Run as is?

[CaptainPuget]

I took my 1985 115hp merc into repair shop for diagnosis. It is hard to start first thing in the morning but after that it starts OK and after starting it runs just fine. The diagnosis came in with low compression in one cylinder (120 in all but #5 which is 60) and no spark to #4. The bottom line is $3500 to rebuild the powerhead and replace both switch packs. The shop says they are always replaced in pairs. <br /><br />I’m not interested in sinking $3500 into a 1985 engine; I’d rather re-power. But the engine does run fine once it starts. I’m thinking I’ll just run it as is until it doesn’t work any more, maybe just replace the one switch box although how can it run 40mph @ 5600rpm on 5 cylinders? <br /><br />Any thoughts or advice?

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Run as is?

Originally posted by CaptainPuget:<br /> how can it run 40mph @ 5600rpm on 5 cylinders? <br /><br />Any thoughts or advice?

I do not think it can if its propped right. I mean, low compression in one, and no fire in another, someone is blowing smoke, and you do not have to replace the switch boxes in pairs either. Have you actually done a comp test yourself?<br /><br />I would do a really good decarb, maybe twice with Seafoam and see if it helps the compression any. It wont hurt to run it as is.

 

[KCLOST]

Re: Run as is?

Actually, they do recommend that you replace both switchboxes of the old style (non-cdi/rapair) powerpacks... The newer cdi/rapair switchboxes do not need to be replaced in pairs..<br /><br />But I have heard of only replacing one and people having success...<br /><br />Switch the boxes (all the wires from one to the other). If the no spark condition stays at the same cylinder (you don't have a switchbox problem) Could be a coil...

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Run as is?

Being the vulture I am, if you ever do repower, I may be interested in that motor. If the price was right, that is. I also recommend a good decarb, that may bring that cylinder up to speed. How does it idle? If you have one cylinder not firing, and another low on compression, it should shimmy a bit, although inline 6's are pretty good at hiding problems of this nature. Has your rpms and speed always been as you state, or has it seemed like it has lost a bit of oomph? How long have you had the boat? It is possible it has always been lke this and the previous owner propped it to run like it is instead of fixing it. In the end, you could run it like it is, but with two cylinders not keeping up, your wasting fuel, and thats getting a bit spendy now-a-days...Good luck.

 

[mrdimuzio]

Re: Run as is?

2 reasons for no compression. bad rings or bad valves. the other scenario is the "mechanic" did not get the tester seated all the way into the spark plug hole. i would check continuity in the spark plug wire that is missing 1st, could be a broken wire. good luck

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: Run as is?

Thanks for all the great info and advice. I picked up the boat from the shop yesterday afternoon and took it home to have a look for myself. It would not start at all and when I pulled the cover and I noticed that every wire boot on the switchboxes and coils was peeled back and the spark plugs were not tight. They had been screwed in about halfway and the wires put back on. I called the shop to find out why they would turn an engine over to a customer in such a condition they told me they assumed I would never be using this engine again since I elected not to proceed with the $3500 fix. After an interesting conversation with the shop I went on to check the spark and I find no spark to #2 & #4, and confirmed that the center output of both switchboxes is toast. Bottom line, I dropped off an engine that was a little hard to start in the mornings but otherwise worked fine and I got back an inoperative engine. And I paid them for this “service”.<br /><br />Anyway, back to the engine, I’ll check the compression myself this afternoon as I have zero confidence in anything these “mechanics” told me.

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: Run as is?

PS – A little history on the engine to answer some of the questions. I bought this a little over a year ago and I checked the compression then, all good 115 to 125. I’ve put about 110 hours on it and it has always ran great at high speed, always a bit of a dog to start. About 2 months ago I had a bad gas problem and an idle problem which I got past. Other than that it has worked fine. I have it on a 17’ foot Arima and it is (was) the fastest 17’ Arima that I know of.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Run as is?

God I hate to take my equipment anywhere. I seem to allways get took. Well, "NOW" you have bad switchboxes wheather you did in the first place or not, who is to say they didnt switch on you As for that matter who is to say the wiring is even hooked up right, after all, they didnt think you would be using the engine again. Id be livid!!!

 

[gss036]

Re: Run as is?

I think I would have a talk with the owner of the shop and tell him/her that you are bringing the boat back and you want the boat/engine back (in at least) the shape (running) you brought it in them. If they toasted your boxes I would think it would be thier responsibilty to replace them. <br />I had a local shop toast my tach and replaced it w/o any questions and told me what happened.<br />Washibgton has a pretty good small claims court and I think it is only $20.00 to file a claim. If your are lucky enough to get a judge or comminsioner who knows anything about outboards, they surely would rule in your favor.<br />I am w/LubDude on this one.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Run as is?

They need to return that motor to the condition it was when brought to them. Maybe you need to include the words "better business bureau" in your next conversation. This is exactly why I don't take my gear to shops. The mechanics are hacks that could give a rip about anything but the bottom line. I hope you get it figured out. Good luck...

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Run as is?

JasonJ,<br /> I had an idea about this problem,not too pertinent,so I'll respond to your "hack" remark.<br /> Why do you feel this way about shops?<br /><br />DHP

 

[fatpratt1996]

Re: Run as is?

uuuhhhhh--ooohhhhhh

 

[PNW Thom]

Re: Run as is?

Solicitations to buy, sell, trade are not allowed on the message boards.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Run as is?

CP Puget: You can find good used switchboxes on Ebay. Get the electrical fixed and then try some Mercury Power Tune to try to free up stuck rings.<br /><br />If you can get the electrics back, run a 40/1 oil mix and you can prolly live with the bad hole for a while.<br /><br />And $3500 to repair that powerhead is insane. They price it that high to sell new outboards. Buy me a round trip ticket and I could have it fixed for $150 in parts and a long days work. <br /><br /> <br /><br />-W

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Run as is?

Originally posted by DHPMARINE:<br /> JasonJ,<br /> I had an idea about this problem,not too pertinent,so I'll respond to your "hack" remark.<br /> Why do you feel this way about shops?<br />DHP

Let's separate "shops" from "dealerships" OK?<br /><br />Most **dealerships** I've seen are primarily interested in selling and servicing new outboards. They have neither the means nor the presumption (nor the knowledge base) to repair the classic inlines. As in the case of the poor feller in Washington, they are killing off the species with inflated prices and disinterested service.<br /><br />Some private "shops" are actually intersted in keeping them on the water - and have the resources to do it economicly. <br /><br /><br />-W

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: Run as is?

Yep, #5 came in at 65psi, came up to 70 with a little oil in there. Of course that’s cold; I don’t know what it would be warmed up. I ordered two # 332-7778A from surplus unlimited, hopefully that will put it back to where it was before I took this in. I wrote a letter to the shop owner explaining the situation and requesting they reimburse me the $239.74 for the switchboxes. I don’t expect I’ll ever see a dime. Right now I agree with JasonJ, it’s hard to trust any shop after an experience or two like this. I could understand that they made a mistake if they acknowledged it and made it right. “Sorry, I grounded the wrong contact and fried your switchbox but we’ll replace it” would probably have made me a customer for life. Mechanics should understand that when they treat a customer like this they do a disservice to not only their business but the entire repair industry.<br /><br />So, I’ll replace the switchboxes, decarb, put on a lower pitch prop, keep it under 4500rpm, and see how long she goes. It’s been a good engine but it has also been pumping salt water for 20 years and I can’t justify spending too much on it. <br /><br />PS – what’s an ADI?

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Run as is?

OK - keep us posted. ADI is what you have - as opposed to distributor CDI.<br /><br />-W

 

[mrdimuzio]

Re: Run as is?

70 psi with a shot of oil sounds like rings are tired. might try e-bay again for a rebuilders kit. they usually come with slightly over rings, .005" or so, on the diameter. to take up for honing the block. this might run a couple hundred if you go with the complete rebuild kit. you may also be able to just get rebuilders rings. but if you are going to do a teardown might as well replace the main bearings too. I would not run, until i fixed low compression issue, might leave you stuck. good luck.

 

[BillP]

Re: Run as is?

Originally posted by mrdimuzio:<br /> 2 reasons for no compression. bad rings or bad valves. the other scenario is the "mechanic" did not get the tester seated all the way into the spark plug hole. i would check continuity in the spark plug wire that is missing 1st, could be a broken wire. good luck

Third reason...pinhole in piston crown from carbon build retaining heat and burning through. Low compression makes it worse.<br /><br />Forth reason...blown gasket.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Run as is?

And that's four reasons in a row that don't apply to these old inlines.<br /><br />1. the rings don;t just "go bad" in one cylinder - they might get stuck though.<br /><br />2. It don't have valves.<br /><br />3. It's impossible to hole those piston domes.<br /><br />4. It doesn't have a head gasket or for that matter a removable head.<br /><br />That cylinder either has stuck rings or suffered a near meltdown that stuck the rings - period.<br /><br />Either way, the "fix" is to take it apart / clean or replace that piston and clean and re-ring the other five.<br /><br />-W