Tilt / Trim problems :(

[SHickey]

Hello.... I'm pretty frustrated I can't seem to get the tilt/trim to work properly. I have a '72 Starcraft American 20 with a 165 mercruiser motor. I believe the outdrive is a MC-1 but not 100% sure.
Last season after I brought the boat home and the outdrive would not go down....After several attempts, I disconnected the cylinder hose, got the outdrive down and winterized the boat.
Today I noticed one of the hose connections was loose at the bottom of the pump and my reservoir was almost empty. I re tightened all of the connection, filled the reservoir and kept my fingers crossed. With the outdrive in the down position from storage, I hit the up switch and the the pump ran for about 3-4 seconds before it stopped. I hit the down switch and the pump ran fine. Hit the up again and the pump would only run a second or two before it stopped.

I went to the cylinders and loosened the fittings and could see some air bubbling from the connection. I farted around for an hour trying to figure out the problem and needed to see if anyone could help.

I hate to think this pump that's 50 years old is failing me and it would be a little surprising considering it's been very reliable for the last 20 years I've had the boat. I do have another pump to swap out if it's necessary. The swap out job would be a little difficult for this 65 year old senior but if forum participants believe the old pump is shot or too weak to operate properly than I'll put my overalls on and climb into the bowels of my boat motor compartment.

Any suggestions or tips would be most appreciated because I really don't want to do the swap unless it's 100% necessary. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
SH

 

[kenny nunez]

Did you disconnect both hoses on the ram? The high pressure hose on the bottom of the pump tends to loosen over time.

 

[SHickey]

Did you disconnect both hoses on the ram? The high pressure hose on the bottom of the pump tends to loosen over time.

Yes Captain.....I disconnected both hoses on both cylinders and made sure all connections from the pump were tight.

I was just out at my barn and I tried the system again. When I hit the up switch the pump motor barely runs, it sounds like it's under a tremendous pressure and the unit is still not budging up. When I hit the down switch, the pump sounds normal but nothings happening because the outdrive is already down.....very frustrating.....:/

 

[matt167]

MC1 has an unloader switcher of sorts. You probably have an issue with the valve. You should be able to swap to an alpha pump which has the switching internal

 

[kenny nunez]

The most forward port on the trim block under the gimbal housing is the up circuit. On the rams the most forward port is the up no matter which side. There are no right and left rams. You have the hoses crossed.
Just remember front to front, back to back.

 

[SHickey]

Thank you both captains for your responses....I do have the hoses to the cylinders configured correctly. Getting back to the unloader switch, is that an internal switch inside the pump motor itself and if it has failed, would you recommend I swap out the spare pump motor I have from a boat I salvaged and see if I can get it working again..... honestly, I'm not very good a figuring out these electrical hydraulic problems..... thanks again for your responses... SH

 

[kenny nunez]

In the brush head cover of the motor is where the thermal switch is located, it is part of the cover.
Before you switch to the used pump spare be sure it does run. The 3 bolts that mount the pump body to the inner transom plate can be somewhat of a problem depending on the boat’s construction.
Take some pictures of the wiring before starting to disconnect anything.
Try to post a picture of the spare pump.

 

[SHickey]

Sounds like a plan.... the two pumps look identical and the spare did operate the boat I salvaged.... the only difference was the salvaged boat had a MC 140 and my boat is the MC 165.....but from my estimation the units look identical....and yes.... crawling back into the back of that transom is not my idea of spending a nice afternoon......but who better to do it but me....here, most all marinas do not work on anything older than 20 years old.....for some reason.... :/

 

[tank1949]

Yes Captain.....I disconnected both hoses on both cylinders and made sure all connections from the pump were tight.

I was just out at my barn and I tried the system again. When I hit the up switch the pump motor barely runs, it sounds like it's under a tremendous pressure and the unit is still not budging up. When I hit the down switch, the pump sounds normal but nothings happening because the outdrive is already down.....very frustrating.....:/

For humor, manually jump pump at solenoid. Does system have an OD limiter switch? That old of boat, you may have to replace both sender and limit switch. I have replaced several solenoids over the years. I learned to cover them with some sort of waterproof fabric. Salt water is worse than fresh water.

 

[EmilyWilson]

Hello.... I'm pretty frustrated I can't seem to get the tilt/trim to work properly. I have a '72 Starcraft American 20 with a 165 mercruiser motor. I believe the outdrive is a MC-1 but not 100% sure.
Last season after I brought the boat home and the outdrive would not go down....After several attempts, I disconnected the cylinder hose, got the outdrive down and winterized the boat.
Today I noticed one of the hose connections was loose at the bottom of the pump and my reservoir was almost empty. I re tightened all of the connection, filled the reservoir and kept my fingers crossed. With the outdrive in the down position from storage, I hit the up switch and the the pump ran for about 3-4 seconds before it stopped. I hit the down switch and the pump ran fine. Hit the up again and the pump would only run a second or two before it stopped.

I went to the cylinders and loosened the fittings and could see some air bubbling from the connection. I farted around for an hour trying to figure out the problem and needed to see if anyone could help.

I hate to think this pump that's 50 years old is failing me and it would be a little surprising considering it's been very reliable for the last 20 years I've had the boat. I do have another pump to swap out if it's necessary. The swap out job would be a little difficult for this 65 year old senior but if forum participants believe the old pump is shot or too weak to operate properly than I'll put my overalls on and climb into the bowels of my boat motor compartment.

Any suggestions or tips would be most appreciated because I really don't want to do the swap unless it's 100% necessary. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
SH

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Can I ask something?

 

[Grub54891]

Can I ask something?

It's best to start your own thread as your question will get better responses in the proper category.

 

[ScottinAZ]

if your pump has internal valving, it may have jammed hard. I had the one on my MC-1 do similar this year, and ended up having to replace the pump. Its a PITA, but now the trim works great, better than it has any time I have owned this boat.....

my symptoms were nearly identical to yours.

 

[SHickey]

So after talking to my marine mechanic, he suggested I switch out the 2 trim cylinders and low and behold the old cylinders I had saved from a boat I salvaged worked..... so freaking happy I could get the boat back onto the water before the end of the season..... thanks again for all of your input, I really appreciate all of the help.....

 

[johnkom]

I have a 1976 Sea Ray with original trim pump. Last week it labored to run and would finally go only go one way, up. I remove the upper motor cap and the brushes were totally worn/gone. Found a similar pair of brushes at our local ACE. With minor modification I was able to install them. Cleaned everything up and the trim works like new. 48 years on a set of brushes ain't bad. (If you remove the cap on the trim motor, don't loose the ball on top of the shaft.)