SUV's out of control

[CalicoKid]

Re: SUV's out of control

I can't see around those SUVs from my car!!! I prefer a car for all personal driving where I'm not towing anything or need a truck bed for large items. My 4x4 truck gets used so seldomly that I keep fuel stabilizer in the tank. <br /> <br />It's a myth that bigger heavier SUVs/trucks are safer than cars. They're more likely to be involved in accidents, they are classified as trucks and have less safety equipment/crash protection, they hurt more people and property than cars, and they hog gas, which is hurting us all in the long run. It's unfortunate that the manufacturers are not telling those soccer mom's and wanna be cowboys the whole truth while marketing these purpose built vehicles to those who have no need for them. And that they trim them out as luxury cars to increase saleability. But GM and Ford have admitted that profits are higher on SUVs than cars, and then there's the market share contest..<br /> <br />I have been in many close calls with my cars that would surely have ended in disaster if I had been driving a truck. Cars are surely more nimble than trucks. I'd rather avoid an accident than try to win it!<br /><br />I drive a 1 ton Ford van during the day for work. It definately takes more skill and distance to be safe in that machine. I'm not so sure all the people hauling their kids around in these trucks have a clue.<br /><br />I have a friend who rolled a Honda CRX end for end after hitting a concrete abutment at 85 mph and walked away. He had been drinking and was not in control of the car. The car was torn to shreds, the engine was in pieces, but the passenger cage was fully intact after landing on it's roof.<br /> <br />Moose, you might have kept her under control if you were driving a Geo! That doesn't look so bad, you didn't even break the back window. Did you sideswipe something with that truck? Glad you're OK.<br /><br />SUVs for family cars? Sporty? To save money by combining two vehicles? PLEEEASE!! Gas, insurance, and maintenance are very expensive on SUVs. Difficult to drive, accident prone and injury causing vehicles are no place for a family.<br /><br />I'm with ya Mayfloat, Manufacturers are just separating fools from their money without warning them of the potential and actual consequenses.<br /><br />JB, everyone here is aware that you're proud of your Mercedes. There are a handful of high quality SUVs out there that shine but they cost a fortune to most of us and don't reflect the qualities of the average dressed up truck that Detroit is pushing.

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: SUV's out of control

Hey I have been driving a 1 ton ford van with an extended roof and several hundred pounds of lift equipment in the back. Yes the difrence in driving is amazing but in the right hands the van can be stopped just like a smaller car. I don't recomend doing it but I have been forced into it more than once by cars who dart out in front of my big beast. I wish every driver had to drive a 1 ton for a week before they could pass the test and then have to repeat it once every few years. I have been driving it out of necessity rather than preference as it was bought for the handicapped lift and my dad's condition which has worsened and yet we still have to make payments on the van or sell it. <br />When I bought the surburban I wanted a truck but the wife's car was acting up while the little ranger is still running strong. We needed something bigger to pull the boat and we also need room for the family because we could not afford to purchase 2 new vehicles. Yes the gas mileage is bad and at that point gas was not as much as it is now in fact it was at least 30 to 40 cents cheaper. We decided the wife who drives twice as far would drive the ranger back and forth to work and I would drive the surburban. It works out better for both of us as she is a lot less experienced with driving big vehicles and I have driven more than my share. The moral is we do save money having one good on gas vehicle and one not so good but can pull the boat and other things. The reason is we only make one car payment rather than two. In the next few years we might then look for a compact car or van because the kids will be getting too big to fit with the wife in the front of the ranger. Untill then the wife loves driving the truck and is thinking about a purple paint job or something while I am comfortable in the surburban. And still we save money because we don't have the car payment.

 

[Moose_Miller]

Re: SUV's out of control

Here in plowboy territory, there's alot of farmers who think they're still in the field when they they hit the road. <br /><br />The JD 4230 that weighs over 12,000 lbs, pulled into traffic on a 2 lane highway where the speed limit is 65 mph. A Gran Prix coming the other direction hit him and the car was an explosion of parts. I had less than a second to decide which vehicle to hit and since I would have broad-sided the Gran Prix in the drivers door, I chose to hit the Deere. I went sideways into the ditch but somewhat maintained control... enough to keep me from rolling, anyways. (Notice the back of my truck is full of Gran Prix parts? The towing company picking up the debris thought it made a good receptacle)<br /><br />My truck broke the real wheel clean off the Tractor (see the lugs of the tractor tire in my boxside). My Truck weighs 7200 lbs, and the shear magnitude of my truck let me be the only one who left this 3 vehicle accident by my own power. The driver of the Gran Prix was air-lifted to Sioux City (I thought she was dead when I looked in her car - stayed in the hospital for 3 months). The farmer was taken by ambulance to the local hospital. <br /><br />The old Chevy gets 14mpg on a good day, but even if it got 2 mpg, she'd still be parked in my garage. Myth or no myth, I know that I'm here today because of that truck. <br /><br />Sorry to disagree, but if I didn't disagree once in awhile, what fun would I be?

 

[Beaux]

Re: SUV's out of control

calico-<br />So your economical way for me to live is to pay for insurance on three vehicles, maintain three vehicles, repair three vehicles, put tires on three vehicles, AND build another addition to my garage to allow me to park all three inside my current residence?(a covenant for my neighborhood requires it) Or could it be that my multi-functional/excessively comfortable/overpriced(I will give you that one )/wife is super happy car is a better fit for me. Considering I only drive 3.5 miles to work each day (wife @5), gas is no concern (get 15-17mph). Last I checked oil changes cost the same for any of the cars...and my insurance is only $6 more a month compared to my little car. HMMMMMMmmmmmmm....maybe that is why they sell all the different model cars for different needs? Also, my car has dual front and dual side air bags and 4 wheel antilock Disc brakes for safety. It is a little insulting to be called a fool in your post, but since I see the limited scope of your comments/knowledge, then I assume you must be simply talking about your specific lifestyle and your "dramatic " accident example. You of course realize that the exact opposite outcome comes about from much less drastic circumstances right?? (ever seen a deer hit by a honda civic- the deer wins ) It amazes me to see you assume that you are so much better informed than all the people who have owned one of these vehicles...just for your info, I researched them/drove them/ and my wife is an insurance claims attorney that has access to all sorts of statistics that are collected on these vehicles. We decided after looking at ALL the factors that it was best for us.... just my .02 though

 

[JB]

Re: SUV's out of control

Hi, Calico.<br /><br />Most of the time I enjoy the myth that my ML costs a ton more than a good, loaded-up pickup.<br /><br />This is not one of those times.<br /><br />Compare stickers between a ML and a loaded up, deluxe F150, Tahoe, Ram or Tundra. I actually saved a few bux.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: SUV's out of control

You all can have them there high priced SUV's. I will just stick with my 'ol TRUCK<br />

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: SUV's out of control

Ya See? The big line of trucks is getting into the SUV market now!<br /><br />Several weeks ago my bosses asked me what I do to prevent accidents. All of them (5) average an accident a year. I haven't been in one since 75. Then that accident could have been prevented if I had gotten some sleep prior to my trip. (Tried to move a bridge embankment with my 72 Cricket @ 75 mph) I walked away in that one.<br /><br />When driving, if everyone constantly paid attention to 100% what they are doing as well as others, there wouldn't be accidents.<br /><br />In Ohio it is required to have motorcycle endorsement on your license. It should be that way with SUV's. To drive big trucks over 26K# you must have a CDL. <br /><br />SUV's are like guns somewhat. Its not the equipment that kills, its the nut behind the wheel. <br /><br />I would like to have a SUV, but there isn't any that I know of that will tow 10,000#. So I have a buddy launch in the spring, and hauls it out in the fall. $40 for gas works for me.<br /><br />Wish this lake effect snow would go away. For November this rediculous! Boat looks so Cold!

 

[DaleT]

Re: SUV's out of control

Calico, not to start a war of words, but take a long look at the stat that says SUV's are involved in more accidents. I'm not positive but I'ld bet that those stats are being gathered from insurance agenecies based on claims filed, meaning full or collision coverage. If this is the case and for the most part SUVs have been selling better than cars recently, then it is only logical that more SUVs would be involved in accidents. In my area it is not very common for someone with an older car to have any optional insurances. That being said it is unlikely a collision involving a car with no extra coverages would be reported to the insurance agencies. A couple other points to think about in regards to that claim; who was "at fault" in an accident? As well as, at least in this area, the people driving the newer SUVs are living further away from their jobs thos increasing the time they are on the road and the likelhood of being involved in an accident. Just my opinion.<br /> Dale

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: SUV's out of control

I didn't mean to get anyone bent out of shape. Just wanted to demonstrate my point of view. I'm not anti-suv either, but I feel like it's a big waste for those people who use them for single occupant commuting. Most of you guys on the other hand are towing boats, hauling gear, etc. and can probably justify owning/driving big vehicles. I respect that. With that said, I will clarify my view, however narrow, further.<br /><br />My truck is old, it has 120K on it and is only insured for liability ($180/yr.) no loan payment. I live 2 blocks from my favorite landing so I don't usually tow the boat too far. I might use the truck to haul woodchips or rocks or building materials or even drive it as a backup if my car is in the shop, so it is quite handy, but i'll only put about 2 or 3 thousand miles a year on it. Change the oil once a year. I park it next to the garage because I don't care if it gets weathered and my neighbors don't mind either. I hardly have to fix anything because I just don't put much wear on it. At 17 mpg, it's a gas hog, to me.<br /><br />My cars are both light, powerful, and fun to drive. My wife drives the VR6 VW GLX, 30mpg, heated leather, all power options, traction control, 4 ch. ABS, dual airbags, no payment, fully insured.<br />I drive a modified Impulse. All the kids in the neighborhood want to race me (but I won't encourage them). 30mpg, 2400lbs and 145 HP @ 6800rpm, Lotus handling, no payment, liability ins. only. No, they don't have 270 horse V8s, but they don't weigh 7000 lbs either (the Impulse has 1 horse for every 16.5 lbs of car). They don't tow boats, haul dirt, or go off road (much), but they get us to work and back safely, comfortably and economically. Both cars have been to Canada with canoes on top, gear in back, dirt roads underneath. The Impulse has been to the Cumberlands with mountain bikes on the roof and a weeks worth of camping gear in the back. The VW took us camping all the way along the S.E. Coast and all over the Northwoods. They do fine. Admitedly, the Impulse SUCKS in the snow, but the VW handles it better than anything I've ever driven. No lie. I have had the Impulse for 7 years/70k miles and have spent around $2000 on tires and mechanical repairs (I saved all my records). Body work is another story. I've had the VW for 6 years/ 90k miles and tires and repairs have cost me around $3200 so far.<br /><br />The Impulse (roughly equivelant to a Civic in weight/power) has been in two deer collisions, both of which were complete surprises and happened at night. #1, head-on left side 35 mph, replaced left front fender, headlight and some trim pieces, straightened out radiator support. Dead deer. <br />#2, 70 mph, the dear ran out in front of me on the interstate and jumped up into the air. Before I could react I hit it with my windshield and it flew over the back of the car. I drove right under it really. A week later the weatherstripping along the top of the windshield pulled off. I don't know what became of that deer but I don't think a deer ever really wins in a collision with a car. I have been able to stop in time to avoid collisions with deer and other cars with each of my cars more times than I can remember. There are a lot of deer/car collisions around here and I have honestly never seen, heard or read of a deer going through a windshield. I think car windshields are so strong and at such an angle that IF the deer were to fly up or jump up like had happened to me, in most cases it would slide right over the top. Sure I could be wrong. I don't think I'd want to hit a JOHN DEERE with my car though .<br /><br />My accident and safety information comes from Consumer Reports, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (of the DOT), American Family auto ins., and anually compiled and published figures from the top 5 national auto insurers. In WI, if an accident results in $500 or more in damage, you are required to report it to the police who in turn report it to the DOT. There are still more cars on the road than anything else and SUVs are still at a higher risk of being involved in accidents in proportion to cars (as well as more costly accidents). SUVs cost more to own/operate mile for mile, without a doubt, any way you look at it, than cars of equal price. To many, its worth it, to me, no way. <br /><br />Again, this is what works for me, I don't think anyone is a fool for driving an SUV, I was only trying to refer to an old saying about a fool and his money being easily separated. I do think that most SUV marketing doesn't have much to do with practicality or value because cool will only get you so far.

 

[Beaux]

Re: SUV's out of control

calico- I see we agree on most things. Thanks for clarifying. Just to play the devils advocate here are a few exact quotes from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Concerning size of cars and fatalities:<br /> <br />"Bigger and heavier vehicles are better: Two important characteristics influencing crash outcome are vehicle size and weight, which are strongly related. The smaller, lighter vehicles in each class generally have higher death rates.<br />" <br />Concerning your "lotus" designed suspension/steering(made with izuzu parts) and your superior speed and handling you point to as a safety issue.... " The vehicles with the highest death rates are all sports cars -- the Chevrolet Camaro, Camaro convertible, and Pontiac Firebird. These three models have very high death rates in single-vehicle crashes, and this has been true model year after model year (see Status Report, Oct. 9, 1996). The single-vehicle death rates, including high rollover rates despite low centers of gravity, reflect both the performance capabilities of the sports cars and the risk-taking characteristics of many of their drivers." <br /><br />SO much for driving around accidents and avoiding them with your small, maneauvarable "sports" cars!!! haha

 

[Beaux]

Re: SUV's out of control

i am not knocking your cars....just keeping the posting going....its fun to here everyones views. BTW- I used to own a civic and I loved it.

 

[DJ]

Re: SUV's out of control

Beaux,<br /><br />Interesting stat's. on the Camaro/Firebird. How does the Mustang compare. Mustang outsells those two nameplates almost three to one.

 

[Beaux]

Re: SUV's out of control

djohns-<br />here is a link to their latest report concerning these facts. What you want is on page 2 in right column. The explanation of what this report means and how it is calculated is on page one. The quick reference below your section on sports cars also helps. Hope this answers everyones questions. crash data

 

[JB]

Re: SUV's out of control

Hmmmm. Beaux, I wouldn't call a Camaro, Firebird or even a Mustang a "sports car", nor would I call them small or maneuverable unless modified for racing.<br /><br />Sports Car purists would call them big, heavy, clumsy, overpowered and underdriven death traps.<br /><br />"Sporty" styling? Yes. Fast? Yes. Nimble? No.<br /><br />Styling issues and numbers of doors and cylinders aside, The small rice burners are closer in maneuverability, braking and general control to a real sports car. Those are the ones that avoid crashes.<br /><br />Just an O.F.'s opinion.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: SUV's out of control

i saw a report on tv a few months ago about this very topic. can't remember all the details, but here's what i do remember. their "experts" basically said you can't determine if an suv or a car are safer, just too many factors involved (type of accident, vehicles involved, conditions, etc). what they did say was a simple collision between an suv and a car will usually end with the car losing. all vehicles have a safety bar that wraps around the vehicle, protecting the occupants. because suv's sit higher with bigger tires and suspensions, their safety bars would impact higher than a car's. the result is this safety frame sending the engine and whatever else it impacts right into the occupants of the car. again, this is simply for collisions. one could also argue that the higher sitting vehicle doesn't handle as well. in my opinion, i'd rather drive a larger, higher sitting vehicle, and just drive slower.

 

[Beaux]

Re: SUV's out of control

JB (you O.F. ), ...not your old cobra mustangs are they???? LOL<br />but it does prove my point. And if you look on page 2 in the left column, almost all the cars that are listed as small cars like the civic, etc have worse than average ratings. Now you are right of course, the 911 porsche has a good rating and the jag... not exactly a izuzu impulse/Geo/civic/ or VW though.......

 

[DJ]

Re: SUV's out of control

JB,<br /><br />Oh contrare. <br /><br />When's the last time you were in a "Stang"?

 

[Scoop]

Re: SUV's out of control

Calico, I am with you on the number of car/deer accidents here. Dane county is the higest with Columbia coming up next. I have heard of deer going through the windsheild and killing people. Does not happen often, but does happen. I get the scoop (all Pun intended) from my wife who works for DOT. <br />Did you see the story November 30th about the woman who was killed in Madison when a pivot pin off a garbage truck when through her windsheild. It hit her in the head and then she crashed into a brick wall. The car was fully engulfed in flames when rescue arrived. Of course the weight of the pin in the concentrated area on the windsheild would be more likely to come through than a deer.

 

[dingbat]

Re: SUV's out of control

All I can say is that there are two types of people. Those that can afford them and drive them and the ones who can't and ***** about those who do. In my case name me one other vehicle that will conformably hold 7 people, pull either a 7500 lb. boat or a tandem axle horse trailer, run the back fields during round up, and the run the beaches on the weekend other than a Burb or a Navigator? What really amazes me is that since I need a vehicle with these capabilities, one suggests that I shouldn’t be able to have heated leathers seats, fold down video monitors for the kids, and all the other amenities this truck has. The fact of the matter is that I don’t need them but if I can afford these comforts why not. I’ve had this truck out in the back field cover with mud to the roof in the afternoon and then clean it up and take the wife out for dinner and show downtown in the evening in comfort. And with the 70 series tires and the tinted windows, the truck looks pretty good in doing so too I might add. No they are not cheap, but it suits my life style and I’m happy with it so shoot me.

 

[12Footer]

Re: SUV's out of control

Amen to that,Dingbat! In leu of Road Rage,boom boxes,hoopties, drunk ,careless. reckless or uninstructed drivers, unsafe equipment, tires that fly appart from the factory, terrorism, gang violence and the rest of life in the USA, I think SUV's regardless of makers or drivers, is a non-issue. Sure, there are drunk gang-bangers that drive SUV's with unsafe equipment...But the SUV itself is a transportation choice. not any more or less a hazzard to transportation.