Trim / Tilt

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
Hey friends.
I mostly have experience with smaller outboards that swing up if you hit an obstruction while in fwd gear and "latch" to prevent tilting up when in reverse.
On larger motors with electric T&T, is the motor hydraulically locked when in fwd where it can't tip up if hit ? then somehow latch for reverse ?
And the old Tilt assist, the lever is to lock the fluid for backing up and free flow for fwd to allow tipping up for obstruction collisions ?
Just wanting to get a better grip on intended functions,
Thanks
 

alldodge

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
37,332
The hydraulic trim has check valves inside which upon impact will open some and allow drive to lift. That said if the impact is hard enough its just going to break something.
 

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
Hey thanks ! That is sort of what I was guessing. Been reading info regarding the degree of protection and it appears to be minimal. Especially at speed.
Thanks again,
W
 

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
From what I have gathered, the "assist" models from Johnson did not last very well but I have not found a report regarding how well they actually worked as new ..... when they first came out. Merc units look very similar and I assume they operated the same way. Were they shunned due to being non serviceable ? or ?
I'm wondering how satisfied users were with a brand new unit, say, a 1989 40 VRO. At a glance, it looks like a good idea and would work very well with the proper precharge.
Any input appreciated.
Thanks
 

Baylinerchuck

Commander
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
2,693
My first boat had a 78 Johnson 85hp with manual tilt. There was a shock of some sort mounted to it where the tilt cylinder would be on a trim tilt unit. Honestly for the size of that V4 it lifted quite nicely. I attribute that to how balanced it was between the power head and leg, not that assist shock. I could lean over the splash well and trip the tilt lever, and with very little effort pull the motor back until it was locked on the stand. Obviously it won’t raise itself, so some effort was involved, but not too bad considering the weight of that hog. I eventually bought a used 90hp with trim/tilt. Honestly there is no comparison, and I’ll never own another boat with a manual tilt…….EVER.
 

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
Thanks BC, much appreciated.
That IS what I wanted to hear !
They actually were quite effective.
I'm sort of in a financial pickle.
Used TT units $$$$ if available, and work.
CMC $$$$$$
Used + rebuild , More $$$$
I'd be happy if I could get something to work manually for now.
I have a 60 w/TT but is unnecessarily large for this little 16' alu boat.
The 40 will suit me well ..... If I can get something to assist the tilting.
Thanks again !
Cheers
 

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
One more question:
I read where the typical hyd TT units have a relief valve built in to allow somewhat of a tilt UP in the event of a UWO collision.
Looking at the CMC manual, I see this (pic) but no mention of how it is regulated or accomplished. I can imagine an internal pressure sensitive shuttle, or priority type valve to isolate the tilting until the fwd pressure drops to a level that would indicate a slowed, or stopped condition. (wondering)
Anyone familiar with this ? I'm just guessing. And, there is no mention of the ability for the unit to tip up if hit at speed. Any ideas on that ?
Thanks again,
W
 

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Baylinerchuck

Commander
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With what I experienced with the 85, I don’t think you’ll have any trouble with the 40. The motors are very well balanced. I just hated having to move the latch pin around for best conditions. Power trim is so much better. As I was looking for power trim options for mine I found that a lot of the same era Johnsons used the same trim assemblies over numerous hp sizes. If I was looking for one, I’d be looking for salvage motors in boat yards. Unfortunately not many are in my area. I eventually found my motor on a junk boat that I got for very cheap. The motor was a 90 hp VRO and with a little work ran good. It’s still on that old Bayliner I sold and runs like a champ. Hard to kill those old 2 strokes.
 

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
With what I experienced with the 85, I don’t think you’ll have any trouble with the 40. The motors are very well balanced.
Case I didn't mention it, this 40 was on a CMC unit and is missing the original assist assembly. Not sure if you were aware of that,
Thanks
 

Baylinerchuck

Commander
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
2,693
One more question:
I read where the typical hyd TT units have a relief valve built in to allow somewhat of a tilt UP in the event of a UWO collision.
Looking at the CMC manual, I see this (pic) but no mention of how it is regulated or accomplished. I can imagine an internal pressure sensitive shuttle, or priority type valve to isolate the tilting until the fwd pressure drops to a level that would indicate a slowed, or stopped condition. (wondering)
Anyone familiar with this ? I'm just guessing. And, there is no mention of the ability for the unit to tip up if hit at speed. Any ideas on that ?
Thanks again,
W
On the Johnson I had trim was accomplished through two very small cylinders that extend or retract under any condition. When those small cylinders were maxed, the pump had enough pressure to fill the larger tilt cylinder. The pressure was not enough to push up the piston in the tilt cylinder when under way. It’s a pretty simple setup.
 

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
On the Johnson I had trim was accomplished through two very small cylinders that extend or retract under any condition. When those small cylinders were maxed, the pump had enough pressure to fill the larger tilt cylinder. The pressure was not enough to push up the piston in the tilt cylinder when under way. It’s a pretty simple setup.
That is exactly the way the stock tt is on my J60. But the CMC has only 1 cylinder with 1 ram. Something has to sense when it is slow or stopped and when under way.
Could be a small internal bleed port at the 20 degree mark ? dunno ?
Thanks again.
 

Wildey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
186
A local has this, thinks it is mid 70's model.
Do any of you know if the T&T/pivot bracket assy will work on my 1989 J40 ?
I might be able to get this at a reasonable price.
Thanks
 

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Baylinerchuck

Commander
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I would post your question in the Johnson Outboard section of the forum for more traffic.
 
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