This is where State Socialism will lead you!

[12Footer]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

But then again I guess you can see government interaction of any sort and see socialism...........

I (for one) do, Pony. That's just one of many reasons why i am a neocon.
I'll name my kid "spiderman" if I so wish. Thank God, i do not, but just try to stop me. Put a leash on your storm troopers, will ya?

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

But then again I guess you can see government interaction of any sort and see socialism...........

I (for one) do, Pony. That's just one of many reasons why i am a neocon.
I'll name my kid "spiderman" if I so wish. Thank God, i do not, but just try to stop me. Put a leash on your storm troopers, will ya?

[colour=blue]Are you really a "neocon" 12Footer. You are more cornservative then me, (at least if I read your words correctly). I'm no "neocon", as I've always been Cornservative. Are you are former Lib turned Cornservative? JR[/colour]

 

[12Footer]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

[colour=blue]Are you really a "neocon" 12Footer. You are more cornservative then me, (at least if I read your words correctly). I'm no "neocon", as I've always been Cornservative. Are you are former Lib turned Cornservative? JR[/colour]

(Not to derail the thread, but to answer your question)

Yes, JR. I am a former Lib turned Cornservative. I used to be as left-wing as Pony and PWII, but took life's "hard-knocks" lessons to heart. My father often said, "fool me once, shame on you/ Fool me twice, shame on me". If we all learned from our mistakes, we would all be neocons I think.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

[colour=blue]Are you really a "neocon" 12Footer. You are more cornservative then me, (at least if I read your words correctly). I'm no "neocon", as I've always been Cornservative. Are you are former Lib turned Cornservative? JR[/colour]

(Not to derail the thread, but to answer your question)

Yes, JR. I am a former Lib turned Cornservative. I used to be as left-wing as Pony and PWII, but took life's "hard-knocks" lessons to heart. My father often said, "fool me once, shame on you/ Fool me twice, shame on me". If we all learned from our mistakes, we would all be neocons I think.

[colour=blue]VERY VERY KOOL!! Critical thinkin' wins again!! Luv it, I think Pony is a thinker too. It is only a matter of time. PW2: now that's another matter, (as he is from Seattle n' all). JR[/colour]

 

[POINTER94]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

Socialism is just a start. Government regulation and laws are now being deferred to the world court or the UN. And liberals in this country are celebrating it. What a disgrace. They had a story regarding the carbon footprint of the food we eat!

If following blindly the drumbeat of "regulation" is a solution to thinking for yourself, march on. But if you think that the likes of Al Gore and Kofi Annan speak for Freedom, Liberty, or Personal Responsibility, the line for Kool-aid is forming to your left.

We are all born Free. Laws, regulations, rules, ordanances, taxes, fees, tolls, licences, registrations, etc are used to limit personal freedoms. How many do we have now?

Saw this on a bumper sticker: Free Men Don't have to register to buy a gun. Not sure I totally agree, but the mindset is on point.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

How's this for a weird name? William Mitt Romney. I dunno 'bout you guys, but I'd go for Bill, Will, Willy WAY before Mitt. Then there's James Danforth Quayle. How about George Walker Bush? And lest we forget (and believe me I try) Tommy Thompson. Sheesh! Talk about parents with NO imagination. You Republicans have some people in your ranks with parents with some strange senses of humor too.

 

[12Footer]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

[colour=blue]VERY VERY KOOL!! Critical thinkin' wins again!! Luv it, I think Pony is a thinker too. It is only a matter of time. PW2: now that's another matter, (as he is from Seattle n' all). JR[/colour]

I am optomistic. I fully-expect them to at some point, wake-up and smell the smoke. They show by their own participation, that they "care about the future". Sooner or later (as with me), their utopian dreams WILL collide head-on with reality. It is inevitable, and just a matter of whether or not they see the forest thru the trees when it does.

Pony, Willy,PW et al more than likely get their news from one trusted (by them) source. And like me at one time, probably see only the "good aspects" of socialised medicine, without doing the obligatory math -- and discover the particular armed forces they champion iether consciously, or by being mesmerized by PBS.
I pray they do some day, I did.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

I am a former Lib turned Cornservative.

Actually you're cornfused.
I suspected for quite a while now a neo-con was a social liberal and imperialist dressed in conservative clothing.

If we all learned from our mistakes, we would all be neocons I think.

Now we have neo-cons thinking conservatism is a mistake.

Most political idealogy has a longer run in power than the 8 year neo-con effort. All that "learning" seems to have brought down the Republican majority too.

Neo-cons have damaged the conservative cause for years to come.

Unlike the liberals who take a proactive direct aproach to socialism, the neo-con by contaminating conservative idealogy is taking us closer to socialism also.

The lib's and the neo-cons, the lessor of two evils gets closer all the time.

 

[Pony]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

Pony, Willy,PW et al more than likely get their news from one trusted (by them) source. And like me at one time, probably see only the "good aspects" of socialised medicine, without doing the obligatory math -- and discover the particular armed forces they champion iether consciously, or by being mesmerized by PBS.
I pray they do some day, I did.

Thats not true at all. I rarely trust any single news source.

Seriously I have many more conservative views than liberal ones. I am not a left winger. I am very much in the middle. I have views that are strong both ways. I have voted republican more than democrat.........................My views stretch farther than what I type here in response to a specific post. Take this one. Socialism is bad in my opinion, but I differentiate our Liberals from Sweden's etc where you don't. Its semantics.

I really do hate governemnt intervention in anything, but there are times when I see it as the lesser of two evils. You guys seem to want to hold on to these 200 year old values that our country was founded upon, but there is a problem..............its a completely different world. Conservation wasnt an issue since half the country was un explored, and emissions were non existant. If we were left completely to our own wishes, and worried only about ourselves this would be the "Lord of the Flies" manifest. We can't be "1984" either. I dont want Big Brother looking over me either. I do however want the resouces on the earth to last so that my kids can still fish, camp, breath........


OMR, calling your response "liberal" wasnt in the political sense......hence the quotes. That word does have more than one meaning

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

You guys seem to want to hold on to these 200 year old values that our country was founded upon, but there is a problem..............its a completely different world.

Not many here would admit to wanting to hold on to these values as much as I do.

My biggest problem is those like you that don't want those values exactly as they were intended 200 years ago has left me and other Americans like me without a country.

 

[Pony]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

You guys seem to want to hold on to these 200 year old values that our country was founded upon, but there is a problem..............its a completely different world.

Not many here would admit to wanting to hold on to these values as much as I do.

My biggest problem is those like you that don't want those values exactly as they were intended 200 years ago has left me and other Americans like me without a country.

Thats a bit harsh. Calling me un American? ( I can read between the lines.) This is just a simple debate, settle down. I just now remembered why I dont even like to discuss politics here. No one wants to read or attempt to understand anyone elses views. If a view isnt the same as yours its wrong............how soon I forget that.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

After ya kill the industry yer pickin' on, (with the 'force' yer talkin' 'bout) and the Chinese are doin' what ya used ta do before the ol' 'force' forced 'em outa business, ya then need unemployment, retraining n' welfare.

That is rediculous. The new epa regs apply to anybody selling cars in America. They do not apply only to ford and chevy. And ford and chevy are free to stink up ther cars in the rest of the world....

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

After ya kill the industry yer pickin' on, (with the 'force' yer talkin' 'bout) and the Chinese are doin' what ya used ta do before the ol' 'force' forced 'em outa business, ya then need unemployment, retraining n' welfare.

That is rediculous. The new epa regs apply to anybody selling cars in America. They do not apply only to ford and chevy. And ford and chevy are free to stink up ther cars in the rest of the world....

[colour=blue]OK Rubber, Ya think my point is ridiculous eh? Let's break it down. #1 America is the world's largest well developed single country auto market. American mfgrs are loosing market share as they have been for many years for many reasons, (we shall talk about one of the big reasons here). #2 The rest of the world, (America has 300 Million people; the rest of the 5.7 Billion people live somewhere else), is the growth and future of the entire auto industry, which is very global in nature, (which also has a lot of overcapacity: BTW). #3 If nanny government forces domestic mfgrs to a set of standards dictated by Mr. Stalin, (ol' Uncle Joe does not care that Mars and other planets in THIS SOLAR SYSTEM are warming highlighting the Sun's effects on all the planets), not the market the domestic mfgrs get killed, (who have a still dominant but severly slipping market share that they really count on to fund their developments). #4 In that senerio: Stalin forces Algore's standards upon the domestic mfgrs who must respond as the majority of their sales and mfg capacity is here. HUGE ADVANTAGE: offshore mfgrs! #5 The offshore guys only have to adjust the autos headed to Algores' domain: THE FOOLS WHO LIVE IN THE USA, (fools as we allowed Mr. Gore to cornvince us to go back to the stone age 'cause the Sun was warming us a little, n' ol' Al need ta make some money sellin' "carbon credits" ta make lots of money off us fools who buy the credits so we can fly private jets n' have boats n' huge houses n' all); their 'domestic' base may remain largely unregulated, so they can adjust the exports but keep their main production unchanged. This is one MAJOR reason highly regulated domestic businesses competing in a global market fail to keep up with foreign competition: Rubber. Hope my point seems a little less ridiculous then before you read this explanation. Respectfully, (my gassy friend) JR[/colour]

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

That's a lot of long winded obloviating. Basically a baffle 'em with bullship scenario.

The majority of Toyotas are made here. And a lot of Fords come from Mexico. I also recently read that GM is the number one seller in China. Regardless of origin, because every car will require the same standards, there is no change in the playing field as far as competition. Don't worry, the corporations will still make money.

Sorry, I don't see smog control as an issue effecting our soverenity. I'm with you on a lot of things and I'm sorry I sniffed gas and voted for clinton. But I ain't sniffin gas here.

We can make cleaner cars and we can make more efficient cars. And it will be good for America.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

And stop making references to Stalin and Gore when you are directing comments at me. I vote to the right 99 percent of the time and I find such small minded labeling offensive.

Respectfully (I mean it this time), George

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

Pony, Willy,PW et al more than likely get their news from one trusted (by them) source. And like me at one time, probably see only the "good aspects" of socialised medicine, without doing the obligatory math -- and discover the particular armed forces they champion iether consciously, or by being mesmerized by PBS.
I pray they do some day, I did.

Thats not true at all. I rarely trust any single news source.

Seriously I have many more conservative views than liberal ones. I am not a left winger. I am very much in the middle. I have views that are strong both ways. I have voted republican more than democrat.........................My views stretch farther than what I type here in response to a specific post.

[colour=blue]I would have never pigeon holed you into a Liberal tag Pony, (someone else did). I can tell you are a thinker, from past exchanges. I also have many views that would be hard to categorize, but am a Cornservative on balance. I doubt you are in "the middle" as that is hard place for opinionated thinkers, (as you seem to be), to dwell. Ya have to be wobbly n' fuzzy with lot's o' shades o' gray to be a middle o' the road moderate, (which you don't appear to be) IMHO. I also vote Republican most but not all the time. Politics is trying to pick a person as judged by their statements, track record n. philosophy that most closely matches yours, and it is never a perfect fit, (so we all need to prioritize issues that we deem important to our objectives).[/colour]

Take this one. Socialism is bad in my opinion, but I differentiate our Liberals from Sweden's etc where you don't. Its semantics.

[colour=blue]Semantics is part of it, but experience is also part. As we age we see assumptions we had not play out in the real world. Once ya see that; you have a choice: #1 stick to your guns n' lie to yourself n' be unhappy inside. or #2 change horses mid stream. That is hard to do if you share your opinions with others, but it will make you more comfortable with yourself in the long run. Neocons like 12Footer are usually much more forcefull and black n' white, (no gray), then Cornservatives who have adjusted gradually over their lives with learned experience, (more Cornservative: usually). None of us have time or the inclination to share all the facits on a post or thread on the internet, and some Like Bro Haut n' maybe Tree comes ta mind may take points of view on these threads just to pull some others out of uncomfortable positions which tends to make their arguments for them. Are Bro Haut n' Tree Liberals? I really don't know, they are far to coy to tell, (at least for a guy with one brain cell), they may just dislike President Bush. [/colour]

I really do hate governemnt intervention in anything, but there are times when I see it as the lesser of two evils. You guys seem to want to hold on to these 200 year old values that our country was founded upon, but there is a problem..............its a completely different world.

[colour=blue]Pony the psychobabble term for what ya just said is 'rationalization'. If ya wanna do somethin' you are sharp enough to find a reason. The GOVERNMENT, (especially your own), is in a position to cause you and all of us great harm if not kept in check. That is one of those plain facts from history: Pony. The Founding Fathers knew that and set up the World's best system to date. Maybe you have heard the term: "if it aint broke don't fix it". The worlds MOST SUCESSFULL SYSTEM by a wide margin. Most people in the world want to come here. That is enough to make ya pause if you are a thinker as you are: PONY. Nuff said here.[/colour]

Conservation wasnt an issue since half the country was un explored, and emissions were non existant. If we were left completely to our own wishes, and worried only about ourselves this would be the "Lord of the Flies" manifest. We can't be "1984" either. I dont want Big Brother looking over me either. I do however want the resouces on the earth to last so that my kids can still fish, camp, breath........

[colour=blue]Pony I could parse what you just said, but it would not pay as you have taken a position, (as is your right). That said: this is more 'rationalization' of your views.[/colour]


OMR, calling your response "liberal" wasnt in the political sense......hence the quotes. That word does have more than one meaning

[colour=blue]I will leave this too. (Not real sure what you mean here). Respectfully, JR[/colour]

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

That's a lot of long winded obloviating. Basically a baffle 'em with bullship scenario.

[colour=blue]I like ta bloviate Rubber. Sorry ya think it is all BS 'cause it isn't. But: to each their own. [/colour]

The majority of Toyotas are made here.

[colour=blue]Rubber, ya been sniffin' yer own gas or did ya get into PW2s' or Rolmops' stash? That MAY be true of the US bound cars but not the entire Toyota production.[/colour]

And a lot of Fords come from Mexico. I also recently read that GM is the number one seller in China. Regardless of origin, because every car will require the same standards, there is no change in the playing field as far as competition.

[colour=blue]OK: believe what you wish. I'm glad I don't get financial advice from you. [/colour]

Don't worry, the corporations will still make money.

[colour=blue]We will see. The domestic Auto sector is very sick.[/colour]

Sorry, I don't see smog control as an issue effecting our sovereignty.

[colour=blue]Never said it effects sovereignty. I said it effects the profitability and relative strength of domestic global competitors[/colour].

I'm with you on a lot of things and I'm sorry I sniffed gas and voted for clinton. But I ain't sniffin gas here.

We can make cleaner cars and we can make more efficient cars. And it will be good for America.

[colour=blue]The market should be used not 'force' of government, (even though the government could design market based incentives).[/colour]

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

[colour=blue]OK: believe what you wish. I'm glad I don't get financial advice from you. [/colour]

Thanks for slinging another back handed insult at me....

I am sure you are the great man of mystery in the financial world (as you often like to tell us) but I hate to break it to you that you are not the only one who is doing well financially.

Worse things could happen to you then to take my advice. Google up a price for a 3700 sq ft home in the 22180 zip code. Did you know I work for myself managing my investment portfolio? Alas, I don't give out advice... I like to keep the secrets to my success as my very own secrets.

When you gonna cut me some slack?

Respectfully, george

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

And stop making references to Stalin and Gore when you are directing comments at me. I vote to the right 99 percent of the time and I find such small minded labeling offensive.

Respectfully (I mean it this time), George

[colour=blue]Hey Rubber, Calm down. I have a style of rhetoric that may "offend" some but the offence you took was not intended to you or others on iboats: IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. I'm a pragmatic equal opportunity poster: Rubber. usually I don't pick on you as we agree more then not, and usually your posts are a comedy/serious mix that is usually hard ta parse into a point I want to share with the group. You called my statement "ridiculous", I tried to break it out for you AND OTHERS. Using Algore and Stalin are conseptual/semantic tools I intentually use to emphasize and or demonstrate my points. Sorry, (and I do mean that) but I don't plan to change my rhetoric unless iboats outlaws it. Respectfully, JR[/colour]

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: This is where State Socialism will lead you!

[colour=blue]OK: believe what you wish. I'm glad I don't get financial advice from you. [/colour]

Thanks for slinging another back handed insult at me....

[colour=blue]Rubber, You really are tourqued at me: what's up?(Please send me a PM rather then continuing to vent and hurl personal insults at me) hopfully I can stop what is bugging ya or maybe we just stop responding to each other.[/colour]

I am sure you are the great man of mystery in the financial world (as you often like to tell us) but I hate to break it to you that you are not the only one who is doing well financially.

[colour=blue]
Where did you get the idea I was rich guy throwing my wealth in your face or something? I never said that: Rubber. I worked in the investment banking field for 22 years with big wire houses, (that's all nothing more or less). I read in the past and still read their research, and it does influance my thinking, (very sorry that offends you). The research I read does not comport with your posts here. That's all Rubber: PERIOD. I am just sharing an experienced investment banker type prospective with the group and I picked on your post (your words: not you personnaly to start my rant, which may have been directed at you as you initiated my reply by labeling my post ridiculous). Please calm down and send me a PM. I will stop replying to you totally if you wish. Respectfully JR[/colour]

Worse things could happen to you then to take my advice. Google up a price for a 3700 sq ft home in the 22180 zip code. Did you know I work for myself managing my investment portfolio? Alas, I don't give out advice... I like to keep the secrets to my success as my very own secrets.

[colour=blue]Rubber, It is not and was not about you or me. I; like you: do my own research and make my own decisions. I am not nor have I ever given any investment advice here on iboats, You need to let this go.[/colour]

When you gonna cut me some slack?

[colour=blue]Right now. Will you do the same for me? Please send a PM and we can talk on the tele. or we can just agree that we are unable to post back and forth. Chill: my friend. [/colour]

Respectfully, george