my opinion is how it should be


Lisa

[colour=blue]Hi Lisa, The Brits were friendly with Iran in 2004, the nuclear ambitions of the Persians have changed that in the intervining time to 2007, (I'm afraid). The world and more narrowly: the Western Powers who have given us a fairly orderly and relatively free n' prosperous modern world today to inclued the Brits, Ausie's/NZ, Canada, n' the USA are or will rapidly be at a crossroads in history. 9/11 was a wake up call to the serious nature of the Persians' first very sucessfull strike, (hostages) in 1979, (TG: I think that Iran had a bigger role then even Sadat, [which was a significant man]), as Iran has historically been the most powerfull Middle East country/empire. The switch of Iran from stanch US ally to enemy was a far bigger shift the Mr. Sadat's death, IMHO. That said: those of us aware of history see the unmistakable drift toward a real significant conflict. Do we follow the examples of Neville Chamberlain or Wintson Churchill? Most Americans can't name their vice President, and are very unaware of History. Accident? Maybe, maybe not. The modern Democrats would not have a chance to win the town dog catcher if Americans were aware of their own history and engaged in critical thinkin'. Democrats were the party of Slavery and Anti civil Rights circa 1964 yet Blacks vote Democrat 90-10 or 80-20. Does that make any sense? Blacks now favor school vouchers by wide margins, but Democrats force the public monopoly that turns out graduates who do not know who the name of the Vice President of the US is, to assure their grip on power. Don't know the situation in Britian or Europe, but the near term situation here is not good. That said, your wish for a peacefull return of your soldiers is a warm n' fuzzy hope, (I like to think warm thoughts too, n' I hope you are right). That said: it is very unlikely or unrealistic your soldiers will come home without a big price one way or the other. Here is some indication:[/colour]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece

Regards, and Respect. JR
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

I was not singling out Britain with my remark....
The US is very GUILTY of it......
Just like WWII, negotiating now is only delaying the inevitable......
England is in much worse shape when it comes.....
I'd wager that there are alot more people from that section of the world in the UK, than in the US, per capita.....
Dont confuse common sense as a weakness.
Appeasement is a weakness......
That 'C' doesn't stand for Chamberlain do it?......
 

jimlad

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Hi OldMercsRule
its nice that other people have warm thoughts too
its just ashame that people think that the answer to everything is nuke em do we really want to have another war with another country when there is enough of it already.


your link didnt work


Lisa
 

jimlad

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

OldMercsRule said:
jimlad said:
this has happened before in 2004 and we got our soldiers back without a single shot fired and we will get our sailors without a shot fired which in my opinion is how it should be


Lisa

[colour=blue]Hi Lisa, The Brits were friendly with Iran in 2004, the nuclear ambitions of the Persians have changed that in the intervining time to 2007, (I'm afraid). The world and more narrowly: the Western Powers who have given us a fairly orderly and relatively free n' prosperous modern world today to inclued the Brits, Ausie's/NZ, Canada, n' the USA are or will rapidly be at a crossroads in history. 9/11 was a wake up call to the serious nature of the Persians' first very sucessfull strike, (hostages) in 1979, (TG: I think that Iran had a bigger role then even Sadat, [which was a significant man]), as Iran has historically been the most powerfull Middle East country/empire. The switch of Iran from stanch US ally to enemy was a far bigger shift the Mr. Sadat's death, IMHO. That said: those of us aware of history see the unmistakable drift toward a real significant conflict. Do we follow the examples of Neville Chamberlain or Wintson Churchill? Most Americans can't name their vice President, and are very unaware of History. Accident? Maybe, maybe not. The modern Democrats would not have a chance to win the town dog catcher if Americans were aware of their own history and engaged in critical thinkin'. Democrats were the party of Slavery and Anti civil Rights circa 1964 yet Blacks vote Democrat 90-10 or 80-20. Does that make any sense? Blacks now favor school vouchers by wide margins, but Democrats force the public monopoly that turns out graduates who do not know who the name of the Vice President of the US is, to assure their grip on power. Don't know the situation in Britian or Europe, but the near term situation here is not good. That said, your wish for a peacefull return of your soldiers is a warm n' fuzzy hope, (I like to think warm thoughts too, n' I hope you are right). That said: it is very unlikely or unrealistic your soldiers will come home without a big price one way or the other. Here is some indication:[/colour]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece

Regards, and Respect. JR

Hi again the link worked ,so they are bascially going to use them as blackmail against the US

Lisa
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

cmyers_uk said:
Dont be naive your government negotiate with 'terrorists' or shall we call them insurgents in iraq at all levels. Try not to confuse retorick with reality.

"American diplomats and army commanders have held indirect talks with insurgents in Iraq, the first officially sanctioned contact between the two sides in two years of violence.
A US embassy official in Baghdad said efforts were under way to "engage" elements of the resistance in an apparent softening of the Bush administration's opposition to negotiations.

It all started here: www.answers.com/topic/anwar-al-sadat

From there, "we" that is both the US and the world have suffered ever increasing and more emoboldening attack's since that date.

Embassy's
WarShip's
911
Spain
Israel


Had any foreign country on earth demonstrated this type
of behaivor the game would be over.

I am afraid what is going to happen is a nuclear strike, at that point you will see what complacency bring's, death to perhap's million's.

If one think's this is going to a war for our children to fight, you have bought'n into some of the crazy hype that our press is trying to instill in us. There is to much going on, to much has been said and done. Radical Islam is being cornered as we speak and post and like a trapped animal they will come out swinging hard, it is there nature and history show' as much.


Think not this all started in a mideast country 27 year's ago............in the past 5 year's they have attacked America, Spain, and Israel soil. It will end sooner than you think.
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

[colour=blue]Hard to know Lisa. I have respect for my enemy, (but I can't read their minds). The incident was no accident. A fisherman saw the deal go down and claims the Brits were in Iraq waters. (Reported out of Quatar by Reuters) Persians are real tough and have been for 3000-4000 years. They usually have something in mind when they challange us. As RubberFrog stated: WE ARE ALL VERY WEAK, (in the West). I believe my gaseous buddy was talking about the Left's stranglehold on the MSM here and there in Britian and the Left's influance over the World's Politics. IMHO we will test Chamberlain's philosophy before we have to use Sir Winston's. Unless George Bush has more hair then it appears, (which he may). If Bush does something impeachment will follow. What did you folks do to the GREATEST MAN who walked the Planet in the last 100 years: Mrs Jimlad? Respectfully, JR[/colour]
 

cmyers_uk

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Haut,

What would you have done?

Should the 15 guys on the ribs with light machine guns take on heavy weapons aboard patrol boats and died with honour. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

Should the captain of the destroyer sunk the said boats along with the 15 guys?

Should we nuke the country with the associate loss of life , irradiating 125K american troups in the neighbouring country, possibly triggering WWIII?

What should we do so as not appear to be appeasing the enemy?

P.S The 'C' stands for Commonsensicle
 

cmyers_uk

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Tail Gunner

Had any foreign country on earth demonstrated this type of behaivor the game would be over

That is the point we are not fighting a country. The terrorists come from any country including America, UK , Middle East , Africa etc. They are joined by a warped version of a religion. We can attack countries but the attacks wont stop. Look at the billions spent the 3K+ american lives lost and still homeland security is stopping attacks on home soil every day. By labeling everyone in iran as evil and in need on nuking because the government capture 15 soliders seem to stike of the Hitler mentality against the jews.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

cmyers_uk said:
Tail Gunner

Had any foreign country on earth demonstrated this type of behaivor the game would be over

That is the point we are not fighting a country. The terrorists come from any country including America, UK , Middle East , Africa etc. They are joined by a warped version of a religion. We can attack countries but the attacks wont stop. Look at the billions spent the 3K+ american lives lost and still homeland security is stopping attacks on home soil every day. By labeling everyone in iran as evil and in need on nuking because the government capture 15 soliders seem to stike of the Hitler mentality against the jews.

I have posted more than enough of my opinion's and they are just that opinion's, and hopefully far from being even remotely correct,

But as i stated previously the extremesit's are being cornered, note the heading "Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says."

Iran is a country
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

cmyers_uk said:
Tail Gunner

Had any foreign country on earth demonstrated this type of behaivor the game would be over

That is the point we are not fighting a country. The terrorists come from any country including America, UK , Middle East , Africa etc. They are joined by a warped version of a religion. We can attack countries but the attacks wont stop. Look at the billions spent the 3K+ american lives lost and still homeland security is stopping attacks on home soil every day. By labeling everyone in iran as evil and in need on nuking because the government capture 15 soliders seem to stike of the Hitler mentality against the jews.

[colour=blue]Hey Cmyers, I'm not for using the Nukes yet, but I'm not for Chamberlians' strategy as followed by President Jimmy Carter in 1979 either. I suggest we all need to first: examine history of both Islam and Persia. The Mongols, (the ones who were 'more gentle' then the Americans were in Vietnam if you have absolutely no understanding of history and think John Kerry actually tells the truth: n' loves America n' all), brought Islam to Persia after conquering the empire in the middle ages. BTW Persia has never been easy to conquer or hold for any power for over 3000 years. Look at what they did to Sadam's far superior military in the 1980s, (hope that makes ya think a li'l). Islam is the "Religion o' Peace": right? Anyway, I think you do have a choice that might work for five minutes to maybe a couple of years: CONVERT TO ISLAM N' PRAY TO MECCA FIVE TIMES A DAY. The reason I'm not so sure it will work long term is I both have read and do think my single overstressed brain cell does understand Islam. I don't think it is "the Religion of Peace" as portrayed by many. I think it is the most agressive and militaristic major religion on the planet we live on. Based on HISTORY. Muslims kill more Muslins then anyone else because they may not be Muslim enough. So after ya convert Britian to Islam expect children to grow up to bomb ya if they don't agree with ya. The other choice which is very unpopular with Libs n' fuzzies around the world is: stand up to 'em and give 'em 5 days to hand over the men or evacuate Tehran. Some MOABs, (large n' nasty fuel air explosives), maybe 5 or 10 could eliminate Tehran for starters. Then step up the heat and let 'em know we are actually serious and name the 5 next cities to have 5 days to leave. Hopefully ya get the picture. At some point the USA or Europe WILL GET A BIG HIT ENOUGH TO GET OUR ATTENTION. I hope we don't have to create lots o' glass in the Middle East, but there are over 1 Billion members of the Religion o' Peace. Schollars think that about 25%, (that's a big number BTW), want all non believers either converted or dead; method: not important but beheading is their favorite way. The Libs tying our hands make the nasty stuff more likely IM not so humble O! Respectfully, JR[/colour]

A little further readin' for your pleasure:

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/...objectid=18805338&siteid=62484-name_page.html
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Haut,

What would you have done?

Should the 15 guys on the ribs with light machine guns take on heavy weapons aboard patrol boats and died with honour. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

Should the captain of the destroyer sunk the said boats along with the 15 guys?


They did the right thing, a state of war does not exist....
I am not calling them cowards.....


Should we nuke the country with the associate loss of life , irradiating 125K american troups in the neighbouring country, possibly triggering WWIII?

Maybe......
Tehran is far enough away that it won't affect US troops....

What should we do so as not appear to be appeasing the enemy?

See what they want, (if anything), then act accordingly....;)
 

JB

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Point to Froggy.

Peace, amigo.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

cmyers_uk said:
Tail Gunner

Had any foreign country on earth demonstrated this type of behaivor the game would be over

That is the point we are not fighting a country. The terrorists come from any country including America, UK , Middle East , Africa etc. They are joined by a warped version of a religion. We can attack countries but the attacks wont stop. Look at the billions spent the 3K+ american lives lost and still homeland security is stopping attacks on home soil every day. By labeling everyone in iran as evil and in need on nuking because the government capture 15 soliders seem to stike of the Hitler mentality against the jews.

You see that phrase: By labeling everyone in iran as evil and in need on nuking because the government capture 15 soliders seem to stike of the Hitler mentality against the jews.

MY grandfather came from Germany, as a 10 yr old boy full of innocence and life, i once asked John why my father and his family could not speak the german langauge at any family gathering's. What happened was a experience i will never forget. Tears came to his eye's, and a vauge look, almost lifeless.

He explained to me what the brown bagger's (known as brown shirt's today) were, i was told of storie's of men and women taken into a feild, shot and buried simply because of there spoken langauge, looks or heritage.

At the time it made no sense to me at all, but when he was telling me the stories, and the sense of loss i felt or emptiness it never left me.

Today @ the age of 50 something and reading history, i am begining to understand the true horror of what humanity can bring.

Before you use the word's Hitler, i would plz ask you to read, and understand the true nature of that beast,

To this day, I still cannot understand how the World let 6 million people be Slaughtered, And yet you bring up his name, in a fight against terrisom,

I am left speehless.

EDIT: i truly loved my grandfather, after 45 year's i can say this, perhap's it is time to make a attempt to purge this scourge from humanity,or is this our destinty to keep this awful pain alive.............:'(

The saddness come's from not only my grandfather's pain, but also from humanity's inability to reconize true evil and deal with it harshly, I for one do not wish this insanity on my children's life and your's
 

cmyers_uk

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Tail Gunner.

I apologise if the word Hitler offended you, however the quotes below are from this thread, this thead is very tame in comparision to other threads where American nationals are involved. These people articulate that they want all iranians dead, everyone man, women and child. In my view its called GENOCIDE it has no proportion to whats happend / happening and is no different in conception to WWII. N.B 6 Members of my family fought the Germans and three died doing it were well aware of our history maybe thats why in your compatriots eyes we are 'Liberal' and dont want to kill with the slightest provocation.

Kind Regards

Chris.
P.S I really dont want to offend you, sorry, but this kill , kill , kill stuff gets me mad!

They should bomb Iran back to the stone age....& we should help.......

I say nuke em now. In the end it'll save a lot of hot air and possibly improve the environment

I still say those who oppose us should glow green and their great grandchildren should be born with 13 fingers because we put so much radiation in their area.

Alrighty then, don't punish there future generations. Totally wipe them out
 

RubberFrog

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Ahhh, one of those gentle liberal types... I would like to quote my buddy crunch here-
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

" If Maggie Thatcher were in charge: look out! She is not, and Britian is hampered by Liberals (as are we). "

Tony Blair leads the Labour party, they are the party of the "left" in British politics.
If the Labour party can declare war and send troops into battle as they have done in the case of Iraq, what gives you the idea that Britain is hampered by "liberals" when it comes to defending itself ?
 

cmyers_uk

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

RubberFrog,

Thanks for that statement glad weve got you somebody strong and right wing on ourside.

Right they have 15 of our soliders how many Iranians should we kill?

Obviously being liberal I want to talk my way out but you have shown me the error of my ways. Should I start with Tehran, the population is approx 12 million, a few nukes should take care of them. Would that reduce the chance of my wife getting raped or my children murdered?

I am so glad you and crunch came up with that saying whilst chatting in the trailer or I would have been in trouble!. Cheers
 

jimlad

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Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

it seems the obvious is being missed here in that 15 sailors are in Iran somewhere no one apparently knows where and people want to nuke the country
with the sailors still in it.



Lisa
 
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