Spare wheel hub... usefull?

[Bob Sander]

So..out of curiosity, how often do you pull your hub to inspect bearings?

And I am not talking about just pushing grease thru with the LAZ-lube "feature"...actually taking off the hub.

Usually once a year in the Spring. Don't take the hub fully off though. Jack it up, give it a visual and a spin... listen for grinding.

I usually don't do any long distance towing, though. The boat launch is maybe a kilometer from my cabin. It goes in, in the Spring and comes out in the Fall so the trailer only ever gets used twice a year. The only time any long distance towing is done is when I have to pull it back to the city for maintenance.... which of course is when it blew this last time.

 

[bruceb58]

Usually once a year in the Spring. Don't take the hub fully off though. Jack it up, give it a visual and a spin... listen for grinding.

I usually don't do any long distance towing, though. The boat launch is maybe a kilometer from my cabin. It goes in, in the Spring and comes out in the Fall so the trailer only ever gets used twice a year. The only time any long distance towing is done is when I have to pull it back to the city for maintenance.... which of course is when it blew this last time.

Well.... obviously your maintenance plan needs to change. You need to start pulling the hubs.

 

[Bob Sander]

Well.... obviously your maintenance plan needs to change. You need to start pulling the hubs.

Who is to say I don't accidentally and unknowingly get sand into the bearings next time I pull the hubs for inspection?

Point is, crap happens. Either you are prepared for it when it does, or you are not.

 

[Lou C]

I have had the spindle lube system for about 17 seasons worth and never had trouble with the bearings; every time I greased them fully all the old grease came out looking fine no sign of water/emulsified grease and no roughness while spinning the wheel. I changed the seals twice in that time and even when I took this axle off & replaced it with a new 6,000 axle also built for me by Champion trailers, the original bearings were still good!
And I know what some might think but here’s my logic:
Same with an I/O gimble bearing; turns 100% smooth,grease comes out clean no sign of water…are you pulling that bearing out? I don’t think so I’m running it. Same with my trailer bearings but if I see emulsified grease and/or any sign or roughness then of course they are coming out.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Honestly, I cannot imagine carrying a spare hub for my trailer, any more than I carry spare hubs for my pickup truck. If a trailer is well-maintained, there should be no for spare hubs, spindles, etc. I would bet that 98% of the problems folks have with trailers on the road is due to insufficient/non-existent maintenance.

 

[Lou C]

Agreed and the fact of the matter is that boat trailers esp those used by trailer boaters that go in the water every time you use the boat need frequent maintenance. Very different that someone who keeps a boat in a slip or on a mooring like I do. For me it’s like 2-4 times a year in the salt water that’s very little actually.

 

[bruceb58]

Who is to say I don't accidentally and unknowingly get sand into the bearings next time I pull the hubs for inspection?

Point is, crap happens. Either you are prepared for it when it does, or you are not.

If you are the type of person that might get sand in your hub while inspecting bearings, you should probably hire someone to maintain your trailer.

Personally, I think it's kind of funny when I hear people bragging about minimizing their maintenance. Not something I think I would be bragging about.

 

[bruceb58]

Honestly, I cannot imagine carrying a spare hub for my trailer, any more than I carry spare hubs for my pickup truck. If a trailer is well-maintained, there should be no for spare hubs, spindles, etc. I would bet that 98% of the problems folks have with trailers on the road is due to insufficient/non-existent maintenance.

If you were backing your pickup into water multiple times in a year...you might!

Regular maintenance is the key. Pulling the hubs is the way you do it. Not just shooting grease into the LAZ-Lube zerks.

 

[JASinIL2006]

If you were backing your pickup into water multiple times in a year...you might!

Regular maintenance is the key. Pulling the hubs is the way you do it. Not just shooting grease into the LAZ-Lube zerks.

I do dunk my trailer many times a year and I make a couple 1000+ mile trips most years. Stuff can go bad, but there is no reason most of the time if you’re doing proper maintenance.

 

[bruceb58]

I do dunk my trailer many times a year and I make a couple 1000+ mile trips most years. Stuff can go bad, but there is no reason most of the time if you’re doing proper maintenance.

Glad we agree.

 

[Bob Sander]

If you are the type of person that might get sand in your hub while inspecting bearings, you should probably hire someone to maintain your trailer.

Personally, I think it's kind of funny when I hear people bragging about minimizing their maintenance. Not something I think I would be bragging about.

And I get a laugh out of people who seem to place all their eggs in one basket

You can do all the preventative maintenance in the world and although it MAY minimize the chance of a highway breakdown, It doesn't stop it. At the end of a day, you are either prepared to handle a breakdown on the road... or you are not.

 

[JASinIL2006]

And I get a laugh out of people who seem to place all their eggs in one basket

You can do all the preventative maintenance in the world and although it MAY minimize the chance of a highway breakdown, It doesn't stop it. At the end of a day, you are either prepared to handle a breakdown on the road... or you are not.

Sure, it's a balance between our comfort with being able to handle a problem vs. the hassle of lugging around a bunch of stuff that most likely won't be used. For me, carrying spare trailer tires for a long trip makes sense because the likely hood of a tire failing or hitting road debris is fairly high. Because the likelihood of a properly maintained hub failing is low, I don't see much of a point in carrying one around (not to mention the tools needed to change it.) Same is true for my truck; I don't carry a spare alternator around, even though it could fail (and one of mine has, in the past), because that's an unlikely occurrence.

In the end, a properly maintained trailer should rarely have a bearing/hub/spindle failure from normal use. I'd bet the vast majority (but not all) of trailers seen on the side of the road with smoking hubs had not seen regular maintenance.

 

[Bob Sander]

Sure, it's a balance between our comfort with being able to handle a problem vs. the hassle of lugging around a bunch of stuff that most likely won't be used. For me, carrying spare trailer tires for a long trip makes sense because the likely hood of a tire failing or hitting road debris is fairly high. Because the likelihood of a properly maintained hub failing is low, I don't see much of a point in carrying one around (not to mention the tools needed to change it.) Same is true for my truck; I don't carry a spare alternator around, even though it could fail (and one of mine has, in the past), because that's an unlikely occurrence.

In the end, a properly maintained trailer should rarely have a bearing/hub/spindle failure from normal use. I'd bet the vast majority (but not all) of trailers seen on the side of the road with smoking hubs had not seen regular maintenance.

Well, I think BALANCE is the key word there. Preventative maintenance is a good thing... unless there is too much of it.

------------------------------------------------

Why too much maintenance is just as bad as not enough​

One of the objectives of a good PM or predictive maintenance (PdM) program is to prevent failures by performing routine inspections and preventative repairs. Yet companies report that equipment that has been operating well, when taken offline for PM, can fail soon after return-to-service for a variety of reasons. A classic study done by on the Australian Defense Forces determined that PM activities can induce failures for a variety of reasons:

• Defective replacement parts introducing a mechanism not re-sent before PM.
• Incorrect procedures introducing anomalies that result in failures.
• Effectiveness issues such that maintenance procedure may not complete properly, such as seals seating or gaskets not sealing.
• Damage during maintenance may occur that goes undetected introducing a failure mechanism.
• Extended maintenance activity introducing lack-of-use cases where equipment operates best when in continuous service.
• Human error—i.e. people just executing the wrong activity.

There is also the fact that, particularly after significant rebuild activities, that the classic infant mortality bathtub curve also know as the P-F curve applies once again, so failures may seem to increase as a result of maintenance.
-----------------------------------------------

How Much Maintenance is Enough, and How Much is Too Much?

Maintenance might not have been an issue with the recent fatal Germanwings crash, but when it is, impacts can be disastrous. Here's how to balance under and over maintaining.

blog.lnsresearch.com

This is the point I was trying to make above... with enough PM you may actually be CAUSING the problems. A bit of sand in the bearing when there wasn't before... a castle nut a bit too tight when it was fine before.

Crap happens..... even when you are trying to avoid it.

 

[Lou C]

well one other idea, is to have towing insurance that could cover such an inconvenience, I have this through Boat US, its actually quite reasonable, so if I had a problem like that I could get the boat/trailer flatbedded back home. However, not having a breakdown in the first place is even better. The part I am not exactly agreeing with is this:
on vehicles with permenantly lubed bearings (unit bearings) you check for roughness and play and replace when necessary
on I/O boats with gimble bearings you grease (if grease-able) and look for rusty grease coming out, and also feel for roughness, if you don't see/feel either you are not pulling those gimble bearings out...these can and will get contaminated with water and rust just the same as trailer wheel bearings....
and so, on the easy lube/super lube/spindle lube, you grease till all the old grease comes out, if you see rusty bits or emulsified grease and/or the bearing feels rough, you are replacing the whole works. BUT if you DON'T, why are you then pulling it apart? I think you can feel, and hear bad bearings just as well as you can see the wear, when you take it apart. I did that for 17 years, and at the end they were still fine.

Quite honestly, I would have LOVED to have super lube hubs on the front wheels of my old rear drive cars that I grew up with (VW Beetles, Full size GMs mid size Fords) rather than the messy dirty job of pulling them apart, every 30,000 miles. In fact one time on a mid sized Ford, I could easily hear bearing wear while cornering that you could barely see after taking it apart. The bearings themselves did not show wear, it was the races that had barely visible pits that was causing the pretty obvious noise.
One time we had the bearings done by a local alignment shop, they got one too damn tight and that caused a failure down the road where the wheel nearly came off! In the middle lane of I-95 no less, the disc caliper is the only thing that held it on. After that, I started doing all my own brake and bearing work.
And those old school Beetles, had this horrible adjustment system (pre '66) that used a locking plate and 2 nuts, that was a real pain to get right and the grease we had back then was that horrible smelling yellow fibrous crap, hand packing, etc. What we have today is 150% superior in my opinion.

 

[bruceb58]

Well, I think BALANCE is the key word there. Preventative maintenance is a good thing... unless there is too much of it.

Or in your case, the balance was on the side close to none.

Do you not change the oil regularly in your car because you may accidentally not tighten the oil drain plug tight enough and the oil is going to leak out.?

Your grain of sand comment with packing wheel bearings shows you have ZERO idea about bearing maintenance. You have never packed a bearing before have you?

 

[Bob Sander]

Or in your case, the balance was on the side close to none.

Do you not change the oil regularly in your car because you may accidentally not tighten the oil drain plug tight enough and the oil is going to leak out.?

Your grain of sand comment with packing wheel bearings shows you have ZERO idea about bearing maintenance. You have never packed a bearing before have you?

Wow... pretty aggressive and angry. How come?

I'm a 3rd class power engineer who has spent the last 45 years as a backyard mechanic (as hobby) building cars, trucks, and jeeps, etc. I pull motors on my own, rebuild them on my own, do all of my own tear-downs .. and yes... I also pack bearings.
Indeed couple of my removal of my 350 from my boat for a rebuild and the (almost) finished product:



I hope my credentials meet your approval


However everyone is most certainly entitled to an opinion. You have yours and have made every effort to convey it in no uncertain terms. Now here is mine... one which you will not change by the way:
Your idea of regularly removing hubs for bearing inspections is really kind of a dumb thing to do. You risk unnecessary exposure of the bearings and races and may end up CAUSING issues as a result.

Now if you don't like that opinion then.....
Oh well.

 

[jhande]

Preventive maintenance performed "correctly" is NOT a problem waiting to happen! Not performing regular maintenance is.

Back in the day cars used similar bearings on the front wheels. It was very important to repack the wheel bearings with every brake job.

I've been an auto tech all my life and have performed every type of preventive maintenance, diagnoses, repairs, rebuilds, etc...

Do you change the oil in your rebuilt engines at proper, regular intervals?
If yes, why?
If yes, why can't you repack your bearings at regular intervals?

 

[Lou C]

Agreed but then for a boat trailer what’s the proper interval? That’s all up to your use. As I said if I were a trailer boater with trailer getting wet every time I’d be regreasing every 3 months or so, my point is with easy/super lube you SEE what the grease coming out looks like! So go by that instead of some arbitrary time frame.
In my use I never had to replace the bearings but water dunkings were only 2-4 times a year (salt water though).
Yes I maintained 60s and 70s cars with those bearings and did the work with each brake job. And what I found:
Bearings usually fine; not easy to properly clean without a parts washer then you have to make sure all the solvent evaporated before repacking. Hand packing is not optimal and can introduce dirt/grit. In these regards the super/easy lube is superior. Regular regreasing and checking end play are important. If a problem develops you will be aware of it.

 

[Bob Sander]

Preventive maintenance performed "correctly" is NOT a problem waiting to happen!

Agreed

The flaw in your thinking however is that the PM will be performed correctly each time.
If you are human you make mistakes and it doesn't matter how good you are at the task you are performing. That's a simple fact. Maybe you didn't sleep well the night before. Maybe you have something else on your mind.... yadda yadda. And because of that there is a chance you make a mistake when performing PM. Meanwhile the entire objective of PM is to save time and money by identifying and repairing issues before they become issues, NOT possibly causing them. For this reason there has to be a balance between what is good and healthy PM vs what is unhealthy and risky when you start factoring in the possibility of human error, defective replacement parts and other such things.

I've been an auto tech all my life and have performed every type of preventive maintenance, diagnoses, repairs, rebuilds, etc...

On a jeep jk (front dana 44 axle on the Rubicons), the axle seals are not on the outer ends of the axle tubes. They are at the beginning of the axle tubes on either side of the carrier. In order to do a visual maintenance check on the axle seals, I have to pull the carrier, the unit bearing, slide the axle out of the seal and then CAREFULLY back in again after inspection. Because the seals are so buried in there, I won't know if I have nicked the seal upon reassembly until I'm on the road watching diff oil seep out onto the ground.
Considering all of this..... is it worth doing regular visual inspections on the seals?

 

[bruceb58]

Your idea of regularly removing hubs for bearing inspections is really kind of a dumb thing to do.

LOL...versus never removing the hubs and having to pour water on them so the wheel/tire doesn't catch on fire!

I guess I will take the removing the hub option over pouring the water on a failed bearing/hub option.

I am sure you will need to get in your last word!