Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

[NSBCraig]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

That's the boat! Oh big bummer.

OK HomeCooking,

Unless he is required by law or wanting to run poker runs there is zero reason he has to gamble on insurance. It's not the worst thing he did not to have insurance on any boat or a boat like that. I'd love to know what great powers you have to ground someone's boat:facepalm:

Nor does he need to have a towing agreement. They are nice to have, but the majority of boaters don't. (My friend owns a Sea Tow and sure wishes you all do though). I don't know anybody with AAA for their car either.

Really I don't know anybody on any type boat that size that who puts their phones in water tight bags like people with little boat (me) do. This is pretty normal boating for most and still doesn't mean he did anything wrong.

So yes he beached in a bad spot and it got worse. Nobody hurt, nobody ever put at risk. Not the smartest move, but not the dumbest either.

Oh and 4 days is closer to half a week not a week. Could you do better?

Not really "a long list of very irresponsible acts" huh?

 

[roger56]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

I wish he would sell it and be done with the boat. He has too many toys and not enough money to play with them. I love boating and fishing in a small time way. Not the go fast boats. I hate jet skis and pesonal water crafts that sometime make it impossible for people to enjoy a day on the lake. But that is another subject.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

I will maintain my course.
It is the almost universal opinion here on iboats, and on the water, that every motor boat operator should have liability insurance (and as I said, that's the insurance to which I referred) and almost everyone with liability insurance has some property coverage. His dad said he had no insurance. I base my position that he is irresponsible on that. "there is zero reason he has to gamble on insurance" is not a perspective that many boaters will agree with. Do you have it?

I never said he should have had a towing contract and in fact I often advise against them. After all, he didn't need a contract to call a towing service. Nonetheless I don't think a typical tow company would have attempted that salvage effort in those conditions when the boat first got in trouble. They are not in business to put their own equipment at risk or their lives in danger.

Having been involved with motor boats in the surf, I can tell you that it is a very dangerous and risky situation to be in. Everyone is lucky no one was hurt that day, especially with a boat that large, unless they did nothing but stay on the beach and watch.

The results of his decisions and judgment say it better than I could.

 

[roger56]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

I do have insurance for my two small boats (pontoon and 12ft Fishing boat). I never take a risk I canot afford.
That also goes on the golf course.
Risks that are worth taking do not have the consequences that can cost you a life or cash you do not have.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Home cookin'

Once again, your posts are great, you give us simpletons (said with respect too all!) an easy way to understand things from a legal aspect! So, thank you!

As far as replacing his boat with golf clubs...I'm insulted as I don't want him to give us golfers bad names by swimming after his balls in the water hazard!

Glad the boat is out and the impact was probably minimal.

For the record, I insure my boat specifically in case I was to accidentally (or on purpose?) hit a swimmer/skier/jet skier as the lake we go to is the highest congested in Colorado. I carry full replacement value as things happen!

 

[roger56]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Most golfers know their capablities, some don't. I know when I go on the golf course I will not damange any Personal property. I can relax without my phone. The same goes when I go on the lake with the boats I have. Its to relax get away from the every day hassels.
I love Golf, boating and fishing. In that order.

 

[Part-time]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Wow... what a thread! Sink a boater after his boat sinks! Is that what this forum has become?
Or the insurance Nazis...
And telling him to scrap the boat, when we have guys that can cut a boat in half and put it back together longer and better.
Have you any idea what this guys skills are before you tell him to scrap his boat or to just let the pro's deal with it.
Salt water??? in lake Michigan??? nice to know you read something before putting in your 2 cents.
3 pages of useless wasted bandwidth with no real help on how to get his boat out.
Way to go guys!

 

[bucket of rivets]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

After reading through this whole thread, I'm glad to hear he got the boat out and back home safely.
Around here it would entail a lengthy ordeal with the EPA and marine Police.

As to all boaters should have insurance, they talked about making that mandatory here once. It didn't pass. It probably would eliminate 99% of all boaters on the water due to financial hardship.
I priced insurance for my 17' open aluminum boat at that time, the cheapest I could find for just minimum liability was over $3500 per year here, which is about what I pay for my 10 year old car. They based the insurance on the implied value of your boat, which they deemed my 1964 tinny to be worth $15K. How or why that has anything to do with liability I have no idea, but that's what they told me. My car insurance company don't do boats, I'd have to go elsewhere, which again raised the rate since I didn't have insurance with them for anything else, and every one that insured boats wanted double to insure my car and truck.
The questions they asked other than if I had a CG boaters certificate and how many years experience I have boating, had little to do with boating. They asked what my home was worth, (I rent), they asked how much I make per year, whether I was single or not, they asked for my SS number last, which increased the online rate from $1500 to $3500, and they asked what liability limits I wanted in which case I went with the state minimum for a car, 100/300/100K.
If I had to pay $3500 per year to boat and fish, I'd have give up fishing and boating. I make OK money, I'm not well off, but there's just no money left at the end of the month to pay for any more fees, taxes, or insurance here.

There was some discussion earlier here about a guy in a tinny being covered by his home owners policy, but what if he don't own a home?
There are several lakes here that have HP limits for uninsured boats, but I don't fish there since their mostly places for jet skis and go fast boats.

Most of my boating is in areas where I never see another boat, my biggest concern is getting run into while fishing by a go fast boat blasting down the river not being able to see a small, low boat. I'd love to have insurance, but there's just no money for it. If it were a few hundred per year, I'd not be so against it, but after getting over 12 quotes all over $3500, its just not an option. The way I see it, what would it be if my boat were worth big money? Why on earth does the value of my boat affect what I pay in liability? I could see weight and hp affecting it, but not one insurance company mentioned weight, only two asked about hp, which doesn't seem to affect the rates very much since I also priced insurance for my 14' Starcraft with a 9.8hp motor, and liability only came back at $2785. All policies stated a 75 mile limit from home or home port.
The way I see it my biggest liability would be a spill or recovery, which I would think should be covered under 'liability' since its damage to public property. I'm not likely to run into another boat or do any damage on the water. On the road, my whole rig is covered by my truck policy.

When I lived in PA, boat insurance was cheap, maybe $220 per year, but that was 15 years ago and the homeowners association there required it to dock a boat on the lake full time. From what I'm told that too has increased several fold since back then.

 

[theteacher]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

After reading through this whole thread, I'm glad to hear he got the boat out and back home safely.
Around here it would entail a lengthy ordeal with the EPA and marine Police.

As to all boaters should have insurance, they talked about making that mandatory here once. It didn't pass. It probably would eliminate 99% of all boaters on the water due to financial hardship.
I priced insurance for my 17' open aluminum boat at that time, the cheapest I could find for just minimum liability was over $3500 per year here, which is about what I pay for my 10 year old car. They based the insurance on the implied value of your boat, which they deemed my 1964 tinny to be worth $15K. How or why that has anything to do with liability I have no idea, but that's what they told me. My car insurance company don't do boats, I'd have to go elsewhere, which again raised the rate since I didn't have insurance with them for anything else, and every one that insured boats wanted double to insure my car and truck.
The questions they asked other than if I had a CG boaters certificate and how many years experience I have boating, had little to do with boating. They asked what my home was worth, (I rent), they asked how much I make per year, whether I was single or not, they asked for my SS number last, which increased the online rate from $1500 to $3500, and they asked what liability limits I wanted in which case I went with the state minimum for a car, 100/300/100K.
If I had to pay $3500 per year to boat and fish, I'd have give up fishing and boating. I make OK money, I'm not well off, but there's just no money left at the end of the month to pay for any more fees, taxes, or insurance here.

There was some discussion earlier here about a guy in a tinny being covered by his home owners policy, but what if he don't own a home?
There are several lakes here that have HP limits for uninsured boats, but I don't fish there since their mostly places for jet skis and go fast boats.

Most of my boating is in areas where I never see another boat, my biggest concern is getting run into while fishing by a go fast boat blasting down the river not being able to see a small, low boat. I'd love to have insurance, but there's just no money for it. If it were a few hundred per year, I'd not be so against it, but after getting over 12 quotes all over $3500, its just not an option. The way I see it, what would it be if my boat were worth big money? Why on earth does the value of my boat affect what I pay in liability? I could see weight and hp affecting it, but not one insurance company mentioned weight, only two asked about hp, which doesn't seem to affect the rates very much since I also priced insurance for my 14' Starcraft with a 9.8hp motor, and liability only came back at $2785. All policies stated a 75 mile limit from home or home port.
The way I see it my biggest liability would be a spill or recovery, which I would think should be covered under 'liability' since its damage to public property. I'm not likely to run into another boat or do any damage on the water. On the road, my whole rig is covered by my truck policy.

When I lived in PA, boat insurance was cheap, maybe $220 per year, but that was 15 years ago and the homeowners association there required it to dock a boat on the lake full time. From what I'm told that too has increased several fold since back then.

Where do you live that insurance is so high? I hate to call BS without further details, but this is too hard to believe !!! And to say that "required insurance" would eliminate 99% of boaters, seriously? Seriously ???

 

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Where do you live that insurance is so high? I hate to call BS without further details, but this is too hard to believe !!! And to say that "required insurance" would eliminate 99% of boaters, seriously? Seriously ???

I agree... I am not in favor of mandating that boaters have insurance, but there is no way that such a requirement would eliminate so many boaters. The biggest impact would just be a bunch of "no-insurance" citations issued by on-water authorities and probably an imperceivable drop in the number of boats out on the water.

The price bucket of rivets posted is absolute nonsense; that must be the insurance rate for a 50 foot yacht or something, not a 17 foot tin bowrider. I pay $2XX A YEAR for a brand new boat insured for $31K agreed value.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

sounds like "bucket of rivets" is in the "assigned risk" category, usually due to bad driving or other records, or financial concerns. (" they asked for my SS number last, which increased the online rate from $1500 to $3500"), Or he asked the wrong people the wrong questions. A 1964 17' tinnie worth $15,000? $3,500/year? "insurance for my 14' Starcraft with a 9.8hp motor, and liability only came back at $2785"
Right.

If "around here" is in the continental US, there are other reasons, and we all know that.

By the way, if you don't own a home, you rent; if you rent, you get renter's insurance; you check that policy for liability coverage and if it covers small boats.

Small boats can cause big accidents. A responsible boater has liability insurance. A smart boater also has coverage for those who don't.
But I don't think "mandatory" will solve the problem of uninsured/underinsured boaters, although it would make the new boaters aware--obviously there are boaters out there who aren't clued in.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

guys....I think the insurance banter is off topic

 

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

guys....I think the insurance banter is off topic

The original subject of the sunk boat has run its course; the boat was recovered. Nothing wrong with natural progression of discussion since there is nothing really to add regarding the original issue.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

then it should be a new thread

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Why no Homecookin I don't have insurance on my boat.

I have business liability, but no none on the boat.

Do I know anything about insurance? Well my girlfriend writes the coverage for just about every business in town- marina, air park, rescue helicopter...

First if you don't understand that insurance is gambling your way behind on the subject. In fact we have gambling all over our state because as long as insurance is sold in the state they cannot outlaw gambling because they are legally the same. Which is why I live down the street from a gambling house and with three blocks from another. Proven recently in court by a lawsuit against the state for illegally trying to shut them down.

Liability insurance that you think he needs would do zero for him right now.

If you feel that all boaters should have insurance then you should lobby your local legislator because wether or not you and some others on here (no not anywhere near close to the universal opinion on here, although I see again you believe your opinion is shared by all) the facts are that the greater part of the country doesn't agree with you or it would be required. Everybody agrees on cars, but no they do not on boats or motorcycles.


Yes Sea Tow would have recovered his boat that day. It's what they do. You got a good laugh out of that one:facepalm:

So your long list of acts has been summed up to he doesn't have insurance he doesn't need? Short list really.

And I'm still dying to know your great powers to ground someone's boat. You grounding me now?

 

[lncoop]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

And I'm still dying to know your great powers to ground someone's boat. You grounding me now?

Craig, if Florida doesn't require liability insurance on boats so be it. That is their choice, as it is your choice not to maintain it; and yes, spending a C note a year on liability coverage that one will likely never need (not sure where the $3500 figure came from as that is ludicrous) is a form of gambling. However, assuming you'll never be involved in a boating accident that will drain you dry because you have to cover the damages out of your own pocket, provided you're even able to do so, is gambling as well. Surer bet? Probably, but it's still gambling. Again, that's your choice, but it's disingenuous to call one gambling but not the other. As to grounding a boater for not maintaining required liability coverage; if I knew someone in Arkansas was deliberately boating without required liability coverage (only required for over fifty horsepower) I would alert the authorities as soon as I could. If that causes you to see me as a wannabe authoritarian I can live with that.

 

[lkbum]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Know-it-all
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Know it all)
A know-it-all or know-all is a person who obnoxiously displays that he/she has an expansive comprehension of a topic and/or situation when in reality, his/her comprehension is inaccurate or limited. This display may or may not be directly expressed.[1][2]

See Also: Any post by NSBCraig on Iboats.com

The German word Besserwisser is also used in some languages, literally meaning "better knowing [person]".

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Dilbert had a great line in it today; "I like how you punctuate ignorance with certainty."

 

[laserbrn]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

Inusrance is only gambling if you can afford to pay for any and all damages you cause on your own. Otherwise, it's just responsible. If I make a mistake and I damage another boat or, the more likely scenario, someone gets injured or killed on my boat whether its because of my actions or not, I would at the very least like to take responsibility and pay for any damages or costs. If you choose not to carry insurance you don't simply choose not to gamble, you choose not to own up your responsibility in the event of an accident.

I understand the perspective that it's gambling, it's just wildly flawed if you can't otherwise have the $$ to pony up when things go sideways and if you can't afford the insurance or it's a burden then you're likely someone who needs it most. Not to CYA, but to be a responsible, decent boater who isn't only looking out for their self-interest.

 

[Levinz11]

Re: Sons Cigar Boat Goes Down

I just want to see some pics of the boat now. :facepalm: