The stRingers are out!

[OhioLowell]

Hello all!

Well I took a few hours today while the kids were napping and removed the old stringers and those "cool" shelf barckets from the transom.

BEFORE!

This is all 3 stringers!

Here is a shot of the interior of the transom now that the stringers and brackets are removed. Everything has been vaccumed out too.

Here's a shot towards the bow.

THere are several places that when the stringers came out they pulled off some resin with them leaving the fibergalss exposed. Those are the white spots in the pictures. Beleive it or not, I didn;t even break any of the ribs removing the stringers. There are still several rusted out screws left in the ribs that will need to be removed.

Now I suppose I move onto grinding out the area under and around the stringers? It has occured to me that I don't know the best thing to accomplish this. I was thinking a 4.5" angle grinder with a 1/4" masonry wheel. (Would a wire wheel work for roughing up the ribs that are loose? These are not a flat surface and wouldn't be able to be ground with a flat wheel. )

Will it hurt anything to grind out these areas right now. They'll get glassed and finished once the transom comes off. They will be kept dry and clean until they're finished.

Also, do you think it would hurt anything to lay a layer of mat down under the new stringers? I figure this will help to repair any damage done while removing the old stringers.

Would you guys recommend using resin or epoxy for all of my repairs? I'm leaning more towards epoxy. I know it's more expensive but it seems to be ALOT stronger. Will epoxy stick to fiberglass for the repairs? Can you lay glass in expoy?

Thanks so much for your help!

Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Firstly, keep to one post, starting many posts make it hard for those of us trying to help you to keep up. Keep all this stuff in ONE post.

Did you figure out the dimensions of the lumber going back in? Is it like 1X4 or a 2X4? Just curious cause it looks like not much room in there under the ribs. I also think that 1X? material wouldn't help much at all in adding rigidity to the boat. If it is that thin I would find some other material to put in there with-out using wood, cause it would just rot out. If you do use wood then make sure you fully cover the lumber in resin completely (maybe two coats) to prevent premature rotting of it, before sliding it back in.

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Sorry about the new post.

I have yet to measure the rib clearance but you'd be right in assuming about 1X material. The old stringers actually appeared to be notched where the ribs crossed over them. That won't be an option with putting them back in though.


Lowell

 

[Mark42]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

With that info, I would just cut the rubs off. Cut and fit new stringers, then remove stringers, cover completely with glass, then epoxy back to the hull.

But you should hold off installing the stringers until you get the transom made and installed.

Get the old transom out and post some good shots of the hull mating area.

Your doing a great job!

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

I agree with Mark42,

I would also just cut the ribs, then you can use beefier stringers, like 2X? material. Cover completely with glass like Mark said as well, and also epoxy back to the hull. If you are putting a floor over top of the stringers, then I would use stronger stringers, makes the boat stronger, and supports the floor better as well.

The more I think about it, I wonder if you should reconstruct stringers on edge, like in other boats of the early 60's (the runabouts),then you could use 1X? material and then glass them in and put a floor on top of the stringers as well. making a very solid floor and hull.

To do it this way. Take a chalk line (or any string), and put a line level on it, and then make reference lines to how high the new floor will be. Attach the string to the bow and stern area where you will be installing 1 of 3 stringers and measure ever six inches from the string to the floor. Put these measurements on your 1X? material and that is how you make your first stringer. Do this two more times moving the string to the location of the other stringers. Maybe I should draw you a picture. Tell me if you need more help with this. I can't see anybody disagreeing with this method. Very strong Hull, and very strong Floor.

Someone else should be here shortly to add to this, or I can later. But very importantly is to get your transom put in FIRST! So pull off your transom and place it on your desired lumber and pretty much trace it on there, cut it out, and probably do it twice as one sheet of plywood 3/4" will not be thick enough. I don't know how thick your Transom is right now.

How is the condition of your motor? If you need help with it, you can start a new post in the motor section with the appropriate brand.

Good luck, you have a great base with which to build a very fine boat. Not Cheap but very rewarding...

Patrick

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Thanks for the replies!

LEt me see IF I have this straight? I should remove the old ribs? COmpletly or just over the stringer intersection? I know they don't do much as most of them need reattached (epoxied). Will removing them hunrt the integrity of the hull any?

If I remove them the I would probably go with 2x material for the new stringers. I do under stand the measurement process you mentioned SAS. Would I be able to install the center stringer and then level across the top of it to the location of the other stringers to get the correct taper on them? I think it would accomplish the same thing just not involve a string for me to hang meyself with.

Yuo mentioned the stringers being laid on edge? Wouldn;t that make them prone to roll under the floor?

The new stringers should be glassed prior to instalation or when they are installed? DO you think it would be a good idea to lay some new mat under them prior to instalation?

As for the motor.. The motor I have now it and older 4HP evinrude. IT isn't much but will move the boat from point A to point B. I'm eyeing an older 15HP Evinrude right now. It will need some work but the price is right. I would think it would just about plane the boat but I don't know. The 4HP will work for this year and I can tinker with the 15 this coming winter.

THe existing transom is about 2.25" thick. I think 1" of that is plywood added onto the origional transom. I too would think that 1.5" of transom thickness would be adiquate up to about 25HP?

Thanks for all the help all!

Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Ohio,

I would cut the ribs just where you need to install a new stringer on edge. You do NOT have to remove all of the rib. I don't think it will interfere with anything and the added support wouldn't hurt either. It wont hurt the integrity of the hull to just remove where you want to install new stringers on edge. I wonder about the top of the flooring after you replace it. Will it be flush with the side of the boat, or will the ribs interfere there. You want to have as much flooring touching the walls of the hull when you lay it in. Here is what I would do...figure out how high the stringers are going to be, and then remove the upper part of the ribs so that when you install the floor, you have a lot of area to attach the floor to the hull. You want as much surface area touching the sides, when glassing the floor on, because it will ultimately add to the strength of the whole boat.

When making the new stringers, if you were to look at any older boat, then you would see that they all use 1X? material on edge. I would plan on using this plan, so you don't need to cut out too much of the rib. Also they did this because it was much lighter than using 2X? material. You will probably be using 1 X 10's (at least 1 X 8's) to make the stringers, and the added weight of 2 X 10's will not add any more strength, just weight. The stringers will not roll under the floor because you will be glassing them onto the floor and then epoxying them onto the bottom of the floor as well, as glassing the floor to the walls of the boat. This is how ALL boats of the 50's, 60's, and 70's into the eighties were made.

You should glass the stringers prior to installation, and then glass them to the floor and then put new wet mat on top of the stringers then lay the new resin covered plywood over top of the wet matted stringers. Then lay glass over the plywood as well, attaching it to the sides of the boat. It will last another 20-30 years with out problem.

I would like to see pictures of your 4 HP Evinrude. I am interested in how it looks...does it run well?

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Lowell, just be sure to where protective gear when grinding and sanding. FB dust is a killer in your lungs and eyes. Invest in goggles and a resperator or dust masks, you will thank me when you are my age. It's me

Rough and clean any area where you are going to use new resin.

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Thanks all for the info!

Let me start by saying that I'm a safety freak. I don't do anything that involves dust without a respirator. The good LORD only gave me 2 eyes and I prefer to keep them. Thanks for looking out for me though!

Now back to the boat. As for he stringers, I think that 1x8's will be WAY to tall. The old stringers where about 2" tall. If I install 8" stringers I'll only have about 8" of gunnel left. That won't work. I've got 2 little ones and I would rather have a lower floor to help keep them in the boat. I could see using 1x4, but I think that would be as tall as I'd go.. You're saying that I should just slice the ribs wide enough to install the stringers ( a 3/4" slit in each?)? Then I would epoxy the rib ends to the new stringers when they go into the boat.

The old floor was not attached to anything other than the stringers. DO I have to glass the floor onto the sides of boat? I understand the strength that this will give the boat and floor. If I do that then I'll have to remove even more of the ribs. Why not remove all of them to begin with. Would that effect the hull adversly?

Now onto the transom. I went out in the drizzle toady and tore into the transom. Believe it or not I actually found the origional fiberglass transom under all that rotten crap. Here is a shot of finding the origional transom. The fiberglass in in rougher shape but can be reinforced. I think that now that I know it's there my job will be easier. lol Yes you're right in saying, "that's linoleium glue", well you'd be right.

This is a shot of the transom after all of the rotted wood has been removed.

This is a shot of the interior of the transom after all the wood on the interior was removed.

THe old transom consisted of one layer of 1" cedar planking directly against the fiberglass (I'd say this was the origional transom). Fastened to the cedar was 1/2" plywood glued and screwed. On the interior of the transom was another sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed through the transom into the other wood on the exterior.

Now that it is all off I can start gearing up to start on the transom rebuild. The existing fiberglass transom does need a little work before it gets any new wood. The upper right side of the transom is a little weak. I think it would benefit from a little cloth in the corner before the new wood goes in. It will probably get at least one layer of new cloth over the exterior.

I plan on ordering my epxoy tommorrow. I do however have some fiberglass resin on hand right now. Can I use the two together? I mean do some of the fiberglass work with the resin to use it up then use the epoxy once the reisin is gone. Would that cause me a bonding issue? My understanding is that it will not cause any issues.

Thanks for all of the help!

Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Ohio,

If you are going to use 1X4 (which is fine), then it is true that you will have to remove the ribs. If I were you, I would just take the grinder and find out where the floor is going to hit the wall, and snap a chalk line. Then cut the ribs, so you will have a solid bond when the floor is butted right up to the wall.

I am thinking that those ribs were there because the floor was so low (2 inch stringers) and the walls needed reinforcing. In one of the original pictures, there was a "dashboard" in the boat. Mind you it was falling apart, and so I gather you removed it. Are you planing on reinstalling that "dashboard"? The reason I ask is becasue you will need to beef up the rigidity of the hull. I would recommend putting in either that "dashboard", or a couple of higher bench seats the run the width of the boat and can be glassed to the sides to increase your strength. You are definately gonna need it, especially if you remove those ribs...

I would STRONGLY advise glassing the floor to the sides of the boat. I also STRONGLY advise you to make sure and put foam of some sort under the hull as well, to increase flotation in the case of flooding your boat. Safety of your family is first and foremost.

Yeah, leave as much of the ribs as you can, it doesn't hurt and is added security to the strength of the hull. Reassurance is insurance when it comes to your family. The reason the floor was not attached to the walls was because of those ribs. They gave the boat support.

Now, on to the transom,

YEEHAW, on the fiberglass being intact. Great job on removing the wood and leaving the fiberglass. Awesome, as it will give you a perfect wall in which to build up against. You are one lucky guy so far, lets hope the luck doesn't run out....

I am not too sure if you should rebuild the transom like it was, or seal up the fiberglass that is on there (all the holes), and add all the thickness in laminated lumber to just the inside. My only dilemma is that the sides of the boat are not smooth (they are ribbed). I would want a strong fillet built up along the sides where the transom meets the boat edges. There is going to be some serious spaces in there.

If you do it that way (build up the inside), then I would make sure and reinforce the transom to floor joint very strongly, and make some strong corner pieces to anchor the tops of the transom to the sides of the boat. I'll draw a picture and add it on here....

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Thanks for the reply!

OK, I suppose I'll glass the floor to the hull. You mentioned glassing the floor to the transom where they contact each other. If I run the floor all the way up against the transom the how will I get th drain plug in and out if I run the floor all the way to the transom. The old floor stopped about 1' before the transom. I didn't plan on that much room but I was thinking about 4" or so. That would give me enough room to get the plug in and out and monitor any water in the bilge. This would also allow me to service the bilge pump. Theroticly there shouldn't be any water in the bilge but oyu know how theory usually goes.

As for the dash. Yes I do plan on replacing it in one form or another. I'm still working out the details in my mind. I do plan on adding a elevated casting deck n the front of the boat and probably 2 bench seats in the boat. When I get a chance I'll draw a picture of how my seats will look. The structure of the seats will add ALOT of stiffness to the hull. It gets more and more floppy the more material I remove.

As to the transom. You're thinking the same thing I was thinking. 2 sheets of 3/4" ply wood epoxied together then encased in glass. Then set inside of the fiberglass transom. Epoxied to the fiberglass transom. Once that epoxy kicks then the gaps around the transom where it meets the hull will be filled with slightly thickened epxoy. Once that starts to gel then the fillet will be added on the face of the transom where it meets the hull. Once that gels then I'll add 2 layers of FG tape to the joint a 4" layer and a 8" layer. I would think that would make it plenty strong enough? I was actually thinking of making the transom about 3/8" undersized so that I'll be able to fill the gaps around it where it meets the hull better?

DO you think I should try to clean up and stiffen up the existing FG transom? Or should I do that just prior to installing the new wood? I would think that that way it will all bond together rather than have to keep regrinding it all down each time?

I can use FG resin and epoxy together?

I forget ot mention about the 4HP motor. IT runs pretty good. IT's extremely cold natured and can really be a pain to get started sometimes. Usually once oyu get it started it will strat ok after that. I have learned that you don't want to move the contral lever to the off position to shut the motor off, you want to choke it out. If you choke it out it will restart easier.

Thanks
Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Good morning Ohio (it is 9:44 A.M. here),

Yeah I promised pics of what you should probably do....so hee they are...

This shows exactly what you described about laminated the wood on the "inside" of the fiberglass on the transom. But I added (or would add..LOL!) corner blocks on the edges (made out of 2X6 material) for added strength.

This just shows what else I would add to the transom to hull (or to floor after it is installed), for the most strength. You don't have to make them this big...on this guys boat, he was adding a ski python for his kids and was afraid of having the transom ripped off.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Here is what I would do about the bilge drain you are talking about..yeah I never thought of this, but in the old runabouts, it is done this way (meaning my boat)...LOL!

The area right around the drain is boxed in (look at my pic). Make sure you run the 2X? material all the way to the stringers, and make them tall enough for the floor to sit flush on them as with the stringers. This "box" should be filleted or glassed to have the water flow to the drain. Does this make sense to you? I can try and draw another picture if you like...just make sure all your lumber ties into the stringer system for absolute strength. Here is the pic...

 

[Mark42]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Actually, it a boat this size, you can cut the plywood floor and glass it in place, then cut some 2 or 3" holes in the floor and pour in expanding foam. Let it expand and ooze out the pour holes. It will glue everything together. With a solid foam fill under the floor, no stringers are needed at all in that size boat. And it will float no matter what.

It will save you a lot of work with stringers and such.

If you want, you can still put a piece of PVC tubing down the center with holes drilled in the BOTTOM side so any water thay might enter will have a place to collect and then you can drain it out the drain plug in the transom.

Probably won't cost too much for the amount of foam that boat will take.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Hey,

I don't know if I would do that. I would think that if you have any small leak, the foam would get rotten over a short period of time and then the floor would cave in.

I would definately put stringers in it for added strength. Especially if you are cutting out as much rib material as you are. It won't take that much time and you will feel that much safer with the added strength, and your boat will last much longer. Do it right once and then you will never have to worry about it again for twenty or thirty years. Your kids will thank-you for it when you hand it down to them when they get older...LOL!

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Thanks all!!

I was looking through some old "DIABLO" stuff that I had and arrived at the same idea for the drain plug access.

Not to offend but I don't plan on using foam underthe floor. I just don't like the idea. I know that's the way all newer boats are made but I don't like the stuff. I've pulled too much of the stuff old and rotten out of houses and that's not a "wet" environment.

I think I have made up my mind on a 1x6 for the center stringer and 1x6s cut to matchlevel for the outside stringers. That will give me about 18" from floor to gunnel in the back of the boat. The front won't really matter as that's where the casting deck will be anyway. If I build my seat in the back of the boat to be about 12" tall then that will give me about 6-8" of gunnel above the seat top. I'll work on drawing up the interior layout that I like.

Again thanks for all of the help!

DO you guys think my idea of undersizing the new wood transom by about 3/8 before it's sheeted in glass is a good idea. Thus leaving me room to fill the edges in with thickened epoxy when I install the transom?

Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Ohio,

Great choice on the stringers for the flooring! Yeah, use 2X? material when boxing in the bilge.

Also I read a post you had about trolling motors and you said that you found a battery that was 500 AH (or so you thought). Just to correct you on batteries, you were probably stateing the CCA which is the Cold Cranking Amps (short burst) as oposed to the AH, which is the Amp Hours. Amp hours are usually between 50 and 105. You can get 500 AH battereies but they probably weigh upwords of 200-350 LBS, or more.

I would strongly suggest using some kind of foam in the hull. You don't have to use pour foam, or can foam, but I would recommend using the sheeted foam from housing. If you ever have to remove the flooring, then it is so much easier to replace it.

The undersizing of the transom is just fine as long as you add those two things I want you to add for strength. The corners up top and the transom knees at the bottom. After you build that boat with thoas added features, you will have one smokin' boat. The kids will love it and so will the wife. Fishing will be so much fun...

I would build the casting deack a couple of inches below the rail, and that will provide tons of added strength to the boat. If you do have that casting deck, you will not need to install that full width "dashboard". The deck will give you the needed strength. In fact, if you don't want any kind of dashboard, then don't bother....I think you stated that you were going to have a tiller steering, so don't bother with the dash. If you build two full width benches, that will be more than enough strength for the hull to take whatever you can through at it.

I will tell you that I have a 14' fiberglass boat, with a 1961 johnson Outboard that is a 40 HP motor (it weighs in at 140lbs alone). I fortuneately have a molded fiberglass transom scoop that protects and add tons of strength to the transom. It is a splashwell that if water comes over the transom, that it is directed back out of the boat.

Your boat with those added features that I think you should install will give you so much strength, that you should be able to put on my 40 HP outboard...LOL! Good luck...

 

[JasonJ]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

If you are thinking foam, you need to know what the weight ot the boat, motor, and gear would be. Then you need to calculate the under floor volume. In order to keep the boat at the surface, you need to have enough foam to displace enough water to equal about 3/4 of total weight of boat on land (things are lighter under water). One cubic foot of water weighs about 65 pounds. If you are not going to be able to put enough foam under the floor, don't bother at all. No sense having a rot potential if there isn't going to be a floatation benefit.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

I am not exactly sure how it works, but if you have an area that you fill with something (anything), then the water which you don't want will not occupy it. This allows the boat to have something that prevents it from going to the bottom of the lake like a cement anchor. If you have nothing in the hull and it gets breached, and there is nothing to displace the water, then it will sink!

Something I feel is better than nothing....it's gonna do something to help...it's gotta....LOL!

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stingers are out!

Re: The stingers are out!

Yes the transom knees and corner gussets are a must. I finally drew up a little picture of what I hope the inside of the boat to consist of. Well at this point anyway. I forgot to draw what the benches will acually look like once they are installed.

Don't laugh at the art work as the only art that I've done involved a can of rustoleium and a water tower!! LOL

Lowell