Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

[Haffiman]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

I would have started with the 'exterior' - powerpack.

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

I would have started with the 'exterior' - powerpack.

Understand but I am trying to isolate all I can before buying parts

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Measure output from coils under fly-wheel to powerpack using preferably a DVA meter, but even a normal multimeter will give an indication.
If output into powerpack -powerpack is 'gone'. If removing the fly-wheel, you need to buy a puller, and still it is nothing to 'see', you will have to do the same resistance and output measurements as you may do with the flywheel on.

 

[jasper60103]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Hopefully, its just a faulty connection.
I hastily replaced a power pack and both coils on one of my motors, and it didn't fix the problem.

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Measure output from coils under fly-wheel to powerpack using preferably a DVA meter, but even a normal multimeter will give an indication.
If output into powerpack -powerpack is 'gone'. If removing the fly-wheel, you need to buy a puller, and still it is nothing to 'see', you will have to do the same resistance and output measurements as you may do with the flywheel on.

Can you provide some more detail on this testing? I do have a good digital multi meter. What wires would I test and what voltage would I be looking for?

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Start by measuring power from pack to coil (orange, orange/blue), around 250 Volts.
If OK, use a spark tester.
If 'nothing', test output from charge coil to power pack, should be around the same on a multimeter. Check that no short to ground from charge coil.
Sensor coil will only give around 2 volts to power pack from each of the leads.

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

More troubleshooting updates:

Checked for voltage at blue/orange and orange leads to coils = nothing

Checked voltage on brown/yellow and brown leads coming from charge coil=
67VAC 6-12 VDC with intermittently reading over voltage.

Sensor circuit black/white + white/black leads 35 ohms

Also got a .516k reading on the charge coil.

I'm not at all sure on these reading I am getting should I be looking for DC or AC voltage?

Also checked from all wires to ground no shorts.

Next???

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

All voltage are AC, but should be read at 'peak' which makes it a bit difficult without a DVA adapter. However it looks to me that your powerpack is gone.

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Checked voltage on brown/yellow and brown leads coming from charge coil=
67VAC 6-12 VDC with intermittently reading over voltage.

When I was making this test the plug was disconnected from the powerpack. A previous poster was telling me I should have 250 VAC peak both at the coil leads orange & orange/blue as well as coming from the charge coil. Isn't this test telling me that the charge coil has failed? Also, something I hadn't thought about before but the plugs, although there is no excessive build up do look different, one is darker then the other making me wonder if both were firing correctly? I've attached pictures of each plug so you can see what I'm talking about. Additionally, if we should be seeing 250VAC peak from the charge coil and I am seeing 67VAC could there be a rust build up on the coil or stator that is reducing the connectivity?? I'll be getting a thinwall socket today in the hopes of removing the flywheel to at least see under there. Finally, also too take a look again at the last video of the motor running, although it is running to me it still seems as if it is a bit rough.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuT7w220zGc

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Brief Update: When using the Fluke 27 Series Digital Meter set to record peak voltage, set on AC scale I got a peak output of 87VAC with the engine turning over at an effective speed. I understand that without a DVA these readings may not be accurate but I am wondering could I test the output voltage on a 1980 9.9 and use that as a comparison? I'm thinking they should be the same yes?

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

You may try as a reference to test the 9.9, but as said before, without a DVA adaptor it is difficult to get a correct reading. Charge and sensor coils do not often fail on these engines, powerpack does. Test with the 9,9 powerpack on the 30.

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

You may try as a reference to test the 9.9, but as said before, without a DVA adaptor it is difficult to get a correct reading. Charge and sensor coils do not often fail on these engines, powerpack does. Test with the 9,9 powerpack on the 30.

Actually I did attempt that but the connectors don't match up. I located a used powerpack on ebay and it is en route now. All done until that arrives. Will return with updates when appropriate

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Just press out the pins and use the 30 connectors but be sure the color matches on the leads. The 9.9 does not have the Brown temp cable that the 30 has, just 'forget' about it as it is just for activating SLOW.

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Was not aware those pins could be removed from the connectors. Which side? Male or female and can you provide some guidance on how to remove then?

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Both the pins and the tubes may just be pushed out towards the wires. Pins, sleeves and even connectors are even spare parts.
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...0ELCCE&manufacturer=Evinrude&section=Ignition

 

[AlTn]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

first plug pic looks as though it's never fired....you may be happier with Champion QL77JC4 instead of those autolites

 

[Timberwolf17044]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Well I see what you mean after taking a closer look at those connectors. However after trying to get one out and feeling I was very close to breaking the wire or connector I decided since I have a part on order its best just to wait and try out the new part. Also, I did remove the flywheel and inspected the charge coil and sensor, I am attaching some more pictures. Dang thing looks like new. I'm starting to wonder if that power pack wasn't already on the fritz earlier when I was trying to get it to run properly. Thinking now about those plugs you could make the case that the one plug wasn't even firing as clean as it is. Also, I've been trying to do more research and although I do not have a DVA I've read that a good multi meter can give you an idea and that you should take whatever AC voltage reading you get and multiply it by 1.4. With that said and seeing as I was getting 87 VAC That could put me in the 120 range. I'm thinking however that that reading is totally inaccurate and that simply an indication of voltage along with the physical condition of the components would indicate the failure to be elsewhere. All these issues and here we are in central Pennsylvania, second week of January and it was sunny and nearly 60 degrees outside today. Would have been an awesome day on the river.

 

[AlTn]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

if you'll google..dva adapters...Electronic Specialties Model 640 is $22 from Tool Discounters..also you'll see how to's on building one..in fact there are posts already on the forum on constructing one...the meter along with the trouble shooting chart from CDIelectronics help simplify diagnosing electronic ignitions....or if you're like me..make it possible for a diy'er

 

[jasper60103]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

Start by measuring power from pack to coil (orange, orange/blue), around 250 Volts.
If OK, use a spark tester.
If 'nothing', test output from charge coil to power pack, should be around the same on a multimeter. Check that no short to ground from charge coil.
Sensor coil will only give around 2 volts to power pack from each of the leads.

Haffiman, just for future reference.
Where is 250V from the power pack specified in the CDI troubleshooting guide?
Thanks. Jasper

 

[AlTn]

Re: Rough Running Johnson 30 HP

fwiw concerning multiplying by a factor of 1.414 to get dva voltage....I read this on the forum and would credit the source if I could remember it.."All volmeters read RMS which can be converted to Peak by multiplying the voltage give by 1.414, HOWEVER, at lower rpms this does not work because the sampling rate on a DVM is too high. When a motor is running at 1000 rpm this is only 16 cycles/second which is too slow for most DVM's to accurately read. The DVA adapter uses a capacitor to hold the charge for better, more accurate, and consistent reading."