Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

foodfisher

Captain
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
3,756
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Broken piston ring/s =no compression and pieces of it/them bouncing around inside the cylinder did the damage. Running it that way? I wouldn't.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
49,230
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

rebuild or new power head time.
 

tater76

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
712
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Yikes!!!! I didn't even make it all the way through the vid... couldnt bear to watch ;) Sorry swick, its time to pull the powerhead. Your bottom cylinder was run lean or broke a ring or both. You should NOT run it anymore unless you are hell bent on buying a new block. The bottom cylinder may be able to be oversized, and the rest honed then new rings. However, you won't know if its saveable unless you pull the block apart.
 

riptorn

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
433
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

I agree with above. Looks like cylinder 1 and 4 carbs were adjusted too lean and no. 4 is ready to let go.
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Thanks for the input guys. Ok so let me just emphasize that I've never taken an outboard completely apart before, I'm sure I can handle it just fine, but wonder whats invovled? For instance will I need specialty tools? I'd hate to take it apart any further only to find that I can't continue the job. My thoughts, and I could be wrong, I think if foodfisher above is right, what are the chances that I just replace the piston on #4 and everything running ok? I see that iboats sells the pistons for this engine for $115 and the head gasket is about $30, thats not too bad considering its a 13 year old engine from a company thats out of business now. What internal damage could I or should I expect to see in this when I tear it down further? I mean it functions as you see, it seems like its just that lower piston. And if I were to bore out the cylinder, how do I do that, pay a machine shop or something? Thanks.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
49,230
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

before you buy anything, you need to tear it down and inspect everything. you will need rings in addition to pistons. you will also need to hone the cylinder, and if your going that far, you should do all 4 and do it right.

not sure how this power head is assembled, however there will be more than just the head gasket.

there are various parts on ebay, however once you add up the parts you need, you may find it cheaper to replace the motor. like you stated, its a 13 year old obsolete motor.
 

foodfisher

Captain
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
3,756
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Don't know why the mistroe hasn't chimed in but I would try a PM to Frank A. on this one. Jerryjerry is another knowlegable motorhead.
 

tater76

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
712
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Its relatively easy... Put shifter into forward, remove shift and throttle linkage at motor, remove gas line to pump, remove connections at starter solenoid, unplug main wiring harness and any other connections that need to go, remove lower cowl cover, there are eight nuts (if I remember right) loosen them, put a lift ring on the crank, and lift it off.

Set up a table, long picnic sort. Then set the motor on one end while removing the ignition system, carbs, and other small misc. parts. Lay everything out so as to keep track. Then start removing the bolts that hold the block halves together. You will need to remove the reed plates to get at the allen head bolts (4 I think 2 in each opening) these hold the center of the case halves together. Once all the bolts are out, you can pry on the block in the designated pry spots (opposite corners on the block, top and bottom). You may need to smack the crank upwards with a rubber mallet to break the seal, as sometimes they are really stubborn and prying just wont do it.

Once the halves are seperated you will need a 12pt 1/4 inch socket to remove the rod cap bolts. Remove the bolts, remove the caps, but keep the orientation of the rod caps with the corresponding rod. Remove the bearing cage half, needle bearings, repeat on all four. Then lift crank out, you are now free to push the pistons out of the block, and inspect the damage.

If you are lucky, and only have damage to one cylinder, a rebore will cost $50-$75, new piston and pin kit $115-$135, new block seal kit $40-$60, new rings for all four $22-$25 per set?

Specialty tools, 1/4" 12pt socket, torque wrench, timing light, hone.

If you have any piston skirt damage you need to replace the piston. I have a feeling you will have way more damage than just the bottom piston, but you never know :) Remember to inspect the crank surfaces where the rods ride. If you have damage there things can get iffy.
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Thanks for the motivation Tater, sounds like you've done this before. Have you rebuilt a Force? $75 for a rebore doesn't sound so bad, I wonder where I would take it to get it done?
 

tater76

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
712
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Yup... many ;) Just got done with a 95 120 Force too. Most automotive machine shops will overbore it, but you need to tell them that it is an outboard, and that it is a "blind hole" block. Some shops have the equipment some don't, call before you waste any fuel. The rebuild is not that bad if you are relatively mechanically inclined. I do recommend buying a manual, and researching this site if you are going to do it. If you decide to rebore all four, the total cost of parts will hover in the $6-$1200 range depending on any other damage you may find.
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

This is a 99 120, probably identical to the 95 you had. I guess I need to weigh my options here as far as cost and time trying to rebuild this vs finding a new used motor. I wonder how bad would it be to run it off just 3 cylinders for low speed short distances?
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,018
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

You can run it and completly ruin it.
Right now it might be saveable.Possible you can get away with .010 maybe .020.Keep running and it will get so bad it can't be fixed.
It can be fixed for as low as 250$ for parts.
And the cost of a bore job.
That's could be as little as $40 and up to $75.
Just replacing the one cylinder and using the old rings etc.
If your close enough I might do the work.Where in Fl are you?J
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Jerry I'm down in Boca, probably about 2 hrs south of you. I agree that its worth doing if it can be done for under $500 or so, I just can't fathom spending more than that on this motor. I'd hate to be on th water with the family one day and end up in Cuba by accident. I'd be happy to have the help if I'm not too far from you, I can work something out as far as your gas expense goes if you are willing to drive down, but I understand if its too far.
 

tater76

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
712
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Jerry is right about the one hole cost, but you really don't know until you pull it apart. The 120 I just finished pushed 6 people aboard for more than 6 miles at WOT with 3 sets of broken rings, one piston with 1/4" chunks out of it, and black crusty rod end bearings. Long story short, we saved as much as we could, reused two pistons, bored 2 holes, two new pistons/pin kits, three new/used rods, new bearings, new/used crank, new rings, seals, etc.. total cost around $1000.00

The question in my mind would be is it worth skimping on an ocean going vessell even if it is a "Force"???
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

I'm not suggesting skimping, my thoughts about force engines aren't near as bad as public opinion. What I'm thinking is that rather than spending a grand or more on repairing it, put that money toward another engine all together and see if I can putter arond with this one in the mean time. Believe meif I had the time and money I would have had this rebuilt already.
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

And I'm no expert by far, but I would be surprised to see any of the other pistons damaged, I mean considering how they operate, they aren't loose, they look good, and have good compression. So if it were just rings (even if we do all 4), the number 4 piston, a bore charge, head gasket, and block seal, we are still well under $500, but I see what you are saying, there could be bearing and rods to replace which changes everything. Tater you've got me convinced that I need to start tearing it down and see how lucky or unlucky I am and I guess we will go from there. I appreciate the input.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
49,230
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

you have 30% difference between cylinder 1 and 2. any more than 10% is sign of problems.
 

swick

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
282
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

you have 30% difference between cylinder 1 and 2. any more than 10% is sign of problems.

Right, but I'd attribute that mostly to the bad head gasket as I pointed out in the video, it was bad all around the 1st cylinder. The bottom line is we will never know til I take it apart further, but right now it seems a 50/50 chance whether I repair the engine or get a new one.
 

foodfisher

Captain
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
3,756
Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

The odds will change when you price a new one.
 
Top