The O'Reily Factor show

KaGee

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> The nice thing about your philosophy is that when it doesn't work, and it won't work, it is by definition someone else's fault.<br /><br />Pretty handy.
Hmmmmm.... isn't that the song being sung in NO right now??? By DEMOCRATS??? :confused:
 

LubeDude

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> The nice thing about your philosophy is that when it doesn't work, and it won't work, it is by definition someone else's fault.<br /><br />Pretty handy.
:eek: :eek: Holy Cr*p, this is a strange statement from the party of absolutly no clue as to what to do about any of the countries problems, only to point fingers at the present administration. Show me one, just one of the Dems that has come up with any idea how to fix anything, well, ya might be able to come up with one but I sure havnt seen any. Kerry never had an idea how to fix anything throughout his whole campain. He wasnt running "FOR" anything, he was just running against GW and thats why he got the votes he did, Knowone really liked him. :confused: :confused: <br /><br />Now that right there is some rabbit trail. :p
 

rottenray6402

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

PW your whole premise is off from the beginning. You experiment and see what works and what doesn't? It would seem spending over $5,000,000,000,000.00 (yes, that is trillion) on programs for the poor only to end up with more poor is a failed experiment. Of course I'm not a scientist.... only a self educated farmer that now runs a bank branch. Telling people they are great doesn't build self reliance or self esteem, over coming obstacles builds those qualities.
 

BrettNC

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

O'reilly's right. It has nothing do with ridicule. It is a simple point used to show young people why we get educated and work hard to succeed.<br /><br />It's a simple point. <br /><br />I don't see how any of that is ignorant.
 

K5WAS

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

PW, The story that you told about your family firmly supported everything that O'Reilly was talking about.
 

agitator

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

A good place to start would be to encourage married two parent families again and stop paying a bonus in government funds for illigitimate offspring.
 

JasonJ

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

O'reilly is correct that children need to see what is happening with our poor to help better motivate them to want to succeed. That is only part of the equation though. The reality is working your butt off and getting a degree does not guarantee you anything anymore. There is not an infinite amount of high earning jobs, and even moderate earning jobs are limited. There are counltess amounts of well educated people working grunt jobs because there are countless well educated people. College is great if you are specialized in a field that there is a high demand for. A general degree in whatever only proves you know how to waste a few years delaying the inevitable.<br /><br />What children and young adults need to learn is to decide what they want, and to strive for it, but to also realize they will have to work the grunt jobs to maybe get where they want. We all want our kids to do well, but someone has to pick up the trash. To just tell poor people to get off their arse and get a job is easier said than done. They are faced with the economical fact that most readily available jobs do not pay all of their expenses. Why should they even bother when they know they can get more on welfare? What would you do if you were a single mother who knew she would be placing her kids in less than optimal circumstances by working a menial job when she can just go on the dole? Lets face it. Day care, food, clothes, fuel, housing cannot be paid for with the low wage jobs that are out there. It is easy to blame the poor for being poor. The reality is they are given only bad choices. Yes, in my mind, they should all strive for employment. I am not sticking up for those who choose to stay on welfare, I am just stating facts about what the poor are faced with. <br /><br />I grew up in that situation, where the family went through hard times. My mother made some bad choices, things went bad, but we recovered and pulled out of the misery. Not everyone can do that though. We did it only because the kids grew up and left, leaving only me and my mother. If there would have been more kids, it would have never worked. As far as I am concerned, when it comes to the subject of poverty, you have no opinion unless you have been there. I grow weary of people who have no idea what it is like to go without food *****ing about the lazy poor. If your idea of being poor is only having one car, then shut the f##k up, you don't know squat. If you have ever LIVED out of a car, then you have a basis for comment.<br /><br />In a perfect sunshiny happy world, everybody would work and there would be no poor, but guess what, it will never be like that. You will alway have the rich, and the people who work for the rich. How the hell would anything get done if there wasn't people out there to do the crap jobs? Do you really think society could function when the garbage man makes as much as a lawyer? Get a clue people, society only works when there is poor people.
 

BrettNC

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Working your butt off and getting an education never guaranteed anything at anytime.<br /><br />"Society only works when there are poor people"<br /> How do you define poor? I don't think garbage men, bank tellers, custodians, policemen are poor. Is that what you think?<br /><br />It is very stupid to say the mantra: "Well if you haven't experienced it, then you can't comment". <br /><br />I will comment because I know what it takes to succeed. <br /><br />In the end, it is primarily our decisions that take us to where we end up. <br /><br />Nobody on here said anything about crap jobs or that garbage men are poor. That isn't even true. That isn't even what this post is about. Why are you so threatened by this post?
 

POINTER94

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

You can't comment if you haven't been there. Try going to the local college. The entire faculty is guilty of exactly what you discribed. And they are revered. Your comment makes no sense.
 

Boomyal

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Originally posted by rottenray6402:<br /> PW your whole premise is off from the beginning. You experiment and see what works and what doesn't? It would seem spending over $5,000,000,000,000.00 (yes, that is trillion) on programs for the poor only to end up with more poor is a failed experiment. Of course I'm not a scientist.... only a self educated farmer that now runs a bank branch. Telling people they are great doesn't build self reliance or self esteem, over coming obstacles builds those qualities.
Don't confuse PW with the facts RR. He really doesn't want to hear it. It is contradictory to the philosophy that he feels is going to be his ticket to Heaven. His analogy of his applying of the scientific method in the Socio-political arena was a huge joke.
 

Mark42

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

From PW2:<br /><br />"Yet another ignorant comment by O'Reilly.<br /><br />It's easy to criticize others when you have all the advantages in the world from the start. "<br /><br />PW2, you really need to get the facts before you make "ignorant" statements: <br /><br />1) O'Reilly's statement was not ignorant, it was a statement based on research and fact. The fact that you did not know that makes you ignorant.<br /><br />2) O'Reilly knows about the value of education. He is from very humble background. As a kid, he did not "have all the advantages in the world from the start." He has what he has because he worked for it. The fact that you did not know this also makes you ignorant. <br /><br />Stop posting false information to improve your position in these "discussions".
 

rogerwa

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

I think there is a little truth in both positions here. <br /><br />First off what O'Reilly said is spot on. We did the same thing with smoking. Remember the picture they would show you in school about the old guy with half his lips and gums missing due to chewing tobacco? Same concept.<br /><br />Poor children have a longer ladder to climb without a doubt. It has proven time and time again that this ladder can be climbed. Look at Bill Clinton. No matter what we do, we will never even that ladder. Mostly because it would take the parental involvement and the family support to do so. We cannot buy this.<br /><br />We will always have rich and poor. No matter what we do the cream will rise to the top and the stupid and lazy do just enough to get by. And let's not forget those who always try to exploit the system. Whatever system.<br /><br />We are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Jobs, wealth, material possesions,safty nets, etc were never part of our inalienable rights.<br /><br />I do see some point in part of PWs position. In a lot of cases, especially in the minority community, I see a self defeating cycle between the parents, kids and then is passed along to the next generation. There is a problem in the poor areas and a key is family environment and involvement. We need to do what we can to break the self defeating cycle.
 

jtexas

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> You ask the likes of Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Clarence Thomas (BTW, Uncle Toms all) and they will all tell you that that inspite of segregation (admittedly not good) Blacks were of much stronger character than many today.
Boomyal, don't take this personal, but that is a racist statement that offends me as a human being and embarrasses me as a white man.
 

jtexas

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> PW, the only difference between the haves and the have nots is money and determination. They both have equal opportunity and intellegence.<br />
Ken, I have to disagree with ya there, podna, in my opinion intellegence is frequently a limiting factor in getting & keeping (getting + keeping = have).<br /><br />Regarding your "black pride" comment--is there something about skin color that causes a person to lack ambition? Because otherwise I feel compelled to let ya know that I'm offended my the racist sentiment there.
 

cpj

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

I agree with JasonJ that it makes no sense for someone to work for less than what they could get if they draw a welfare check.If we step back and think about it, that really makes no sense.The very design of the welfare system is creating a society of people who do not want to achieve any more than what the taxpayers will give them.I say taxpayers, because the goverment doesnt have any money of their own.Its MINE AND YOURS!Some might say "well so and so has had it rough and they have 5 kids and they have an addiction of some kind or another so its really not fair for them to have to work".Guess what? The one thing that EVERYONE has <br />in common is the ability to think for themselves and to make their own choices.I understand that their are some things that regardless of your education, background, or whatever, that you will <br />end up making the wrong choices.That is understandable.What is not understandable (or acceptable) is the fact that some of these women <br />have 6 or 7 kids with 6 or 7 fathers.What does it <br />boil down to? CHOICE! You dont just become pregnant if the wind blows from the east.Its a CHOICE that YOU made to not take steps to prevent that pregnancy from occuring.It is a CHOICE that <br />YOU made to start doing drugs.Everyone knows the <br />consequences of their actions.You have sex you can get pregnant.You try cocaine once,you can get addicted or die.Will it ever be perfect with everyone having a million dollars in the bank? NO!<br />But I can take comfort in knowing that what I have<br />I have earned, and not been given.Now, regardless if you believe in God or the bible,consider this passage and see if you agree with it.<br />"But let every man prove his own work,and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone,and not in another.For every man shall bear his own burden.Be not deceived,God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth,that shall he also reap."<br />Makes sense to me.
 

rogerwa

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

I think its also important to remember that we have taken in other minority groups in large numbers with different ethnic backrounds and they come to this country and do what they can and they pull their families together and they become successful. Many of thm don't have any command of the language, yet they come and they prosper.
 

BrettNC

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

And they also don't have nearly as many of the social programs geared toward them either. That says a lot.
 

jtexas

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Originally posted by cpj:<br /> ...Some might say "well so and so has had it rough and they have 5 kids and they have an addiction of some kind or another so its really not fair for them to have to work"...<br />
I agree with you that's ****-poor logic, but would you agree to this: "they have 5 kids and it's not fair for those kids to starve to death."<br /><br />I'm saying, those kids, through no fault of their own, are a burden which their parents placed on us, are we willing to help them (the kids)? I'm not defending the current welfare system, I'm just asking the question. Wish I had the answer.<br /><br />This is just an observation:<br />
Originally posted by cpj:<br /> <br />What is not understandable (or acceptable) is the fact that some of these women have 6 or 7 kids with 6 or 7 fathers...You have sex you can get pregnant.
Flawless logic again. It takes two to tango, then she gets left with the baby.
 

cpj

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

I do agree that it is not fair for the kids to starve to death.The children are the real victims of all of this.I wish that I had the answer also.<br />quote by Jtexas "It takes two to tango,then she gets left with the baby."Again,that goes back to the decision that she made to tango,with the knowledge that she could end up with a fatherless child.Unfair blame on the mother? Maybe,but she is the one that will be left with the burden.A simple but unrealistic approach would be:dont tango with someone you are not married to,and make sure that you have the means to care for the child if you do.All comes back to the moral decay of our nation.Do a study starting at 1900 and ending at 2005.I bet that you would find a corelation between morals(and lack therof)and the number of unwed mothers and a host of other social and economic problems.That is , moral standards go down,social problems go up.
 

Boomyal

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Re: The O'Reily Factor show

Originally posted by jtexas:<br />
Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> You ask the likes of Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Clarence Thomas (BTW, Uncle Toms all) and they will all tell you that that inspite of segregation (admittedly not good) Blacks were of much stronger character than many today.
Boomyal, don't take this personal, but that is a racist statement that offends me as a human being and embarrasses me as a white man.
Hmmm?.... wondering what part of statements accurately attributed to someone else could be offending?
 
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