Thinking about an upgrade for the tow vehicle

[tpenfield]

Greetings,

I've been thinking about selling my current truck and getting a bigger/better truck. My current 2012 F-150 EcoBoost is pretty well outmatched for my rig, which comes in at about 14,000 lbs. (boat + trailer). The dry weight of the boat is 11,080 lbs and the trailer is 1,600 lbs (12,680 dry combined).

Since it is too much of a white knuckle ride to any local scales, I've made a few estimates of the actual weight and they come in optimistically 13,400 lbs and pessimistically 14,600 lbs. So, I'm targeting a 15,000 lbs published tow rating ( 22,000 'ish' lbs GVCR). The used trucks that come in at that range in the Ford lines are . . .

• 2005+ F-350 6.0, 6.4, 6.7 Diesel/Gas Triton 6.8 V10 . . .Dually (15,000 lbs)
• 2011+ F-250/350 Diesel (14,000 lbs)
• 2017+ F-250/350 Gas 6.2 w/4.30 ratio Diff (14,000 lbs)

The Dodge 3500's of that vintage come in a few 100 pounds short of the Ford numbers (interestingly enough, their manual transmission ratings are much higher than the automatic tranny versions). I'm looking only at auto trannies. So, my focus has been mostly the Fords

I'm keeping my budget low . . . figuring to keep things under $20K. The trucks that come in to that range (15K lbs and <= $20K) are mostly the older (2005 - 2010) F-350 Duallys. The engines are either:

Ford:

• 6.0 PowerStroke Turbo Diesel (2005-2007)
• 6.4 PowerStroke Turbo Diesel (2008-2010)
• 6.8 Triton V10 Gas (2005-2010)

I'm wonder if any of the truck experts on the forum have any comments about the F-350 series or any of these engines in particular?

My understanding is that the 6.0 PowerStroke was not good, unless the aftermarket mods have been done ("bulletproofed"). The V10's had some spark plug ejection issues in the early going, but that had been corrected by 2005. Not sure what other issues may be lurking out there?

Thanks in advance for any comments about the F-350 DRW's and any of these engines.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Skip the V10s

Go diesel (except the 6.0)

I would go with the Dodge/Cummins myself as it is not a light duty diesel like everyone else. It is industrial based

All the trucks with automatic transmissions will eventually have transmission issues. Ford and GM now share transmissions

Last Ford truck with a manual was 2008. GM was 2007. Ram was 2018 (Mexico only 3500)

If you look, you can get a Ford 450 or 550 with low miles for a while lot less than the 250/350s. Swap out the utility bed for one from an F250/350 and sew up a nicer interior.

Or go the the heavier duty 650/750 and get the Cummins motor

 

[matt167]

In those generations, a Ram Cummins is really the only one. 5.9/ 6.7 pre emissions. 6.0 Ford was actually built from an industrial version used in some school busses and such, but the Cummins is actually more common in school busses.
6.0 can be decent but if it’s not bulletproofed with paperwork than it’s a money pit… all 6.4 and early 6.7 have problems… all trucks after 2011 will have DEF problems and all 2008+ trucks with DPF will have problems… basically all diesels from 2008 on will have problems

 

[rustybronco]

7.3L ford was a decent engine just make sure the oil pan isn't rusty or the rear main isn't leaking. Finding a truck with a decent body is going to be the real issue.

 

[tpenfield]

Thanks guys . . . lots of things to consider. I did want to get to 15,000 lbs towing rating, since boats tend to weight more than what one would think or hope for. My reason for upgrading is to have a truck that is spec'd to pull the weight.

The only published data that I have on the CY328/338 boats is "11,340 lbs with largest engine option", which is the 380 HP I/O. My engines are a bit lighter than the 380's. I have to assume that the spec'd weights from the boat manufacturers is without options, since it would make the weights vary. If I do the math . . . then boat, trailer, fluids, options, gear, etc. would be around 14,500-15K lbs. in a probable or worst case scenario. The trailer is spec'd to 15,600 lbs. total.

I did find an F-450 in a dually pick-up configuration. It's tow rating is 16,000 lbs. per the Ford charts. One thing that I am concerned about is if having a vehicle over the 26,000 GVCR would require a CDL (the F-450 GVCR is 30,000 lbs.). It seems like there is a bit of mis-information on the web about the 26,000 lb limit.

Most of these older Ford diesel trucks have engine work done of some sort. I'll have to give the Ram trucks another look. Their published tow ratings are a bit difficult to interpret and the ones I've looked at are coming up short of 14,000 lbs. It looks like I need to get a 2009 (or newer) with the 6.7 Cummins and 4.10 differential . . . I'll keep looking.

In the Fords, tow ratings did not reach 15K lbs until 2005 (250/350 with DRW)

I'd like to stay with model years 2010 or older to avoid the DEF. I don't really tow that often, but may bring the boat from my summer house once in a while to work on it over the winter. (90 miles)

 

[Scott Danforth]

the shop truck when I worked at Cummins was just a lowly 2002 24 valve 5.9 liter 3500 rated at 15900# routinely pulling a bit more than that....

I think it got replaced shortly after I left with over 450k on the clock

They make DPF delete kits...

 

[airshot]

If you tow regularly, I would bump that rating higher.. Towing regularly at max capacity is asking for regular repairs often. If you only tow on ocassion, why not hire a tow service and save your self some big bucks. Friends of ours use a tow service on there boat, once at the start of the season, once a halfway for cleaning and one more at season end....far less than the cost of a large tow vehicle....just a suggestion....

 

[tpenfield]

If you tow regularly, I would bump that rating higher..

As I mentioned, I don't tow very often. Maybe 4 times a year. I just want to get something that is spec'd to tow the load for highway travel and in case something bad happens.

EDIT: I got the trailer and current tow vehicle because the local boat hauling was getting pricey and hard to book. $400 each time - local hauling. So, about $1,600 per year with a mid-season haul-out.

 

[airshot]

If they are getting that much for a simple tow ( unless your a long way) mabey consider getting a big vehicle and pay for it by towing others boats !! I have a neighbor that has a 3/4 ton truck and he does on the side towing to make his payments, boats, dump trailers for fill dirt, concrete buggies etc. Makes 4-5 hauls each week, more than pays for truck and insurance...just another thought...this is what happens when weather is bad for fishing !!

 

[tpenfield]

If they are getting that much for a simple tow ( unless your a long way) maybe consider getting a big vehicle and pay for it by towing others boats !! I have a neighbor that has a 3/4 ton truck and he does on the side towing to make his payments, boats, dump trailers for fill dirt, concrete buggies etc. Makes 4-5 hauls each week, more than pays for truck and insurance...just another thought...this is what happens when weather is bad for fishing !!

I know . . . I've thought about it, and I believe I've seen others doing haul-out. Not sure I'd want to do that though.

 

[captmello]

the V10 ford is not a bad motor if you must look in that 2010 and earlier range. the 6.7 is much better but also newer and more expensive. can't speak on chevy or dodge. good luck!

 

[Pmt133]

The emergency response team I am on has both a 6.0 and 6.8 of the same vintage we use... I've run both with trailers about the weight you are looking at and I don't think I would want either personally. 6.0 is just a little weak but it gets the job done. The 6.8 screams with the same load as the 6.0. I know what problems can come of a 6.0 so I'd preferably avoid one, bulletproofed or not.

That being said I will say the 6.0 is on a 550 chassis and the 6.8 a 350 chassis. Despite being rated roughly the same as far as towing capacity, the 550 absolutely blows the 350 out of the water with the same trailer behind it as far as road manners and handling. Both are DRW obviously.

What you are describing is very much still going to be the upper end of a 350 of that eras capability but it would still be night and day going from a half ton to that.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Around these parts you’ll be hard pressed to find even a half decent truck rated at 15000lb towing for 20,000$.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Ted, you could always get a 550 with wrecked sheet metal from ridesafely, and swap your sheet metal / interior/ etc.....onto the 550 chassis.

Just tell the Admiral in advance

 

[tpenfield]

I have seen a couple of F-450 pick-up trucks on Ad listings.

 

[tpenfield]

I'd go for an F-450, but I think that there are CDL implications, if I read the DOT reg's correctly . . . https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/drivers

I know that the 26,001 lbs. is like a magic number to stay under.

It looks like the F-450 has a GVWR of 11,000 lbs (+/-) . . . By itself it is fine, but with the trailer that has a GVWR of 15,600 lbs, then the 'gross combined vehicle weight rating' GCWR is 26,600 lbs. So 'Class A' of the DOT reg's seems to apply. If I go with the F-350/250 series, their published GCWR is under 26,000 lbs for many of the models/config's, particularly the older models.

It seems like the new(er) trucks are coming out with some crazy numbers in the 30K lb. range of GCWR . . .

 

[tpenfield]

. . of course, I'm not sure if the 26,001 lb. reg applies if you are hauling for your own personal use . . .

Just thinking 'out loud' . . .

 

[alldodge]

Depends on your state but it's my understanding so long as the gross is under 26K no one says anything. Even the commercials have a disclaimer listing (for the most part) it can pull above 26K but can be used yada yada

 

[Pmt133]

What was said above is correct. Once you stick a commercial plate on the truck, you technically need the CDL with a trailer behind it regardless of weight. At least thats how the DOT explained it to us

 

[tpenfield]

Thanks for the comments so far . . .

I'm thinking to stay under the 26K figure. As I look at the towing spec's it seems that the published GCWR is reduced by the recommended max tongue weight. Essentially the tongue weight takes away from any residual carrying capacity of the truck. At least that is what I'm seeing in the Ford towing guide.

So, 10K lb. GVWR truck + 15K lb. GVWR Trailer = 23,500 lb GCWR published spec.

Worst case scenario would be the 10K + 15K = 25K lb. GCWR.

For me I have a 15,600 lb. GVWR trailer, so the maximum GVWR of the tow vehicle needs to be 10,400 lb. (10K even would be even better)

Anyway . . . after reviewing the towing guides for the last 20 years, I think I may try to avoid a diesel altogether. If I look for 2017 F-250/350 6.2L Gas 4x4 Super or Crew Cab, 148 - 164" Wheel base, and 4.30 Differential, they are spec'd to tow 15K, either 'Carrying' or 'Weight distributed'.

My budget would have to come up to the $30K range, but I wouldn't mind having the creature features of a newer truck

First order of business would be to sell the F-150. Then, I better start saving my weekly allowance . . .