Transom, Stringers...........help!

[Hoggar]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Hi Bobber.

That looks like a great project. Here is a link to my First project boat
1961 Elgin project I will be glad to help out with any info I can give the most
important thing to do is be patient and do your home work before you
start tearing any more of it apart. These boats are easy to fix it just takes
time and clear thinking.

what ever you do DON'T use wood glue to put together your boat.
Most of these older boats were built with polyester resin I recommend
Vinylester It sits between Epoxy and polyester resin in its strength
and water resistance as well as price range. The issues with Epoxy
are once you patch or repair with Epoxy your stuck with that medium
you can not go back to the Ester resins and you risk delamination.

PS... now that you have the deck off you need to cut some 2 X 4
braces at least 3 of them and strap them across the inside of the
boat from side to side at the top of your Hull so your Hull doesn't
spread I wasn't warned about this issue and when I was done the
top of my boat at the stern was 1" wider luckily I didn't have the
whole cap off.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

what ever you do DON'T use wood glue to put together your boat.

The recommendation to use wood glue was ONLY in regards to laminating his transom boards together. It was not improper advice.

 

[zach103]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

He means use the wood glue to put inbetween the two sheets of plywood.. they just had a whole thread about this this week... i wouldnt use the glue to put the transom against the hull thats when you need to glass it.. but two put the two pieces of wood together use the glue

 

[strtbobber]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Well cyber.....I see your point, and the only attachment I have to this boat is the fact that I paid $100 for boat, trailer and motor. So, since that was what fit into my budget right now, I figured I could make it into a pretty kick ***** boat and still spend less money than buying one that's already seaworthy. Hope I'm right.

Secondly, winter in Winnipeg tends to be C C C COLD...........so it'll be a fun project....in the heated garage.

Thanks for the input, though.

P.S. I'm sure you're not the only one who will tell me that I'm crazy...lol

 

[strtbobber]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Thanks for all the info, guys. All that is so helpful and greatly appreciated!!

 

[sasto]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

.

P.S. I'm sure you're not the only one who will tell me that I'm crazy...lol

You may be crazy for all I know........Like Waylon said " crazy to keep me from going insane".....I would think putting your boat together this winter will add just enough of crazyness to keep you sane..... Keep up the work and keep us posted.

 

[zach103]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Well cyber.....I see your point, and the only attachment I have to this boat is the fact that I paid $100 for boat, trailer and motor. So, since that was what fit into my budget right now, I figured I could make it into a pretty kick ***** boat and still spend less money than buying one that's already seaworthy. Hope I'm right.

Secondly, winter in Winnipeg tends to be C C C COLD...........so it'll be a fun project....in the heated garage.

Thanks for the input, though.

P.S. I'm sure you're not the only one who will tell me that I'm crazy...lol

your deff not crazy.. OOPS is crazy lol.. but everyone who does this is crazy.. a good crazy tho ..

as far as the stringers they do look moist so like ezombee said redo it to be safe..

 

[Hoggar]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

He means use the wood glue to put inbetween the two sheets of plywood.. they just had a whole thread about this this week... i wouldnt use the glue to put the transom against the hull thats when you need to glass it.. but two put the two pieces of wood together use the glue

I wouldn't use Wood glue in any part of the boat Zach. When I did my transom I
used 2oz random mat between 1/8th in Baltic birch. No voids and solid as a
rock then I cut 2' holes in to the new transom filled them with glass and resin
where the through hulls would go and glassed it in place.

Some thing else to think about Bobber is raising your transom to take 20"
Outboards I didn't do this and regretted it later. The lion's share of outboards
available today are 20" or longer.

 

[zach103]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Why wouldn't you?? I'm not trying to fight i just like to know why you wouldnt use it

 

[strtbobber]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Crazy?!............depends if you're talking to my ex-wife or my current wife.

And yeah, I have decided to replace the stringers. It only makes sense to me since the deck is off anyway. BUT, what kind of wood to use for the stringers? Does it HAVE to be hardwood? I've seen some guys use plywood........hmmmm

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

I wouldn't use Wood glue in any part of the boat

What's the difference between the wood glue that would be holding these two sheets of plywood together and the glue holding all the individual plys together?

 

[sasto]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

What's the difference between the wood glue that would be holding these two sheets of plywood together and the glue holding all the individual plys together?

Good question.....I would bet if you glued 2 sheets of plywood together with quality glue....tried pulling them apart....the ply would separate before the glued surfaces.

 

[zach103]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

What you could use is buy a 1 or 2 sticks of elmers glue sticks that will probably work the best..

i used plywood on my last boat for stringers.. that one i had to do a template and trace.. for yours because they don't look horribly rotten you can probably cut the glass so that you can remove the wood gently and intact than put that on the sheet of plywood and trace.

 

[Hoggar]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

What's the difference between the wood glue that would be holding these two sheets of plywood together and the glue holding all the individual plys together?

Not fighting and glad to answer questions to the best of my knowledge.

If you get water intrusion the wood glue is only water resistant not waterproof
and will delaminate. Polyurethane glues like Gorilla glue will hold up better I have
a Flat bottom skiff that I built several years ago that has delaminated in several
places but the section where I used Gorilla glue is still solid. This Skiff was the
first boat I built I had no help except the Internet and managed to find allot of
bad advice. The hull always seeped water even though I followed the instructions
I found to the letter. I set it aside until I could glass the outside of the hull but
never got to it and when I did get a chance to mess with it, it was to far gone.

My second project took place after the lessons of the first boat and I used the
proper materials for the job. Remember while your fixing up your new to you
project boat that some day your family and/or friends will be in it with you
do it right, someones life may depend on it.

My current project needs New Stringers the originals were plywood laminated
up to around 2" thick, the stamp on one piece said it was Douglass fir. I'm
looking in to using Corecell to replace them but I will do my research before
I forgo the original materials first. There is a reason My boats lasted over 40
years and were still serviceable. Had the previous owners taken better care
of them they wouldn't need the work I have had to do to them. Both had
water intrusion issues one from not being properly stored and/or covered
the other had unsealed screws through the hull into the flotation below the
sole and water line.

 

[zach103]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

ya but if he uses the wood glue than glasses them in against the hull like hes suppose to than how could water intrude and get to the wood glue?

 

[sasto]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Not fighting and glad to answer questions to the best of my knowledge.

If you get water intrusion the wood glue is only water resistant not waterproof
and will delaminate.
.

. Remember while your fixing up your new to you
project boat that some day your family and/or friends will be in it with you
do it right, someones life may depend on it.

My current project needs New Stringers the originals were plywood laminated
up to around 2" thick, the stamp on one piece said it was Douglass fir. I'm
looking in to using Corecell to replace them but I will do my research before
I forgo the original materials first. There is a reason My boats lasted over 40
years and were still serviceable. Had the previous owners taken better care
of them they wouldn't need the work I have had to do to them. Both had
water intrusion issues one from not being properly stored and/or covered
the other had unsealed screws through the hull into the flotation below the
sole and water line.

Not all wood glue/cement is water based.......but I like your thinking....

 

[Hoggar]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

ya but if he uses the wood glue than glasses them in against the hull like hes suppose to than how could water intrude and get to the wood glue?

Any through hull fitting is an opportunity for water to get at the wood even
if you fill the screw hole with 3M 52 or 4200 there is always a chance that
water can get in there.

This went straight in to the foam flotation in my new to me 1967 Surfer
there was Caulk on the inside of the screws when I pulled the foam away.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Not fighting and glad to answer questions to the best of my knowledge.

Not fighting at all. No worries. Just a discussion at this point (especially since I think the OP has gotten his answers). I think any of these materials discussions are very beneficial. We're always looking for new or better ways to do things. Just recently I saw a member on here make his stringers with a composite honeycomb (I think) material and I'd love to learn more about that.

Additional full disclosure.....I've personally done 2 transoms. The first one I just painted so I laminated it with PL Premium. The second one I sealed with epoxy resin so I just used that for my laminating.

So anyway, back to our "wood glue" topic.....there's some interesting information about that Titebond III here http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp Funny how it says "Ultimate in Waterproof" and then describes water "resistance" However, when you read what the test is for that ANSI/HPVA Type I Specification for water resistance it is pretty tough. So after reading all that, I stand by my ascertain that Titebond III would be a suitable adhesive to use for laminating 2 pieces of plywood together for the purpose of constructing a transom (if for no other reason than if you've got water intrusion, I think the integrity of that adhesive is going to be the least of your problems )

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Since my post started this I guess I would like to add the following, My 40+ years of experience in Working with wood in the construction business and using everykind of glue and adhesive that has come down the pike, and working with every kind of exterior grade wood that has been produced I feel qualified to speak on this subject. Titebond III IS the ultimate in Waterproof exterior glue for plywood. If you care to read the following from their testing...

Questions & Answers
What is Titebond? III Ultimate Wood Glue?
Titebond? III is the first one-part, waterproof wood glue that cleans up with water and offers a one-year shelf life. It is an advanced, proprietary polymer-based formula that offers the preferred performance attributes as defined by professional woodworkers. Titebond? III represents the benefits of multiple gluing technologies and delivers them in a single product, ideal for interior and exterior woodworking applications.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What is the difference between the ANSI/HPVA Type I and Type II
water-resistance specification?[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Both of these tests are conducted using 6? by 6? birch laminates glued together to make three-ply plywood. The test for Type I is clearly more stringent than Type II, and involves boiling the glue bonds and testing the specimens while they are wet.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Type I testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 1" by 3" specimens, boiling them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 145?F oven for 20 hours. They are boiled for an additional 4 hours, then immediately cooled using running water. The specimens are sheared while wet, and the bonds must pass certain strength and wood failure requirements to pass the Type I specification.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Type II testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 2" by 5" specimens, soaking them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 120?F oven for 19 hours. This is repeated for a total of three cycles, and the bonds must not delaminate to pass the Type II specification.
[/FONT]
How does Titebond? III compare to polyurethane glues?
While polyurethane glues bond well to a variety of materials, Titebond? III is superior in many ways. In addition to excellent water-resistance, it provides a stronger bond on wood-to-wood applications, doesn't foam and requires less clamp time. Titebond? III has no health issues, doesn't require the use of gloves and cleans up with water. It is significantly less expensive than polyurethane glues and offers similar coverage rates


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I KNOW how this glue performs from experience and I KNOW that once any wood is glued with this product the wood itself will fail before the bonded area will fail, water or no water. It is MY belief that once you encase your transom in several coats of resin and mat, Heck, you could probably glue em together with School glue and they would STILL last longer than you owned the boat as long as you properly maintained em. It's the lack of Proper maintenance that KILLS transoms and stringers. If we make sure that the water does NOT get in then it really does not matter what materials we use as long as it has structural integrity.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm just sayin...
[/FONT]

 

[strtbobber]

Re: Transom, Stringers...........help!

Glad to see so much discussion going on. I learn a lot just by reading and I appreciate all the input.

All this discussion about making sure we keep water out of our boats leads me to another question. The deck in my boat had a 2" hole near the bow with what looks like a bath tub plug. Anybody know the importance of this or whether it in fact IS important? Do I need to make that hole when I replace the deck? (see pic)

Another question: At the stearn, there are the obvious drain holes...splash tray, deck.......but below the deck drain, there is a much smaller drain hole (to drain the hull I'm assuming) , the previous owner had this hole siliconed shut. My question is, does this drain hole need to be there in my new transom? I'm not sure because, if I ensure that my deck is water tight, do I need to make a hole at the front and in the transom?

As far as the glue topic goes, I believe it was said that I can buy the Titebond III at Home Depot. I might head over there today to see if they sell it here in Canada.

Thanks guys!