Spare wheel hub... usefull?

[Bob Sander]

I am sure you will need to get in your last word!

Oh well

 

[jhande]

Agreed but then for a boat trailer what’s the proper interval? That’s all up to your use. As I said if I were a trailer boater with trailer getting wet every time I’d be regreasing every 3 months or so, my point is with easy/super lube you SEE what the grease coming out looks like! So go by that instead of some arbitrary time frame.
In my use I never had to replace the bearings but water dunkings were only 2-4 times a year (salt water though).
Yes I maintained 60s and 70s cars with those bearings and did the work with each brake job. And what I found:
Bearings usually fine; not easy to properly clean without a parts washer then you have to make sure all the solvent evaporated before repacking. Hand packing is not optimal and can introduce dirt/grit. In these regards the super/easy lube is superior. Regular regreasing and checking end play are important. If a problem develops you will be aware of it.

If I repack my bearings at home I usually just hand pack new grease until I see it coming out the other side of the bearing forcing most of the old grease out. There is nothing wrong with hand packing, just don't sit in dirt. I have never introduced dirt or grit. One just has to be conscious of what they're doing.

 

[bruceb58]

This what can happen when you use the LAZ-Lube method. Photos from an RV group I am a member of

 

[jhande]

Agreed

The flaw in your thinking however is that the PM will be performed correctly each time.
If you are human you make mistakes and it doesn't matter how good you are at the task you are performing. That's a simple fact. Maybe you didn't sleep well the night before. Maybe you have something else on your mind.... yadda yadda. And because of that there is a chance you make a mistake when performing PM. Meanwhile the entire objective of PM is to save time and money by identifying and repairing issues before they become issues, NOT possibly causing them. For this reason there has to be a balance between what is good and healthy PM vs what is unhealthy and risky when you start factoring in the possibility of human error, defective replacement parts and other such things.

Agree, human error is always a factor. But if I was to mess up a job on a customers car because I wasn't in a correct state of mind I would've lost my job.

On a jeep jk (front dana 44 axle on the Rubicons), the axle seals are not on the outer ends of the axle tubes. They are at the beginning of the axle tubes on either side of the carrier. In order to do a visual maintenance check on the axle seals, I have to pull the carrier, the unit bearing, slide the axle out of the seal and then CAREFULLY back in again after inspection. Because the seals are so buried in there, I won't know if I have nicked the seal upon reassembly until I'm on the road watching diff oil seep out onto the ground.
Considering all of this..... is it worth doing regular visual inspections on the seals?

We're talking apples and oranges now. Those are sealed hub/bearings which do not get repacked and have an expected life expectancy of 80,000 miles. Most garages will do a visual inspection of the under carriage during a simple oil/filter change. The tech should be looking for any leaks including grease leaking from the hub seals. No need to visually inspect bearings seals frequently, they either hold grease in or they don't.

All I'm trying to convey is keeping wheel bearings packed (no matter how it's done) with non-contaminated grease will help prevent premature failure.

 

[Bob Sander]

This what can happen when you use the LAZ-Lube method. Photos from an RV group I am a member of

View attachment 353875

YUP.... a perfect example of too much PM getting you into trouble and costing you money. Clearly this person didn't understand what PM is about, or how much is too much.

 

[Bob Sander]

Agree, human error is always a factor. But if I was to mess up a job on a customers car because I wasn't in a correct state of mind I would've lost my job.

Well... if you messed up all the time then yes, you should be fired, but most businesses (if smart) have a certain amount of human error already worked into the overhead because nobody is perfect.

We're talking apples and oranges now. Those are sealed hub/bearings which do not get repacked and have an expected life expectancy of 80,000 miles. Most garages will do a visual inspection of the under carriage during a simple oil/filter change. The tech should be looking for any leaks including grease leaking from the hub seals. No need to visually inspect bearings seals frequently, they either hold grease in or they don't.

Well, I wasn't exactly talking about the bearings but rather the axle shaft seals into the diff, but same difference anyway.... we'll use the hubs as example. Taking the hubs off and trying to peer inside a set of sealed units which weren't built to be serviced in the first place, would be expensive and crazy PM, and just asking for trouble which may cost money in the long run and that flies contrary to what PM is all about.

PM is exactly what you said it is... a visual inspection for leaks drips or abnormalities without stripping things down or tearing them up. If you find something obvious or suspect an abnormality... THEN... you start pulling them apart... at which point it is no longer PM but rather 'tear down and overhaul'

Now there is 'teardown and overhaul' based on life expectancy, but that focuses more on the service of ultra expensive equipment or equipment where life is at stake... like a passenger airliner.

All I'm trying to convey is keeping wheel bearings packed (no matter how it's done) with non-contaminated grease will help prevent premature failure.

And I agree completely... but you don't have to open up a bearing to keep it packed, or make sure it is. The regular PM schedule on the new CV joints on the front of my jeep as written by the manufacturer is one squeeze of a grease gun every 6 months, then rotate by hand for feel/sound of smoothness. Opening up goes beyond regular PM and becomes 'teardown and overhaul'

 

[bradb]

YUP.... a perfect example of too much PM getting you into trouble and costing you money. Clearly this person didn't understand what PM is about, or how much is too much.

Been watching this thread. The irony of this post is incredible.

Here is a perfect example of NO maintenance! Clearly this person didn't understand what PM is about!

 

[Bob Sander]

Been watching this thread. The irony of this post is incredible.

Here is a perfect example of NO maintenance! Clearly this person didn't understand what PM is about!

View attachment 353886

Well... just for clarification, that's a cooked bearing which had been opened up on the highway and had ditch water dumped on every few miles for the last 50 or 75. If you open your eyes instead of being as judgmental as you are, you can see a bead of water hanging off the bottom of it and ask why as opposed to jumping to wild and unsubstantiated conclusions.

Had that bearing been as bad as your wild imagination and terribly inaccurate judgement believes, the damage would have been substantially worse.

 

[Lou C]

OK so the pic of the greasy brake backing plate, there's more to that story, if you know how these things work, you know that you pump it with the wheel off the ground, turning the wheel and in a short amount of time (unless its the first time you are greasing it) the grease SHOULD exit the metal cap....if it doesn't something is obviously wrong like a leaking seal on the hub! With disc brakes you'd see this on the back side of the hub area of the rotor but you won't see it with drum brakes for obvious reasons. But anyone who has experience with these systems knows that you must have grease coming OUT.
In 17 years of use with that system, drum brakes too, never had that happen. About every 5 years I installed a new set of backing plates and replaced the seal at the same time. Never had a leaky one. Maybe I'm just lucky lol. Never fried a drum brake, never burnt a bearing, not even a flat tire. Go figure. I change my tires every 5-7 years and use a good brand of Bias Ply trailer tires. Yes not only am I so reactionary that I use drum brakes but I like bias tires. Why? Well since we are stuck buying most trailer tires (with just a few exceptions like the GY Endurance which is on back order now) from regions with less than the best quality control, the rash of tire failures, (especially distructive with steel radials) I feel is due to less than adequate quality control in the construction of steel belted radials. Bias tires do not require the same high quality standards as steel radials. Firestone found that out the hard way, twice. So there you have it. I have gotten 7 years out of 2 sets of Kenda Load Star bias tires without so much as a flat. Using them since 2004, now on my third set of 225/75-15 D load range tires. And when a bias tire fails the nylon cords do not destroy fenders or tear up your gelcoat.

 

[bruceb58]

OK so the pic of the greasy brake backing plate, there's more to that story, if you know how these things work, you know that you pump it with the wheel off the ground, turning the wheel and in a short amount of time (unless its the first time you are greasing it) the grease SHOULD exit the metal cap....if it doesn't something is obviously wrong like a leaking seal on the hub!

That's exactly what he claimed he did. A bunch of people jumped on him thinking he did it incorrectly. He described exactly how he did it.

A few other people chimed in and the same thing happened to them. Even Dexter says to remove the hubs annually. Don't use the LAZ-Lube method and this won't happen.

 

[Bob Sander]

OK so the pic of the greasy brake backing plate, there's more to that story, if you know how these things work, you know that you pump it with the wheel off the ground, turning the wheel and in a short amount of time (unless its the first time you are greasing it) the grease SHOULD exit the metal cap....if it doesn't something is obviously wrong like a leaking seal on the hub! With disc brakes you'd see this on the back side of the hub area of the rotor but you won't see it with drum brakes for obvious reasons. But anyone who has experience with these systems knows that you must have grease coming OUT.
In 17 years of use with that system, drum brakes too, never had that happen.

Meh,
Lack of experience with all the grease is all, not "laz" or lack of trying.
As far as I know, no human has ever popped out of the womb, grabbed a grease gun and knew exactly what to do with it. We all learn through our attempts and failures. No biggie.

 

[bradb]

Well... just for clarification, that's a cooked bearing which had been opened up on the highway and had ditch water dumped on every few miles for the last 50 or 75.

It's a cooked bearing because it had NO maintenance.

Usually once a year in the Spring. Don't take the hub fully off though. Jack it up, give it a visual and a spin... listen for grinding.

Sounds like no maintenance to me.

 

[Lou C]

So he did jack up and spin, but did he see grease come out?
Had to be a bad seal and while of course that can happen, even with standard hubs, I don't know that we can say that the easy/super lube system is more prone to that problem, a failed grease seal can still leak grease onto a drum brake assembly. Maybe we can say that if you are going to use this system, then every so often you should be pulling the hub off to check to see if there is any leakage evidence around the seal. In my case 5 years between backing plate replacements never revealed a leaking seal but I changed them anyway.
The only other thing I can think of is if he greased it on a really cold day, the thick grease could have blown out the seal. Or, maybe some people used a single lip seal whereas it would be better to use a double lip seal.

 

[Bob Sander]

It's a cooked bearing because it had NO maintenance.

So if it had "no maintenance" then it is logical to assume the other 3 on the trailer had "no maintenance" either. How come they didn't blow too?

 

[bruceb58]

So he did jack up and spin, but did he see grease come out?
Had to be a bad seal and while of course that can happen, even with standard hubs, I don't know that we can say that the easy/super lube system is more prone to that problem, a failed grease seal can still leak grease onto a drum brake assembly.

Or you just don't use this flawed procedure.

I bought a used pontoon boat and puled all the hubs. Every hub had corroded inner bearings. The previous owner had been using the LAZ-Lube method. Sorry...don't trust it one bit.

 

[Lou C]

Meh,
Lack of experience with all the grease is all, not "laz" or lack of trying.
As far as I know, no human has ever popped out of the womb, grabbed a grease gun and knew exactly what to do with it. We all learn through our attempts and failures. No biggie.

PS
the same thing happens if you over-grease a tie rod end, or ball joint. GM used to have relief valves on theirs to keep that from happening. With out old '98 Jeep I would just put my fingers on the boot when greasing those parts, as soon as the boot got firm, you stop. With the gun I use it takes a pump and a half to fill those.

 

[bradb]

So if it had "no maintenance" then it is logical to assume the other 3 on the trailer had "no maintenance" either. How come they didn't blow too?

So I am guessing you didn't pull the other 3 to find out?

 

[Lou C]

Or you just don't use this flawed procedure.

I bought a used pontoon boat and puled all the hubs. Every hub had corroded inner bearings. The previous owner had been using the LAZ-Lube method. Sorry...don't trust it one bit.

I'm not doubting your experience Bruce but I never had that problem always used the better Dexter double lip seals though. Maybe that is what makes the difference. If so that would be good for people to know.

 

[bruceb58]

I'm not doubting your experience Bruce but I never had that problem always used the better Dexter double lip seals though. Maybe that is what makes the difference. If so that would be good for people to know.

All the seals that came on my travel trailer with Dexter axles had double lip seals. When I pull my hubs and repack my bearings, I replace them with Timken or National seals that are not made in China like the original dexter bearings and seals are.

On my my travel trailer, first thing i did when I bought it was to replace the chinese bearings and races that it came with.

 

[Bob Sander]

So I am guessing you didn't pull the other 3 to find out?

I asked you a question and you skated around it. Why?
It's a double axle trailer. All four have drum brakes, all 4 get the similar heat, see similar distance, all 4 are the same age. If one blows due to "no maintenance" then how come the other 3 didn't?