To sue or not to sue!

[willxuout2]

Hey guys,<br /><br />I just wanted to get some feedback from you. Have any of you had to sue or tried to sue a boat dealer mechanic for negligence? I had a repair shop troubleshoot a problem with the carburation. They came back and said...."add more oil" (I premix 50:1) about 3 hours later the upper crank bearing disintergrated. It ruined the crank and upper crankcase. It cost me $4500 to rebuild. The "qualified" mechanic who diagnosed the reason for the seizure said it was carburation. The very problem I had the other shop look into. The problem was that the fuel lines from each of the top two carbs were old and when I ran WOT or close to it the lines were restricting and causing a lean condition. I didn't believe him so I want down myself and looked at what he was talking about...sure enough...then fuel lines were restricted. If the other mech had even visually inspected the carbs he would have noticed the restriction. Anyway, I hired an attorney to write a demand letter to the boat dealer.<br /><br />What do you guys think?<br />

 

[Walt T]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Worth a try. Let us know what happens.

 

[JB]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

It's frivolous suits like that that run up our maintenance bills and insurance premiums, Will.<br /><br />Your case that they caused your engine to fail is so thin I can read a newspaper through it.<br /><br />You probably made a poor choice of dealers. . . twice. The first one overlooked what might have been a problem, the second one went off half cocked and blamed the first one for the failure.<br /><br />If you sue dealer one, they will sue dealer two for defamation.<br /><br />You will lose, the dealers will lose, the dealers' insurance companies will lose and at least three lawyers will get richer.<br /><br />Not a good idea, Will.

 

[neumanns]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I agree with JB in not so many words. It's called preventatve maintanance. Take this into account along with a dose of it's yours you own it you get the enjoyment out of it along with the responsibility of if something happens it's yours to deal with.<br /><br />IMO...Don't sue, Sorry for your misfortune but it's yours. If the mechanic was soley responsable his rates would be $1500 an hour. His rates are $50 to $100 therfore all you get is his guess not his garantee.

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

JB, I agree with your statement that frivolous law suits run everybody's cost's up and the only people that really benefit are the lawyers. (I never sued anyone in my life for that very reason) However, as far as the second dealer blaming the other, I don't think so. Let me explain....When the motor blew up I took it to the 2nd dealer and paid them to diagnose the failure, they were not aware of the 1st dealer's recent inspection, therefore, they weren't even considering the blaming the other dealer. What I got was a reason for the blowup, pure and simple. That's what I paid the 2nd dealer for. The 2nd dealer when they found out what the 1st dealer had done only went as far as saying that this wasn't the first time someone had come from the 1st dealer with the same situation.<br /><br />Where I have the problem is that I PAID and 1st dealer almost $500 between two different trips to possibly find the problem with the top two plugs/carbs. They have certified boat mech that are responsible for repairing the motors. That is why people like me take OB to them...for PROFESSIONAL repair work and diagnosis. Most PROFESSIONALS are held to a higher standard because they are PROFESSIONALS. Therefore, when I pay a professional to diagnose a OB because I as a novice can see that there is something possibly wrong with the top two carbs I EXPECT them to do their job. At the very least (I have learned) they should have rebuilt all six carbs ($600)and replaced the fuel lines.<br /><br />What made me decide to sue was their attitude toward me as the customer. I went to them and told them the motor seized up and the guy just looked and me and said "SO" What do you want from me? I was courtious and polite and didn't expect anything but for them to stand behind their work.<br /><br />I 've learned alot about OB's in the last six months. You would have to be a "MORON"!!! not to diagnose the problem when it's carb related. There isn't much to it. If the motor is getting the proper amount of fuel/oil then it getting lubed. Simple isn't it. That's why I considering sueing them.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Hi Will,<br /> I am a weekend mechanic with many satisfied customers. However, even the best of us miss something from time to time. It just happens. I once had a 70hp Johnson in the shop that would run great with the carb breather off, but would stall once the breather was put back on. I scratched my head for a couple days on that one before my wife, who's about a foot shorter than I am, noticed that the carb breather cover was pinching the fuel hose - something I hadn't noticed from my 6-foot-4-inch vantage point.... I r-routed the fuel line and the motor ran beautifully.... Just goes to show that sometimes even a seasoned mechanic can't see the forest for the trees...<br />- Scott

 

[Forktail]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I'm in agreement with you Will.<br /><br />You are not a professional outboard mechanic. So you took it to someone who is. You paid them to diagnose and fix a problem. 3 hours later your outboard blows up. You give them a chance to make it right by going back, but they decide to blow you off. A more reputable shop finds that the problem was not only simple, but for some reason it was overlooked. Now you're out $5,000 hard-earned bucks.<br /><br />No one likes to use the law and the courts to get restitution. But this is not a frivolous suit. There is the priciple of the matter, not to mention a large sum of money at stake.<br /><br />IMO, you are entitled to your money back for their service ($500), plus a large portion (or all) of the repair bill. You have expert testimony from another more reputable and professional shop. I'd look into small claims court and try to stay away from the attorneys at all cost. Maybe pursue it with the BBB, consumer advocates, etc. instead.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Did they create the problem? No. Could they have discovered it from a visible inspection while they were under the hood? Maybe, if it was obviously pinched or something. Even so, if they didn't create the problem, they're probably off the hook. You might be entitled to your money back, but I doubt they'd be responsible for the rebuild. You also have to take depreciation into account. If you won in court, the age and value of the motor would be taken into account and they would not be held responsible for the full amount.<br /><br />Think of it this way. You take a boat in for a tune-up. Two weeks later your water pump fails and roaches the powerhead. If rebuilding the water pump is not part of a tune-up, they have no liability fot the failure. Especially if they confirmed that the water pump was working when they completed their work.

 

[Walt T]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Usually a phone call or a letter from an attorney will get your money back from the first shop. I doubt you'll get re imbursed for the cost of the major repairs though.

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Forktail....thanks...but I have to say that I don't care about the money...I've paid the bill, have a really good running motor with a reman ph and like is good. I just want the 1st dealer to talk to me face to face and apologize for their mistake. Sometimes the only way to achieve that is to get their attention. I called the dealer several times and asked for the owner and all I get from the lady on the phone is...Why? what's wrong? she gets real defensive and won't put me through to the owner. She doesn't even know who I am. Weird uh. <br /><br />Chinewalker, I agree with you...we all make mistakes from time to time and if it were me I would at least make an effort to help out a customer. We all know those people who are looking for ways to get things for free and will make all kinds of claims. That's not me....If that 1st mech had admitted he made a mistake and offered to pay for the reman ph and given me the labor for free I would have accepted that. Hey, I never did expect a ph for free...after all....I'll end up with a "new" motor that I would benefit from for years to come.

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I meant that I would have paid for the reman ph and he could have provided the labor for free.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I guess the qustion is did they rebuild the carbs at all and did they do it properly? THEY should have inspected the lines, also. That may account for the failure, in which case I would look further into it. The lines being pinched could kill you though, as this is something you should have caught by maintenence, Tough call as the time in-between the first diagnosis and the failure is unknown. They should have caught it the first time and that may have saved you. Give it a shot and good luck...

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Rick...here's the catch...the 1st mech said they removed the carb assembly from the motor and inspected the carbs. To do so he would have to disconnect the fuel lines to the carbs. Which means he reconnected the rotten fuel lines. Hmmm.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

This is a tough call! <br /><br />I recently purchased a used 1800SF Tracker with a same year Merc 150. Just as preventative maintenance I changed the filters, fuel lines and did a visuall inspection of everything I could find! Now I am a mechanic of sorts so I have an Idea what can go bad over the years and looked for those things! Now if you are the type that dosnt know a spark plug from a screw driver, then you have to rely on someone else!<br /><br />Personnally I beleive that the dealer should have told you to replace the fuel lines knowing the age of the engine! Also if he had his hands on the bad fuel lines, It only stands to reason that he would have done it if only to charge you more! Id never go there again and make sure anyone I knew dosnt either!

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

LubeDude...Like I said...I've learned alot from this experience. At the time I was relying on the 1st mech because I really didn't know anything about outboards. Now...I'm much more knowledgable when it comes to looking for the troublespots. Thanks in part to this board. Some of the guys on this board can help alot of the outboard novices from experiencing what I did. However, when I first set out on this adventure I though I had already spent too much...boy was I in for a surprise.

 

[Forktail]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I don't really understand the thinking behind WillyBWright's comments, especially since he is a marine service tech. <br /><br />Had the diagnosis been done properly and completely, as the owner assumed it was to be, the blown engine wouldn't have happened. <br /><br />The owner didn't create the blown engine. In fact he made a 100% attempt to prevent it by taking it to a professional. He paid $500 to keep this exact kind of thing from happening. That's about as preventative maintenance as it gets.<br /><br />And the shop is not off the hook because they didn't create the problem. The owner could've just as well taken the outboard to any other shop that would've prevented this from happening. The only neglegence and ignorance here is from the shop, not the owner as he tried. <br /><br />BTW, shops don't generally create any of the problems they diagnose. But when a customer pays, they are held responsible for providing correct diagnosis.<br /><br />The tune-up/waterpump example was a very poor analogy. It's not like the owner brought the outboard in for carburetor work and the engine blew because the impeller went out. The owner specifically pointed out where he thought the problem might be (top two carbs). And that's where it was. And the blown engine occurred only 3 hours after their poor diagnosis, not two weeks.<br /><br />Checking the carb's fuel lines was a no-brainer in this instance. It's always part of a carb inspection. If the shop did that, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, and the owner would have the $5000 in his pocket.

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

Forktail<br /><br />Just as a side point about the 1st shop. When I went to the shop to tell them my motor had seized up the head mech said "I can tell you without even looking that the VRO failed...those motors aren't worth rebuilding" I knew right then and there that they would never touch any motor I had again! VRO gets blamed again! BTW, the motor is a 96 Evinrude 225hp Ocean Pro. After the rebuild it runs better than ANY outboard I've owned. I hope to get about 700 hrs on the reman ph. Keep the carbs clean. tune-up every 70 hours. Run fresh 87 octane fuel and fitch oil. Decarb every 100 hrs. [700 hrs translates to about 10 yrs for me (70 hrs anually)]

 

[Forktail]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I bet when you told him you pre-mix 50:1, the expression on his face was priceless. <br /><br />Glad it's working out for you, as a new 225 HP would cost way more than $5000.

 

[willxuout2]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

You got it! That's where our relationship went bad....I guess he knew he was a fool!<br /><br />Anyway, like you said "where can you buy a new 225hp for $4500" We looked at getting a 200hp Honda then decided to rebuild this one.<br /><br />Later

 

[brother chris]

Re: To sue or not to sue!

I don't know. I would sue him, cause I don't have 4 grand to spend on a motor...OR...maybe if you came to him with your lawyer(since you already hired one), and see if the guy will settle by giving you a deal on something. Who knows.<br />You should get something out of it. I was about to say maybe a free service, but I would not want to bring my motor back to him after he failed to notice what is wrong. <br />I had a similar problem(but no so costly), when I took a 75hp evinrude to a dealer. He replaced my waterpump and seal, and the same day, I took the boat out, and there was the leg oil leaking again. I took it back to him and complained about it, so he fixed it. But he did not fix it for free. The SOB charged me for it, saying that it was MY fault. I don't have time in my life for people like that. I have many, many friends who boat, and I recommended him to all of them. So...as soon as that happened, I called them all and told them what happened. He just lost ALOT of business. <br />I am just learning how to do all this stuff myself so I don't have to pay others to do the work. Unless of course I don't want to do the work <br />Hope your motor works great for you!<br />Cheers, <br />Bro Chris...