To sue or not to sue!

[Franki]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Apart from which, he would not be sueing the mech directly,, rather the company he is representing....<br /><br />I agree with the idea that there is too much litagation going on nowdays, but by the same token, there is too much shoddy work going on also and the only legal action is litigation..<br /><br />Sad state of affairs, but If I had lost that amount of money, from an incrediably simple problem, 3 hours after a mech said it was "all good".. I'd be looking pretty hard what why I paid them the 750 myself..<br /><br />Fact is, people take their outboards to a qualified mech for one of a few possible reasons.<br /><br />1. Piece of mind.. (they know more then I do.)<br />2. Convienence.. (I don't want to do it myself.)<br />3. Safety.. (These guys have the know how and equiptment to fully test and diagnose my motor)<br /><br />Put together, one would expect them to be somewhat accountable for their diagnosis.. <br /><br />It doesn't really even matter if it can be proven that the pinched fuel line was the cause.. <br /><br />The fact that they missed it, after pulling the carbs out.. indicates a lack of "due diligence".<br /><br />I'd at least be expecting my money back from them.<br /><br />regards<br /><br />Franki

 

[JoeW]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Rod Knocking,<br />I don't know where you take your outboard for this kind of work, but around here they charge about $150/hr. If your only paying $10/hr maybe that's why your rod's knocking. <br /><br />I don't think anyone on this post is sue happy. I'm not! But, by God, I WILL protect what is MINE. I'm sure that most of us feel the same.

 

[denniz]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I work on my own outboards and have been doing it for 25 years. I get paid $35.00 a hour not $10. I know how boat shops work, and yes there is some bad work done out there. Theres always 2 sides to every argument. I think theres alot more to this than what you and I are being told.A dry carb (or restricted fuel line) would burn a piston in a matter of minutes NOT A UPPER BEARING which is lubed by the resirc system. Before you start jumping on me you better decide if YOU know what your talkin about. I do agree the dealership should give you a refund of your repair cost (spent at there shop ) {only as a good jesture} but not to pay for someone else to fix your motor.EVEN if you werent happy with there service,you should have checked them out better before leaving your boat with them.At our shop all certifications are posted for all to see, if you want to talk to the tech, your free to do so.

 

[denniz]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Willxuouts second post....find the problem with the top 2 plugs...??? read the post, it was blown when he took it in there.He took it , ran it (new it wasnt right)locked it up............

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Hey Rod, if it was blown, and you can tell from just reading the post, why in the world would they tell him it was fine and to just add more oil? Isn't that negligence on their part?<br /><br />Hey if you are right, he will lose. If you are wrong, he deserves to win. That is why we have courts to settle legitimate disputes.<br /><br />No matter what the outcome, I don't think the judge will tell him it is his own fault for picking the wrong dealership....either once or twice.

 

[OBJ]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I've been following this thread and have read it through a couple times and have made a decision....let the courts decide if it goes that far. Willxuout2 has an attorney. Why don't we wait for the results and save the frayed nerves?

 

[seahorse5]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Willxout,<br /><br />Why not call the factory customer service line with the motor's serial number and ask about its service history? 847 689 7090 Be sure to write down the person's name.<br /><br />Then ask the tech how the upper main bearing is lubricated and if the serial number fell in the recall range, then tell the story about your engine. It may not accomplish anything, but what the heII? At least you will get correct information.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

what bothers me most about this sit. is #1 saying<br />he can't find anything wrong with it? both of you<br />knew something was wrong... it's why you took it<br />in for service in first place right?<br />just run it? how could you take that chance?<br />you were knowlegable enough to know it had a prob<br />but ignorant enough to ignore it and just run it<br />without finding the problem and fixing it???<br />if #1 told you he couldn't find the problem you<br />knew existed, that's when u shoulda gone to #2.<br />never should have run it knowing it wasn't right.<br />this puts at least some of the responsibility on<br />your shoulders IMO. he may be an expert and you a<br />novice, but common sense would be not to run it<br />until the problem was found. you did not exercise<br />very good common sense here. If #1 did tell you<br />it was OK to run it as is, he certainly didn't<br />use very good common sense either, but you are<br />still partly responsible.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

MY, the boat was new to him. He thought it needed to be looked at and was told it was fine, just add more oil. He is NOT an expert so he brought it to an expert and then relied on that expert. So, how is he supposed to know the guy was wrong? An expert tells me something is OK I believe him, especially when I am not really sure there IS a problem. He paid the dealership $500 and all was supposed to be well. Now it is his fault because it wasn't? How many times have you been in a similar position? These threads are filled with people trying to figure out if the really have a problem or not. I just don't get it I guess. He is somehow supposed to know that the engine was going to blow base on the symptoms he described - hard to start and dirty plugs? I guess I have no common sense either because I would have done the same thing.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

while I agree with you in theory Ralph, you still<br />need to excersise common sense. a jude especially<br />will consider this when hearing such a case.<br />common sense is not to run the motor until you<br />find/fix the problem regardless of what #1 said.<br />not saying it's all Will's fault, but he holds<br />some responsibility for the motor frying too.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

But how? It is not like it was knocking and smoking. It was hard to start and had some dirty plugs. An average guy should know that is going to lead to a blown engine? Well if that's the case then the dealership is REALLY negligent because they supposedly went over the engine and said it was fine/ fixed it. Once it is fixed and starts and he goes out boating, what should he have done, stop and pull the plugs to see if they were now clean?<br /><br />So, the novice should have known better and the expert should not have?<br /><br />So, it was the owner's fault for "picking" the wrong dealership in the first place?<br /><br />So, the owner is wrong again for bringing it to yet another dealership to figure out what really happened?<br /><br />Now I get it.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

it was fouling brand new plugs in 3 hours so bad<br />he could only get the motor running by installing<br />new plugs while out at sea. motor wouldn't even<br />start it was so bad. install new plugs and they<br />are completely fouled in 3 hours? so he takes it<br />to #1 who can't find the problem, so he knows it<br />hasn't been fixed.<br /><br />common sense (regardless of degree of OB knowledge)<br />1) something is wrong with the motor.<br />2) #1 didn't find or fix the problem.<br />3) problem still exists<br />4) should not run motor till problem is found/fixed<br /><br />would you seriously have continued to run the motor<br />knowing it had these problems? how many times<br />would you have changed plugs while at sea b4<br />knowing that the cause had been found/fixed?<br /><br />Will did rely on expert advice (real bad advice)<br />but didn't use common sense IMO. he has to carry<br />some of the blame for this. (not all)

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

would you seriously have continued to run the motor knowing it had these problems?

You bet because I just spent $500 at a dealership and was told it was fine/fixed. I would get in the boat (like he did) and went for a ride (like he did). And when it blew during that ride (like it did) I would have gone after them (like I hope he does). Not everybody who runs a boat is a mechanic.

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Melloyellow:<br /><br />If you read my previous posts you would see that I was willing to pay for parts ($2700-$3000) and let the 1st shop do the labor for free. I'm not looking for a handout or for reimbursment of the whole $4500 it took to rebuild my ob. However, the way the 1st shop treated me as a customer who had recently dropped about $800 in repair work (1st and 2nd trip) was unacceptable. I've already spent $4500 and got what I paid for...a brand new ob that runs perfect. I'm going to get an apology out of the 1st shop or their going to court. I don't care if I get any money out of it....they need to pay closer attention to their quality of work and customer service.<br /><br />The only thing wrong with the motor is that the top 2 carbs were not functioning correctly (fact). ALL other systems checked out. The recirculation system was functioning correctly, the 2nd mech looked at these parts (fact)and verified this.<br /><br />I called Bombardier after it was torn down and explained the situation to the rep. (he was extremely fimiliar with this engine as he was one of the engineers) He said that it was entirely possible that the bearing failed because of a lean condition. However, he also said that sometimes bearings will just fail (especially on that engine)(that's what seahorse alluded to)<br /><br />I'll let you guys know the outcome. They have 15 days to resond.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Will, that was a fair offer IMO. he should care<br />enough about his biz to do something to make you<br />happy and keep you as a customer. he is obviously<br />not either a good biz owner OR a good mech.<br />you seem like a very reasonable guy to me. I make<br />these points because I think a judge will if it<br />comes to this, not to blame you. it is one of the<br />first things they will look at I believe.<br /><br />Ralph, Will was told by #1 that he couldn't find<br />anything wrong with it, not that it was fixed.<br />but we are splitting hairs here, he has already<br />taken his fair share of responsibility it seems.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Take them to court. If anything hopefully it will get that #1 mech fired for being incompetent. Maybe also it will get them to be a better shop.<br /><br />Letting them off just teaches them its OK to make glaring mistakes and tell people to "just run it".<br /><br />However, I have to add my parents experience. They hired a guy to build a new room on the house and they were worried the slab would settle/crack and he promised them it wouldnt, but it did anyway. They took him to court and lost. I dont know why it cracked or if it was his fault, but he should not have made that promise. Just like the guy should not have told you to "just run it"<br /><br />Ken

 

[denniz]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Atleast you ended up finding a good mechanic.Good luck to ya. Let us know what happens.

 

[Forktail]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

It looks like this is going in the right direction. <br /><br />Will seems like one heck of a reasonable guy. He brought the outboard to Shop #1 twice, giving them a second chance to fix it. He let them remove and inspect the carbs (which they didn't do a very good job of). Then he trusts their diagnosis. Keeps his cool when the outboard blows. Pays for the tow, Shop #1's fees, and new power head. Comes here for help, because he doesn't want to do the wrong thing. <br /><br />Now all he wants is an apology for Shop #1's poor service.<br /><br />Seems fair to me. Shop #1 would be stupid not to apologize. But unfortunately, they'll probably apologize and laugh all the way to the bank, only to stick the next customer the same way. Sometimes the only thing that effects them is their pocketbook. If I was going to eat the cost of the new power head, I'd at least demand my money back for Shop #1's service.<br /><br />Where Shop #1 really went wrong.....was treating this guy like a POS.

 

[Walt T]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

You're right Forky. Unfortunately sometimes techs forget that just because a man doesn't know a spark plug from a manifold, it doesn't mean he is stupid. Lawyers, Doctors, Scientists all own boats and quite possibly may know nothing of what makes it go. That's quite allright as I have no knowledge of anatomy 101. <br />On the flip side of the coin I once had a customer who paid $1500 for a jet repair after ingesting rocks and then kept driving it. He picked up his boat and immediately headed to a local lake. I soon get a call from a very irate customer who in between various cuss words and all manner of combinations therof manages to tell me he cant get his boat started. Nothing happens, no click, nothing. I say are you sure it's in neutral? He says 'what do you think I'm stupid you &*&%$^&(_()*&%$#$#$#?? Of course it's in neutral, I paid you fifteen hundred and now it wont start you dumb *(^&%^$#@@^&**$#@!!'<br />Okay so I go out there hop in put it in neutral and it starts right up. He says 'hey you're not gonna charge me for a service call are you?' His buddy and their girlfriends are standing there obviously embarrassed by his behavior. I didnt charge him but when he called again for another repair I told him I wasnt working on his boat anymore. <br />No point really I just like that story.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

if it were me, I would go after the labor ($1500)<br />and the money previously paid ($800) and file a<br />small claims for $2300.<br />Will was smart enough to diagnose the no starting<br />problem himself and have an extra set of plugs<br />aboard and the tools to R/R them, so I suspect he<br />is not completely ignorant about motors <br /><br />I think Will has handled this entire thread very<br />well and if he is as reasonable in small claims,<br />I believe he will prevail!<br />good luck,<br />M.Y.