The Paint Thread

[redfury]

I think it's high time that we compile our experiences with the different paints out there and discuss what we like and don't like about them. What I'd like to see is some specifics beyond " I just like it", if you know what I mean

For those that roll and tip, what size roller, what kind of brush, plus general working conditions.

For those that spray, what type of gun, tip size and air pressure seemed to work best.

For those that have done both, pro's and con's to doing each type of painting.

Finally, discuss the properties of the paint you used. How well did it flow, was sagging an issue on vertical surfaces. Did it flash dry too fast, or stay wet too long. How well did it sand if you had to repair a run and is it a paint that can be touched up, or do you have to repaint an entire section to get it right. Is it a paint that should be left to pro's or can someone with almost zero experience get the hang of pretty easily.

For you body shop guys out there, give us some tips on proper prep, how to handle ourselves personally when dealing with the materials and setting up our paint booths ( if we even have one at all, or if it's just simply plastic sheeting hung up )

It's easy to think that a lot of this is common sense when you do it everyday as your job, but for the person whom has never picked up a paint gun, there are a lot of little nuances to anything that they aren't necessarily going to think about....help us out with them!

 

[redfury]

Re: The Paint Thread

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=257606&highlight=paint+types
some good info here from WCA Tim who did some testing on his own.

Feel free to add links to other threads that discuss this popular subject.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: The Paint Thread

Hello Red..

If your asking Best of the Best paint for your "topsides" ..or "bottom" .. or "decks" .. "small" or "big" boats..

As you allready know..there are MANY products out there..prep/primers are Numerous..

Depending on what you have allready on your boat should be considered what paint/gel you should look at to finish your topcoat..

So Ill bite here..

Small boats with gel that has completely failed should be gelcoated..

Most other boaters should use AwlCraft2000 ( primer and topcoat paint is expensive ). Prep is more expensive with sweat and brow taking there boat to top level. ( repairablility is good ).

However AC2000 can Only be sprayed..not rolled and tip.

Some should use Imron for colors ( its basically AC2000 ). ..but color matching can be more suitable for repairs. ( Imron has many base colors for matching ).

If you want the best of the best topcoat then go with the LP Awlgrip/Sterling. ( It is not very repair friendly though ).

Bottoms .. Sand with 80 and Inter**x 2000 then VC*17 it.

Decks.. hmmm.. hard to say depending on the boat..

YD.

 

[redfury]

Re: The Paint Thread

Well, that's it too, the cost of the product. Granted, there is the "best" way to do things, and then there's the "looks good from my house" way to do things.

Kinda what I was looking for. Not everyone here is capable ( or willing ) to put a show boat quality paint job on their boat, but want something that is still going to look good in the end, and last.

Prep is always key, and the first part of prep is knowledge, which is why I'm starting this thread.

Oh, and I'd like to hear experiences with glass and tin boats. My first step is to dewax my hull so I can start sanding and doing repairs.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: The Paint Thread

Which do you prefer Red..

I mean no disrespect..

"I think it's high time that we compile our experiences with the different paints out there and discuss what we like and don't like about them. What I'd like to see is some specifics beyond " I just like it", if you know what I mean "

Please kick off this with your own experience of what you like and dont like..roll or tip vs. spray..or rusto vs. epoxy..or Whatever vs. whatever..

I would like to know why you like...reasons..and applications..

have you voted yet ?

YD.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: The Paint Thread

My only experience with marine paint is with Interlux products. I will be the first to say i used a unconvential system to achieve the results i was looking for.

Prior to any work i have found wiping down the boat with Xylene gets the best results..Acetone will cut off wax and oils but it flashes off to quickely and leaves some residue..At least in my case it happend twice.

I always use a sanding sponge it seems to keep from gouging gel coat..and is much less agressive on new paint aka cutting out a occasional sag or run

Both perfection and bright sides tend to harden with time..In 70 degree heat i usally sand between coats within 24 hours..The paint is not really hard yet...I sands off almost like it a chalky substane..Again less work but more importantly being softer it cuts easier preventing one from sanding thourgh to the hull..Thats again cutting out imperfections and prepping for the next layer..

I start with no additives, i am looking for a heavy uniform color as a starting point and as mentioned above sanding when shes soft makes cutting out imperfection easy..Getting a good uniform base is hard,

From there i add thinner on each application unitl i get the finish i am looking for..never more that 20% and it usaully takes me 4-5 coatings before i am happy

Last i use a roller to apply...roll out for maybe 3-4 minutes then go back and flatten the paint with another roller. It leaves a very fine nap that flattens like glass usually with in hours...Now once your flatten the paint your done thats your results you cant go back again and try to touch up The paint will lift and doesnt flatten..Its a tricky balance of when the paint will still flow and tacky enough to flatten and lay down...Aka after 4-5 layers you usally know how the paint is setting up in the conditions your painting in.

The rollers are closed cell urethane foam

 

[Isaacm1986]

Re: The Paint Thread

I have used the rustoleum paint a lot. Both the roll and tip and the HVLP sprayer.

For the roll and tip, the paint came out looking very nice. It was very time consuming and took 2 people to accomplish the job. We used 7 inch foam roller, and a fine bristle brush. We also thinned the pain a little with penetrol to make sure it would all lay out nice and flat.

For the HVLP, I bought a cheap HVLP sprayer from harbor freight and for the "at home" use it has perfect. I thinned the paint with penetrol and prayed the boat with 60 psi on my air compressor. Between each coat I wet sanded with 1500 grit sand paper. Results are fantastic! It really looks great!

I prefer the HVLP method, It uses a LOT less paint, and the finished result was outstanding. Well worth the investment in the HVLP.

This is my experience with painting boats. The rustoleum is hard to beat for the money. In my opinion it works great for people painting at home.

 

[i386]

Re: The Paint Thread

Interlux Epoxy Primekote and Perfection 2-part paint is all I have used so far. I've had good results following their directions for roll and tip. Only time will tell how long it will last. As with any paint job, prep is 95% of it.

 

[sprintst]

Re: The Paint Thread

My bottom paint was all Interlux...Interlux zinc chromate, NE2000 high build primer and VC performance epoxy.

The top coat was Endura paint.

http://www.endura.ca/

 

[bailey]

Re: The Paint Thread

For those of you who sprayed your boat, do you get alot of over spray. Would I be able to spray my boat on my driveway without worrying about spraying anything or everything around our house or our neighbors,or should I spray the boat in our garage, fully expecting overspray every where?
Bailey

 

[drewpster]

Re: The Paint Thread

My experience is also with Interlux Products. I roll/tipped all of it.
What stands out most in the application of it is that it is very picky about conditions and technique. But when you get that down it comes out looking outstanding!
My first job was outside in the driveway using Brightside one part paint. I did it alone on a deck. I used all Interlux stuff. (dewax, thinner, primer, paint) Good stuff, but expensive. You want lower temps and NO wind. Wind is the worst. The paint will have brush strokes and ripples if wind hits it. Do the painting in the early morning after the dew burns off. It seems to get worse if you add thinner so I used un-thinned paint. It took three coats to get it right. (again, expensive) It cured pretty quickly to the touch so insects and contamination were not a big issue. White primer/ white paint coverage was easy, but it still took three coats to fix my mistakes.
Next job was with Interlux Perfection two part also outside. Also roll/tipped, also all Interlux stuff. This one came out better sooner because I had a technique going. I worked in the morning as before. This time was on the hull side vertical surfaces. I worked alone. This paint flows better than Brightside does unthinned with NO wind. You have to work a little faster with it because some of the work time is taken up by letting the paint sit after mixing. ( 20 minute induction time) But make sure you do let it sit. Otherwise the paint will form tiny bubbles as it starts to react with the hardener. I had ton of trouble with this on the dark blue of the little boat.
The best job came with Perfection working inside my shop. I had two issues that I had to contend with, induction and surface contamination. This stuff is meant to come out very shiney. It WILL show every little defect, every little mistake, every little bug, hair or piece of lint. Darker colors are a pain on a large surface. I did the whole bottom of the boat and I wanted to push myself to learn the paint. It worked. It was a PITA, but it came out great after three coats ($$$) Do you see a theme here? This paint better hold up like armor or I'm going to be mad. But I did learn allot.
Cons- It is not perfect show quality even after all that work. But!...I think any paint system needs allot of experience and a booth to get just right. For a DIY paint job I think it is the best I have ever done. I just had to get over the sticker shock. And learn as I went.

The big boat was done outside, the little boat was done in the shop.

 

[redfury]

Re: The Paint Thread

Well, my experience with finishes is mostly in hardwood floors. My experience with marine paint is with Rustoleum Marine that I got CHEAP on clearance. I painted the topper of my truck with it. I rolled and rolled it outside. Anyone who's seen it before and after doesn't complain about how it came out to me, but I see the dimples and the spot where there was too much thinner put in the paint and it dulled. I've had some chipping in a couple of corners, but that's partly due to me removing a fiberglass topper off my truck via straight muscle ( and not enough of it ).

I sprayed it with my crappy electric sprayer on a truck fender. Wrong tip size and I put it on way too thick. runs and dimpling...did not flow very well for me in both applications. I think Penetrol would have helped a lot with the topper for sure.

I'm not sure which product I'm going to use to paint the boat yet, I'm still trying to put together my color scheme.

 

[6meter]

Re: The Paint Thread

For those of you who sprayed your boat, do you get alot of over spray. Would I be able to spray my boat on my driveway without worrying about spraying anything or everything around our house or our neighbors,or should I spray the boat in our garage, fully expecting overspray every where?
Bailey

I sprayed my dozer with an HVLP gun in my 24'x30' garage. It still got all over everthing. The next spray job will have plastic put up around it to contain it. You will end up with that color driveway or lawn. If the neighbors are 100ft away, no wind, should be fine outside.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: The Paint Thread

I've used interlux brightsides and the West Marine house brand paint, along with the rust-oleum marine paint they sell in local home depot type stores.

The Interlux and West are about the same as far as quality as far as I can see. They roll and tip well, cover well, and flow about the same, which is to say nicely.

The only complaint I have about them is that they take a long time to harden, especially in less than ideal temperatures. Days later the stuff still seemed soft, and it was a couple months before it was really hard.

Once it is hard it's pretty durable, I was happy with the look and finish, and I happened to find one color from West that perfectly matched my gelcoat.

The Rust-Oleum stuff is ok for some uses, but honestly I wouldn't buy it except if I had no other choice... and even then I'd look for some other non marine paint of better quality. If you think about it, paint is meant to protect surfaces and look good. The R-O may protect ok, but it doesn't look that great or flow well compared to the West house brand. Admittedly the West stuff costs about 2x as much...

For my upcoming hull paint job I'm going to roll and tip Awlgrip or AC2000, or possibly the Sterling LP topcoats. Two part paints, which will harden quicker and be tougher than the one part.

The very bottom of my hull and keel I'll paint with epoxy and a graphite filler for a super tough coating.

Erik

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: The Paint Thread

Remember 2 things about Awlgrip..

1. AC2000 CANNOT be rolled and tipped .. It must be sprayed..

2. LP Alwgrip or sterling is most impossible to repair.

YD.

 

[kilowatts]

Re: The Paint Thread

Hi Guys:
I'm a confirmed Rustoleum guy! In Canada the equivalent product is called Tremclad and I use that for almost everything. For painting parts black I use the regular gloss in a rattle can from the cheapest store available. I've tried the Mercruiser proprietary brand and found Tremclad to be superior. It does need longer to set up between coats but after that no problems.
I painted my bilge with BilgeKote and find it an excellent product.
I painted the bottom of my trailer boat with a the recommended Brightsides product and found no difference between it and Tremclad except that Tremclad is much cheaper. It's due for a re-coat and I'll use roll-on Tremclad this time.
On the non-galvanized parts of my trailer, bolts etc, I use a can of "Cold Galvanize" I bought from a big box store. So far so good!
kilowatts

 

[Greg Mrozinski]

Re: The Paint Thread

I used Interlux Perfection to paint my 17 ' fiberglass runabout. I went with Perfection (two-part) simply because with all the effort to prep I wanted it to last. I followed Interlux's instructions and products exclusively.

Prep - Solvent wash first; once over sanding with 150 grit; filled and faired with Evercoat Formula 27 filler and Evercoat glazing compound as needed; sanded with 220 grit; prime with Interlux Epoxy Prime-kote; sanded with 320 grit; spot faired again as needed; sand with 320 grit; prime again; light final sand with 320 grit.

Paint - I use the roll and roll method using foam rollers, one for paint and one dry roller to finish off with. I don't know if it was just me or what but I couldn't get the roll and tip to work. Wiped down with solvent wash and tack cloth just prior to painting. Mixed paint according to instructions, thinned it with brushing reducer (~10-15%). It was very hot on some of the days I painted so I tried to add a little more working time. Applied first coat of paint starting at a point where you can continue non-stop around the boat and where you can constantly maintain a good wet edge. Let dry over night and sanded with 400 grit. Repeat process again for four thin coats.

Considerations - My boat was difficult to paint because there where few flat surfaces. The hull had a molded in planking effect. There were also channels, grooves and corners all over the place. Painting corners and contours are difficult. The paint, which has the consistency of milk, starts to set-up within 15 minutes. This means no messing with the surface after you dry roll out. NOT FUN! Mistakes, while easily sanded out, still require complete repainting of that section afterwards. Larger smooth hulls would not have been a problem. I used five quarts of paint for my 17' boat. That gave me four thin coats. Pricey so plan accordingly.

Results - The paint finish is very shiny and is definitely going to be durable. I was however a little disappointed with the final finish in that it didn't come out the mirror like look that I hoped. This was my fault as the painter and the complexity of the surfaces I was dealing with. Tipping would have solved most of these issues. Still looks great and I am going to try to lightly work the paint with compound/polishing or something to see if that will help the final appearance.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: The Paint Thread

I used Interlux Perfection to paint my 17 ' fiberglass runabout. I went with Perfection (two-part) simply because with all the effort to prep I wanted it to last. I followed Interlux's instructions and products exclusively.

Prep - Solvent wash first; once over sanding with 150 grit; filled and faired with Evercoat Formula 27 filler and Evercoat glazing compound as needed; sanded with 220 grit; prime with Interlux Epoxy Prime-kote; sanded with 320 grit; spot faired again as needed; sand with 320 grit; prime again; light final sand with 320 grit.

Paint - I use the roll and roll method using foam rollers, one for paint and one dry roller to finish off with. I don't know if it was just me or what but I couldn't get the roll and tip to work. Wiped down with solvent wash and tack cloth just prior to painting. Mixed paint according to instructions, thinned it with brushing reducer (~10-15%). It was very hot on some of the days I painted so I tried to add a little more working time. Applied first coat of paint starting at a point where you can continue non-stop around the boat and where you can constantly maintain a good wet edge. Let dry over night and sanded with 400 grit. Repeat process again for four thin coats.

Considerations - My boat was difficult to paint because there where few flat surfaces. The hull had a molded in planking effect. There were also channels, grooves and corners all over the place. Painting corners and contours are difficult. The paint, which has the consistency of milk, starts to set-up within 15 minutes. This means no messing with the surface after you dry roll out. NOT FUN! Mistakes, while easily sanded out, still require complete repainting of that section afterwards. Larger smooth hulls would not have been a problem. I used five quarts of paint for my 17' boat. That gave me four thin coats. Pricey so plan accordingly.

Results - The paint finish is very shiny and is definitely going to be durable. I was however a little disappointed with the final finish in that it didn't come out the mirror like look that I hoped. This was my fault as the painter and the complexity of the surfaces I was dealing with. Tipping would have solved most of these issues. Still looks great and I am going to try to lightly work the paint with compound/polishing or something to see if that will help the final appearance.

Little side note here for a final finish when rolling and rolling...Dont use a dry roller to flatten nor a wetted one with solvent. Take your first roller and exhaust it use that to flatten..Dry rollers will lift slightly tacked paint and wetted rollers with 2333n dont work either they mess up the existing paint to thinner ..aka it runs or softens

Use two keep them wet just exhuast one and flatten..That will get you the mirrior finish...and if it doesnt well then its Wize Ones fault....Think of it like this..your trying not to disturb the paint youve just laid..your flattening it and it is deilcate..Umm i wouldnt wait 15 mins..maybe 5 at best

 

[Greg Mrozinski]

Re: The Paint Thread

Little side note here for a final finish when rolling and rolling...Dont use a dry roller to flatten nor a wetted one with solvent. Take your first roller and exhaust it use that to flatten..Dry rollers will lift slightly tacked paint and wetted rollers with 2333n dont work either they mess up the existing paint to thinner ..aka it runs or softens

Use two keep them wet just exhuast one and flatten..That will get you the mirrior finish...and if it doesnt well then its Wize Ones fault....Think of it like this..your trying not to disturb the paint youve just laid..your flattening it and it is deilcate..Umm i wouldnt wait 15 mins..maybe 5 at best

Now you tell me!

That is pretty much what I wound up doing. And yes very delicate with the flatting roller. I flattened right after I applied the paint. And then on the next section I also flattened back into the previous sections very lightly and within 5-7 minutes.

It looks much better than maybe I put across in my post. It was a long frustrating job and I am glad it's over.

I have two small areas where the roller overlapped leaving a rough surface. Can this paint be buffed out at all? Or will it just mar the surface and leave it dull? I have not tried it yet. I have a small hatch cover that I painted and I was going to try various things on that knowing that I could just re-coat if things don't work out. Have you tried to compound this paint at all? Any ideas/suggestions?

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: The Paint Thread

Now you tell me!

That is pretty much what I wound up doing. And yes very delicate with the flatting roller. I flattened right after I applied the paint. And then on the next section I also flattened back into the previous sections very lightly and within 5-7 minutes.

It looks much better than maybe I put across in my post. It was a long frustrating job and I am glad it's over.

I have two small areas where the roller overlapped leaving a rough surface. Can this paint be buffed out at all? Or will it just mar the surface and leave it dull? I have not tried it yet. I have a small hatch cover that I painted and I was going to try various things on that knowing that I could just re-coat if things don't work out. Have you tried to compound this paint at all? Any ideas/suggestions?

Yes you can patch perfection..Tape off the area you want to patch..lay the tape at a 45 degree angle........../bad area/......... Now use 3m fine line tape and paint....remove the tape....now tape up the line you made >/< make that small as you can..Take 600 grit and sand the line off gently...take a buffer and buff.

It wont be dead perfect but it will be extremely hard to notice...Do this within 24-36 hours..The paint is still soft and will be eaiser to sand and polish..Remeber that tape line you created is a hair line imperfection and it doesnt take much to remove it...Now After perfection drys hard..Yes it can be buffed but its not to my liking.