Starcraft Holiday senior project: Convert to twin Jetski drives

Grandad

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 7, 2011
Messages
1,504
Hi drev. The original floor covering installed by the Starcraft elves on my '72 Holiday was something akin to Nautolex. It lasted 40 years of regular use. I have installed new Nautolex. It has a pebbled grip surface and it appears in my case that the original protected the plywood well enough that I was able to re-use the plywood during my rebuild. I'd love to see some jpeg's of your SolidWorks assembly drawings. I put a few rudimentary drawings of my Holiday together in SolidWorks (see some in my rebuild story in the link in my signature below). - Grandad
 

drev500

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
61
How about we make this THE topic about this project, and when you're ready, just add to it?

I can merge your other 2 topics into this one, that way everybody can see where you started and where you're headed.

Hows that sound?

I can change the title to something along the lines of:

Starcraft senior project: Convert to twin Jetski drives

Does SolidWorks allow you to output images in multiple formats? If so, start a photobucket.com account, upload the pix there and paste the IMG code into your posts.


JB, that would be great! I would really appreciate that and like the title.

SolidWorks allows for exports to PDF's. I will have to wait to get back to campus for this but I will certainly add them to a Photobucket account for those who are interested. I will post a link when done.
 

drev500

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2015
Messages
61
Hi drev. The original floor covering installed by the Starcraft elves on my '72 Holiday was something akin to Nautolex. It lasted 40 years of regular use. I have installed new Nautolex. It has a pebbled grip surface and it appears in my case that the original protected the plywood well enough that I was able to re-use the plywood during my rebuild. I'd love to see some jpeg's of your SolidWorks assembly drawings. I put a few rudimentary drawings of my Holiday together in SolidWorks (see some in my rebuild story in the link in my signature below). - Grandad


I was wondering what was used. Thanks for that. I haven't really explored vinyl as a floor option. How durable is it and how is wet traction? Would the wood need to be encapsulated before laying the vinyl or does the glue and vinyl do the waterproofing? I have wood working experience and a father who knows a lot more but we both do not have much experience in this so it is a new venture. The boat resto. is not part of the project but I gave myself a goal of trying to finish it before the design expo so it will be something nice to look at. That green color doesn't really go along with my schools colors of red and black :)
 

jbcurt00

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Staff member
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Oct 25, 2011
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25,019
JB, that would be great! I would really appreciate that and like the title.

SolidWorks allows for exports to PDF's. I will have to wait to get back to campus for this but I will certainly add them to a Photobucket account for those who are interested. I will post a link when done.

I'll get them merged into this topic after I change the title.

The iboats forum software uploaded will allow PDFs to be uploaded, off hand I don't know if PB does. i know it's an extra step, but any chance you could export to PDF and then convert to a jpeg or similar. That allows direct upload to PB and posting to the forum via nice big pix IN your posts rather then smallish pix that must be 'opened' to be viewed. This is a pix from my PB acct, embedded in my post:
00O0O_7F1ewQJ3g61_600x450_zpse86102df.jpg
 

drev500

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2015
Messages
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I'll get them merged into this topic after I change the title.

The iboats forum software uploaded will allow PDFs to be uploaded, off hand I don't know if PB does. i know it's an extra step, but any chance you could export to PDF and then convert to a jpeg or similar. That allows direct upload to PB and posting to the forum via nice big pix IN your posts rather then smallish pix that must be 'opened' to be viewed. This is a pix from my PB acct, embedded in my post:
00O0O_7F1ewQJ3g61_600x450_zpse86102df.jpg

Converting will be no issue JB. Thanks again helping with the merge and putting up with all my threads! I am excited to be apart this community and hope to learn a lot from you and the other veterans.
 

jbcurt00

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Staff member
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Messages
25,019
No problem at all, happy to do it. Given other duties of being a mod, I'll gladly do this a dozen times a day rather then the other once every great once in a while.

The Starcraft fella's hang out in here w/ the other restorations, like Grandad's great Holiday project, but this is the main place they hang out:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/owners-groups-by-manufacturer/s/starcraft-boats

lots of great info in both places
 

Tnstratofam

Commander
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Aug 18, 2013
Messages
2,679
Hello drev I just found your thread and would like to tag along if you don't mind. You are getting some great input and advice, and I would recommend continuing to post your ideas and questions here as there are a large group of knowledgeable people here on the forum. Most have had many years of trial and error, and or have witnessed first hand the successes and failures of many projects. The people here will help you as much as you are willing to consider their advice. We love to see people take up a challenge, and I'm really interested in how your conversion goes. Good luck.
 

scipper77

Commander
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Sep 30, 2008
Messages
2,106
OK, so I only read the first page and it's a few months later but I have one suggestion for the transom, one engineer to another. Instead of a solid plate of aluminum, consider something akin to corrugated plastic. Not saying use plastic, I'm saying sheet metal honeycomb or something like that. Maybe a bunch of sheetmetal strips with 90 degree bends lengthwise sandwiched in between two sheets.

Sorry if you are already well past this point. I haven't read through the whole thread yet (I will later tonight...gtg at work).
 

drev500

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
61
Here is our drawing thus far of the original boat. The transom and splash well are not drawn in as we will not be utilizing it so we didn't include it. Also, the keel is a little off but we will fix that soon. Tomorrow is Veterans day so no classes as we observe and give thanks for those who have served. A big thank you to any veterans or people who currently serve that are on board here!

We are hoping to gain access to the shop as we are going to start designing motor/pump mounts and a new transom/ engine bay. This semester is coming to close in the next 4 weeks which will allow us lots of time to work on it before Christmas. Tough part is going to find cheap aluminum. Supposedly there is a shop around here that sells drop cuts for scrap price. Once we get some designs, I am going to make a visit and see if they can help out.





The link provided is to the full photo album this far.
 
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drev500

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2015
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Lol, ok well looks like I am having trouble posting pictures from PB. JB, how do I embed the picture? I should know this but it is my first time using it...
 
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GA_Boater

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
49,038
Lol, ok well looks like I am having trouble posting pictures from PB. JB, how do I embed the picture? I should know this but it is my first time using it...

Easiest way to embed pics is to click the IMG code for the pic in PB and paste the code in the message here. Give it a try.
 

drev500

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
61
Hello drev I just found your thread and would like to tag along if you don't mind. You are getting some great input and advice, and I would recommend continuing to post your ideas and questions here as there are a large group of knowledgeable people here on the forum. Most have had many years of trial and error, and or have witnessed first hand the successes and failures of many projects. The people here will help you as much as you are willing to consider their advice. We love to see people take up a challenge, and I'm really interested in how your conversion goes. Good luck.

You and anyone else are welcome aboard. The whole point of this project is to learn. The more people we are able to educate, the better. I value education and wish to learn a lot from many of the seasoned vets on this forum so please join in if you see something not right or have any suggestions! Thanks!


OK, so I only read the first page and it's a few months later but I have one suggestion for the transom, one engineer to another. Instead of a solid plate of aluminum, consider something akin to corrugated plastic. Not saying use plastic, I'm saying sheet metal honeycomb or something like that. Maybe a bunch of sheetmetal strips with 90 degree bends lengthwise sandwiched in between two sheets.

Sorry if you are already well past this point. I haven't read through the whole thread yet (I will later tonight...gtg at work).

Thats a good idea. We are not to that point yet but this will need to be addressed in the coming weeks. We have access to many machines within the shop so this could definitely be a viable solution. Would be much lighter and cheaper. My plan is to incorporate a swim platform on this as the jet drives will be sticking out close to 2ft from the transom.

The transom won't see as much load with the jet drive as it would with an outboard. Jet Drives really only generate linear thrust unlike an outboard that also has lots of torque subjected to it. Although it will need some kind of reinforcement once the wood is removed and your idea would definitely work. Now that we have some drawings, we can start playing around with it. With us being at this point, things are going to start happening quickly. I am hoping to make some procedures to prevent us from getting ahead of ourselves and causing problems. I do not want to half*** this project.
 

jaggededge

Cadet
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
29
Been there... thought about that. Hello drev, and good luck on your idea. I venture out of my lurking cave to offer a couple things for your consideration. My young son went through a similar thought process with a 14 foot v-hull aluminum boat. He used it with a trolling motor for a long time until someone offered him a pair of clapped out jetskis. He too had the idea of using the drives to power his boat. I supported and encouraged his "experimentation" and the fact that he thought "outside the box". I am fairly confident that Edison was not the only person trying to build a light bulb, just the first one who could make it work. (insert snarky teen-aged remark here from my son that "you should know, since you were probably around then") I am no engineer by any means, but I thought the principle was plausable. I will give the same advice to you that I gave to him: research the power to weight ratio, study the hull design of the jetskis and placement of the drive intake ect. in relation to shape and fluid dynamics, then try to mimic the same conditions on the hull of the boat. Problems he encountered were... hull shape and design were favorable ( not quite to say optimal) for a single drive, but not for a twin. A single drive did not meet the needed force to propel the boat anywhere near plane. He finally gave up on the idea ( as young people sometimes do) and moved on to 4-wheel drive trucks interest. I think some young mind will eventually come along and make the idea work with junk parts. (small jet boats are marketed today, so you are not inventing the wheel, but building one from your own design, and with your own parts would be a fun trip)
 

g0nef1sshn

Lieutenant
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
1,291
Dang where was I when this one started? Good luck man and Ill follow as long as your working it! Awesome idea to try and I have no experience what so ever in what your building up but I am excited to see it finished already!
 

Suprathepeg

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
259
I was originally looking at using jet ski power for my current build but after some research found the following drawbacks:
1. Flat bottom boats don't offer a good surface for the intakes to get clean water, as soon as a flat bottom gets up on plane it gets out of the water and you're starving the jets for clean water.
2. Jets ski jets are pretty bad for efficiency, you have the poor fuel economy of a 2 stroke combined with the inefficiencies of a jet. Expect your flat bottom boat to be very expensive to feed on the water. You could probably feed a big block inboard for less $.
3. Jet ski motors are pretty notorious for their short lifespans, expect to rebuild one or both motors within short order if not before you put them into the boat. Jet skis get ridden hard and put away wet. Most manufacturers are pulling a lot of HP out of a small package to begin with.

Usually people take their jet ski out for a rip that lasts less than an hour and they don't really notice the poor efficiency of the drive setup because they don't really use them much. The motors last because they don't really get a lot of hours on them. A fishing/runabout boat generally gets used for hours at at time, you're talking about using two jet ski power trains so it will be like feeding two jet skis at all times, expect a day on the water to cost a few hundred dollars in fuel. That is comparable to running a big block attached to a berkley jet setup, except the big block will get you moving 20-30mph faster for the same fuel. Another limitation you will be stuck with is weight, most skis are considerably lighter than your boat is going to be, this means the impellers in your ski drives are probably not the right pitch and added stress on everything.

Jet drives generally deliver 2/3 of supplied power to the water. Meaning that a well setup prop will convert 33% more power to into thrust than an equally setup jet drive. So with a jet you're throwing away 33% of your potential speed and 33% of your fuel to get 66% of the potential performance of your motor.

As has been said it takes a specific hull design to successfully accommodate a jet ski heart transplant. Without significantly redesigning the hull in your boat you will probably find you have a boat that is pretty slow, terrible on fuel and expensive to maintain. You should really be grafting the bottom portion of the ski hulls into the bottom of your boat, just to feed the drives with water.

If the point of your project is to do something cool then I would build a custom inboard setup using whatever power head you want, coupled to whatever drive you want. If your project is to use a jet for the ability to run in sketchy or shallow water then I would hunt for an old donor boat with rotten floor and a running V8-berkley setup, this will likely be cheaper than the donor jet skis you are gonna buy. If you want to really do something cool that will run in shallow water with the older hull you have then l would build a custom inboard surface drive. I would power it with an older outboard power head that can turn high RPM and fab up the rest, or use an already marinized V6-V8. Locally I have see 2 running merc tower of power motors with pooched gear cases selling for a couple hundred bucks and complete running setups for a couple hundred more, buy the motors and sell the gear cases to pay for your customizing of the power head. Then all you gotta do is build your drive setup, no oil pan means the motors can practically lay on the floor of the boat with the crank shaft maybe a 4-5 inches from the water, couple it to a custom surface drive and you're laughing. Sounds like a lot of work but I bet its less to setup than the jets.
 
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