Run as is?

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Run as is?

Are there good mechs out there, yes. Are there hacks out there that are only interested in the dollar, yes. It has been my experience, through knowledge of others as well as personal experience, that good mechs that actually care about what they are doing are the exception, not the norm. C'mon now, don't get all twitchy. If you are not a hack, then my comments are not relevant. Todays crop of mechs have little mechanical intuition. They just read through a troublshooting guide, and swap parts around, barely fixing the problem. Just look at all the marine mechs that won't touch the older engines. Without a port to plug a machine in that does the job for them, they are lost. They hide behind the statement that it is too old for them to work on, that it isn't worth it. They don't want to admit that they are glorified parts changers, not true mechanics. I'm sorry, but a real mechanic will take care of the customer, not turn them away or quote them outrageous prices so that they don't have to actually think about what the problem is. If you take offense to what I have said, then you must be, or at one time have behaved in such a slipshod lazy manner. Don't even give me that "I won't make enough money on the old stuff" crap. What I see when I hear such garbage is that you won't be able to swap a sensor and then charge the customer for three shop hours. You might have to actually spend three shop hours fixing something, and that will get in the way of pushing a truck load of service though the door. I am not stupid, I know people in the field. The clever witty comments on how they can do 20 shop hours of work in an eight hour day makes me ill, and the customer is none the wiser. <br /><br />Maybe I am being too harsh, but as far as I am concerned, if you claim to be skilled at a profession, you better be skilled at it. A lot of them are just money taking parts changers, thats the fact. I had both my alternator belts break on my diesel work truck a few weeks back. I was out in the boonies and had to stop at the only shop that was there. Since I lacked the tools to do it myself, I was forced to let them do it. After watching two mechs stand there scratching their heads at the seemingly alien world of belt changing on an Isuzu cab over 2 ton truck, I had to give them a class on how to change the belts. I then had to pay them for the service. Nope, I stand by my beliefs. If you are a good mech, God bless, you. If you are a hack, shame on you, go get a job at Wal-mart as a stock boy where you belong....
 

lmoreau

Seaman
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
59
Re: Run as is?

Sometimes we need parts changers, though...like myself, I am too inclined to force something or break something so if it requires re-ringing, or re-sealing, I'm gonna pay someone to do it, rather than me tear into it and make it an even bigger mess.<br /><br />I will however, try and troubleshoot things and just get shop labor to fix it.
 

rabidfish

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Messages
788
Re: Run as is?

If you really want a new engine, then dont, I repeat "DO NOT" waste anymore money on the old one. It's not a question of whether it can be repaired. I am a dealer for Mercury and Johnrude. I have seen this scenario so many times I could narrate the movie. The dealership was absolutley correct. The switch boxes MUST be replaced in pairs. You just found out why! Typically, a failed switchbox will take out the mate because of the bias circuit (white wire/black stripe)<br /><br />Also, if you have low compression on a cylinder, there is only one fix (overhaul) anything less is a patch & to be considered amatuer repair. Not to mention unreliable. Do you truly value your play time that little? <br /><br />It's not that a dealership isnt interested in your repair, it's just that most real dealers are so busy that they dont have time. Remember, they have a thousand other customers that also want to boat next weekend. This is where a small independant shop can make up the difference. The usually have the ability to work in jobs like this.<br /><br />Good Luck!
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Run as is?

I wish we had a small independant shop where I live. The local shops that are here simply will not have anything to do with the older stuff, which is unfortunate. They miss out on a lot of business because for every new-ish boat there is at least thirty old boats. I won't lie, I have considered getting into the business. There is a need for someone who will repair the old stuff as well as provide structural hull repair. I am hobbled by a lack of space though, and the fear that I may be labelled a hack. :)
 

DHPMARINE

Captain
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
3,688
Re: Run as is?

JasonJ,<br />You've made many good points,and I am thick-headed enough to forget there are rip off artists out there.I'm so busy doing legit work,that when a customer tells me he thinks I ripped him off,I tell him he needs a repair facility he can trust.<br />And try to explain why his bill is such.<br /><br />I sleep very well nights,(except when I wake up at two AM with a solution that nagged me all day)<br /><br />Maybe the clue to finding a good repair place is to inspect the place.I have seen a few places(why would I go looking)that have large showrooms,and spotless small repair areas,with little activity.<br /><br />We suffer from display area,but you should see the repair/parts manuals.Probably 30 ft long if put one a single shelf.And they are obviously well read!Plus microfiche and on line services.<br /><br />I'm not trying to drum up business for me,but I am really trying to find a way for the guys calling us 'hacks' to locate the good guys who aren't.<br />sorry for 'ragging ' this long,sarge.<br /><br />DHP
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Run as is?

Its cool DHP. You are right though, a clean, well organized facility does indicate the level of care you will get. We have all seen the nasty dirty shops with six half assembled motors inside and piles of old non running motors out back. I always wonder where all those came from. A shop with little or no activity may not be a good thing, either they never get any business or they are so good that they get the job done efficiently. Its hard to win, thats why I do my own work. That way when I screw up I can just yell at myself....
 

Clams Canino

Commander
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,179
Re: Run as is?

It's like the small independant shops vs dealerships in cars. Dealerships are great for warrantee work, then move on to someone who actuially wants to see your motor again. <br /><br />Niche shops do better IF they stay in the niche.<br /><br />Do they have access to a network of good used parts much like the auto shops do?<br />Do they have access to quality aftermarket new parts?<br />Can they diagnose your trouble without looking at the manual 3 times?<br />Do they know/have a good workaround for potential NLA issues?<br /><br />Can they do all the above without making it seem like "the exception"? <br /><br />I see the problems in CP's origional post as just "one more inline with a popped piston" and a switchbox issue" - no more than a couple days work and enough access to aftermarket / used parts to get the thing back to 95-98% without breaking the bank.<br /><br />-W
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Run as is?

How has your new business been doing Clams? You had recenly fired up your facility, is it going the way you expected?
 

CaptainPuget

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
137
Re: Run as is?

Here’s the update:<br /><br />New switch boxes are in, engine has been decarbed, everyday while I was waiting for the parts I sprayed a shot of deep crank into #5, let it sit for awhile then flushed it with WD-40. I now get about 90psi out of #5 with the engine warm. I put on a spare prop with 2” less pitch so the engine doesn’t have to work so hard and mixed it up some 40:1 fuel. I took the boat out for a spin and she ran just fine. Still a bit hard to start first time but after that no problems. Plenty of power, with the lower pitch prop I have go easy on the starts or all the gear ends up in the back of the boat. She cruises nicely at 4500rpm. :D
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Run as is?

Sounds great. I bet if you do a full blown decarb things will get even better. Glad to hear that Merc will live to run another day....
 

Clams Canino

Commander
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,179
Re: Run as is?

ya - decarb #5 over and over a bit... you might win the luckshot. #5 hurt is a better bet than #3 hurt. You have the pick of the inline litter there, retire it only if it goes down screaming.<br /><br />Jason... everything is going according to "plan" as that evolves. I have yet to tri-fold the lake. The existing Ebay thing (and the work it generates) continues to sustain the primary operation. Local work dribbles in... <br /><br />I'm back in NH for a week, having made a sweep up the east coast "harvesting clams" bought over the summer. I hope to find room in the van for my Mark 58 project motor this trip.<br /><br />-W
 

CaptainPuget

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
137
Re: Run as is?

This isn’t going to work. It still runs OK but there’s a funny sound in the power head and it smokes a lot. Leaves an oil sheen behind the boat at low speeds. I can’t in good conscience run such a dirty engine. Time to find a lifting ring and retire the old girl.
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Run as is?

Soooo (hear the flapping of the leathery wings), if you are retiring it, Maybe we could strike a deal or something? I really would like the power trim assembly. Let me know....
 

Clams Canino

Commander
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,179
Re: Run as is?

Jason, I find your lack of faith disturbing.... :D <br /><br />Capt Puget, since we already have one "solicitation" on the board regarding the carcass. I'll stick my neck out and highly suggest you contact me before retiring that which is no longer replaceable in this lifetime. <br /><br />-W
 

CaptainPuget

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
137
Re: Run as is?

There is quite a bit of interest in the carcass. Many folks covet the tilt/trim unit. I’ve removed the engine from the boat (no small task) and she now sits in my garage work shop. I have a 70hp Johnson that I’ve considered bolting on in her place but ... you know, it’s only 70hp.<br /><br />I can get a 2005 Merc 115hp 2 stroke goes for $7,000 installed<br />Or there’s a pre owned 2004 merc 115hp 4 stroke on this site for $6,000 plus what ever shipping costs.<br /><br />Or I can fix this one. She appears to be in pretty good shape except for some corrosion on the coveted trim motor.<br /><br />So Clams, the fix is “to take it apart / clean or replace that piston and clean and re-ring the other five”. Easier said than done I’m sure. Where do I start?
 

Clams Canino

Commander
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,179
Re: Run as is?

I don't want the carcass....<br /><br />I'd rather fix it than live with a 2+2 115, but that's just me. By the time winter is over it can easily be done.<br /><br />It's easier if it's hanging on the transom - or a sturdy 2x8. It needs to be upright.<br /><br />You need the *manual* and a digital camera to get the wires and hoses routed back the same way.<br /><br />Use zip-lock bags with a note inside to bag and label ALL the parts / nuts / bolts.<br /><br />If you mark the flywheel AND hub you can undo the 8 bolts to get it off (since you don't have a puller - yet) <br /><br />Disconnect the fuel line into the pump. <br /><br />Disconenect the motor internal harness wires from the solenoid and and other cowl parts you can remove. The internal harness can stay attached to the ignition plate and stator combo.<br /><br />Take off the top and rear of the inner cowl support - leave the front.<br /><br />Disconnect the throttle and shift cables. Leave the shift linkage disconnected so that rail comes up with the head.<br /><br />Disconenct the trigger. The stator and ignition plate can come off still hooked together - with the internal harness.<br /><br />Disconnect the pee hose and remove all 6 plugs.<br /><br />Remove the starter.<br /><br />You'll need a friend or a rigging to keep the belly pan with front cowl support attached level and stable during the remove/replace.<br /><br />Remove the lower collar (4 screws) and then the 8 nuts that hold the powerhead down.<br /><br />You might have to rock it back and forth / side to side a little to break the base gasket but 1 to 2 people can lift it straight up and off.<br /><br />Set it on the bench plug side down / carbs up.<br /><br />The above takes me an hour - you an afternoon.<br /><br />When you get that far... let us know. :) <br /><br />Do not remove any water jacket or exhaust covers.<br /><br />-W
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Run as is?

As treacherous as I am about carcasses, I would prefer you fixed it and ran it. Keeping an inline in service is always a good thing. To be honest, if I was able to get my skeevy mits on that carcass, I would probably fix it and run it, and maybe sell the 125. I love my 125, but it is my impression that the later 115 is at least equal but actually a bit better performance wise than the 69 125. I could be wrong though....
 

CaptainPuget

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
137
Re: Run as is?

That’s done. Your instructions are much better than the manual’s. Pretty easy actually; it’s a well engineered unit. 2 ½ hours and I only broke one bolt. The powerhead is on the bench top plug side down, carbs up.<br /><br />I’m indeed fortunate to have found the haunt of those that appreciate this classic engine.
 

Clams Canino

Commander
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,179
Re: Run as is?

What bolt?<br /><br />OK... now ship me the powerhead and a $500 bill. :D <br /><br />No? OK do this instead:<br /><br />Leave the carbs on.<br />Take some more pics of the lines and hoses.<br /><br />Pull the fuel pump and throttle rail - bag everything as you go.<br /><br />Remove the trigger if you havn't.<br /><br />Remove the enricher valve.<br /><br />Remove the 4 upper end cap bolts and the three lower end cap bolts - bag them. Leave the caps on there.<br /><br />Bend down the lockwasher tabs and LOOSTEN (with a wrench on the side) the 2 main bearing bolts that are located directly under the 2 carb connector plastics. You can't remove them, but they will come up enough to be totally free of the bearings.<br /><br />There are 26 bolts that sew the block together. 2 of them are upside down at the flywheel end. I believe there is another one upside down on the starter side. Make a piece of cardboard with 13 holes on a side and remove the 26 bolts and use the cardboard to keep them in the right place - only 3-4 are different - but why risk it.<br /><br />One of the 26 bolts - on the center of the intake side, is kinda blocked. You'll need to drop a small 1/2" socket onto it, then put the extension in and then loosten it enough to get it by hand. It goes back together the same way, start it by hand and then put the socket onto it.<br /><br />Once you have all 26 bolts out and those two big ones loosteneed, you can pry off the intake cover in the slots provided - the end caps stay on the crank.<br /><br />Set the intake aside carbs up, cover it - you won't need it for a few weeks. Leave the 2 cork gaskets in the intake cover.<br /><br />Now... use a rubber hammer and drive out the bottom end cap. you can't drive out the top one -The flywheel hub is there.<br /><br />Use a rubber coated plier handle and pry up under the lower part of the crankshaft till it "breaks free" a bit. Now use the rubber hammer on the top and get it top pop free, you can't pry that because the end-cap is still there.<br /><br />When both ends are free - you can grab both ends of the crank and PICK THE ENTIRE RECIPROCATING ASSEMBLY OUT AS A UNIT.<br /><br />Set the block aside and put the reciprocating unit on the bench. Leave the covers on the block.<br /><br />Use carb cleaner and clean a portion of the lower skirt of all 6 pistons. Label them 1-6 (from the top down) using a permanant marker. Do both sides to be surer a mark stays.<br /><br />Now make up 6 baggies labeled 1-6.<br /><br />Disconnect each piston from the crank and put the rod bolts, 16 needles, rod endcap, and 2 cages in the baggie that goes with the piston - the parts cannot be interchanged. I mark the top ends of the needle cages with a marker so they go same side up - wipe them 1st. In fact wipe all the little parts clean with a lint free rag.<br /><br />If you have the "new style rods" (you should) - you'll need a 1/4" 12 point deep socket to get the bolts out - Sears has it with a 1/4 drive and then get the 3/8 adapter.<br /><br />When you have the 6 pistons removed put all 6 baggies in a little box.<br /><br />Take the crankshaft to your FLMD and get them to pull the flywheel hub with the Merc puller - 5 minute job. Then remove the upper end cap. <br /><br />Reassemble the flywheel according to your marks and use locktite red on the bolts - torque to 190 inch pounds, it's easier if the wrench handle is crossing the centerline of the wheel when torquing. Make sure everything is together corectly before you tighten the 8 bolts in stages.<br /><br />THEN it's time to assess damage and order the parts. We'll do that tomorrow (or whenever you're ready) Your parts will cost you under $200 using aftermarket sources. <br /><br />In the mean time, get a tube of Yammabond 4, and a little tube of red and blue locktite. Also get a tube of the black automotive silicone seal and a can of Bel-Ray assembly lube.<br /><br />Don't jump ahead - :D <br /><br />If you don't have a torque wrench - borrow one.<br /><br />-W
 
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