Restoring childhood boat. A 1972 Ranger. Help needed (pictures).

[Woodonglass]

GREAT PROGRESS!!! Are those Fat Stringers Hollow or Solid? I'd want to make em Flat and level from Stern to Bow! Your Trailer roller is out of adjustment. Thats what the slots are for. When you're all done it needs to be raised so it just touches the keel. I'd use a Permanent Marker to make reference lines on the sides where the deck was so you'll have em to know your stringer height

 

[gm280]

Okay artfan1, I see you've been busy. I am impressed. Yes like WOG stated, I would certainly move up the rollers until they just touch the hull. Don't push them any further. The rollers are usually there to help load the boat onto the trailer, and help it find center. And once sitting on the trailer, the rollers should just touch the hull. Any more and they will make a set into the fiberglass, which you don't want. As far as the stringers go. I also agree with WOG. Make the stringers completely straight and level with the floor so they provide some support to the floor as well. Then with some foam, you will have an extremely solid hull again. Nice looking hull now once you've emptied it. And I think you can see, while it is some labor intense type work, it is a interesting work as well. Once you finish the grinding, You will like it even more. Pulling stings from one section to the next will show you what needs to be raised and what needs to be lowered. And diagonal lines will tell you if everything is correct as well... :thumb:

 

[artfan1]

GREAT PROGRESS!!! Are those Fat Stringers Hollow or Solid? I'd want to make em Flat and level from Stern to Bow! Your Trailer roller is out of adjustment. Thats what the slots are for. When you're all done it needs to be raised so it just touches the keel. I'd use a Permanent Marker to make reference lines on the sides where the deck was so you'll have em to know your stringer height

By "Fat Stringers" are you talking about the cross pieces? If so, they are solid I think. I believe they are all from 2" x 2 1/2" lumber but I won't know until I cut them out. The front ends that run towards the bow are cut at an angle on the bottom to allow for the bulge in the hull so the they remain flat and level on the top. However, nothing is level really.
The plywood was attached directly to the hull on the outside edges.

This photo (taken near the bow end), was taken a few days ago. Sorry about all the junk laying around.
There are only two stringers. That far one is the hull and the plywood lays flat on that on both sides.

I was figured the rollers should be touching but forgot to ask early on. They are pretty rusty in that position but I will get under there and get them raised up to just touch to the hull.

Okay artfan1, I see you've been busy. I am impressed. Yes like WOG stated, I would certainly move up the rollers until they just touch the hull. Don't push them any further. The rollers are usually there to help load the boat onto the trailer, and help it find center. And once sitting on the trailer, the rollers should just touch the hull. Any more and they will make a set into the fiberglass, which you don't want. As far as the stringers go. I also agree with WOG. Make the stringers completely straight and level with the floor so they provide some support to the floor as well. Then with some foam, you will have an extremely solid hull again. Nice looking hull now once you've emptied it. And I think you can see, while it is some labor intense type work, it is a interesting work as well. Once you finish the grinding, You will like it even more. Pulling stings from one section to the next will show you what needs to be raised and what needs to be lowered. And diagonal lines will tell you if everything is correct as well... :thumb:

Thanks. it's been raining here like crazy the past few days but I managed to find a few days that where dry enough to work.
The grinding is for sure my least favorite part, which I've heard everyone say many times. It's no fun at all. But once it's done, I get to do the fun stuff, so that keeps me going.

 

[gm280]

By "Fat Stringers" are you talking about the cross pieces? If so, they are solid I think. I believe they are all from 2" x 2 1/2" lumber but I won't know until I cut them out. The front ends that run towards the bow are cut at an angle on the bottom to allow for the bulge in the hull so the they remain flat and level on the top. However, nothing is level really.
The plywood was attached directly to the hull on the outside edges.

This photo (taken near the bow end), was taken a few days ago. Sorry about all the junk laying around.
There are only two stringers. That far one is the hull and the plywood lays flat on that on both sides.

I was figured the rollers should be touching but forgot to ask early on. They are pretty rusty in that position but I will get under there and get them raised up to just touch to the hull.



Thanks. it's been raining here like crazy the past few days but I managed to find a few days that where dry enough to work.
The grinding is for sure my least favorite part, which I've heard everyone say many times. It's no fun at all. But once it's done, I get to do the fun stuff, so that keeps me going.

artfan1, I have to agree with you on the grinding aspect. At one time, I had so much fiberglass dust all over the hull and myself, that I couldn't see the hull contour anymore. And it looked like it snowed on me, the boat and everything within a 50 yard radius... I am honestly surprised my neighbors didn't say anything. But they knew I was rebuilding the boat. Just glad that part is well behind me now... You hang in there. It will get really messy for a while, but then it gets really interesting after that grinding session. I have to say the grinding really wasn't hard to do, on the contrary, just time consuming... JMHO!

 

[Woodonglass]

A 2 1/2" wide stringer is almost 3 times wider than Most. I thought they might be hollow!! If they are solid wood that's a WOW factor for one heck of a strong Backbone for such a small hull. Not sure of the WHY but I guess they had their reasons. I'll be interested in seeing the fabrication of them when you tear them out. Are you certain they are rotten??

 

[sphelps]

) Are you certain they are rotten??

That was my thoughts ....

 

[artfan1]

A 2 1/2" wide stringer is almost 3 times wider than Most. I thought they might be hollow!! If they are solid wood that's a WOW factor for one heck of a strong Backbone for such a small hull. Not sure of the WHY but I guess they had their reasons. I'll be interested in seeing the fabrication of them when you tear them out. Are you certain they are rotten??

The stringers are 2 1/2" tall (in most areas) and 2" wide. Ranger tells me they are actually 2X2's but in their current state, they measure 2 1/2" high in most areas. There are a lot of areas that taper in at the bottom and look like there is no stringer at all, just glass. You can see this in the image down below. They are nice and flat on top but the sides bulge out and then taper in. Not all of them do that, just in some of the areas that they needed to lift the stringers up to meet the floor level. That's how I see it anyway. Maybe those areas are hollow but they don't sound like it when I tap on them.

I know part of the stringer is soft but the rest I don't know yet. Everywhere you tap on the stringers with a hard object, it feels and sounds solid, but the end of one of them, next to the transom had a crack and when I pushed down on it the fiberglass came loose. I then could feel the wood was pretty soft. I figured that if one fraction of an inch was bad that means the whole thing is bad. Right?

I can include some closeup shots tomorrow if that would help. There are a couple other areas that look like the outer layer is cracked along the bottom, as seen in the circle below. This would have let water in so I assume this area will be bad too.
Are there any ways for me to better assess the entire stringer before destroying it? Should I drill holes in the tops and look at the shavings, or grind the top off in areas?

 

[sphelps]

Yep kinda looking like with the bottom edges pulling loose there will probably be some rot ... With the way they are rounded or bellied out they must not be adhered to the sides very well .. Just drill into them or cut the top out like you said to see what shape there in ..

 

[gm280]

Can't tell for sure because I'm only seeing the pictures, but it looks like they may gave installed 2 x material and couldn't get the CSM (if that is what they actually used) to lay down properly and therefore it was merely rounded over instead of attached to the 2 x material. CSM is hard to make it lay tight against squared off edges, but it can be done... Either way, I see new stringers are on the list now...

 

[Woodonglass]

You can drill em if you want, but now that I get a better look at em...I'm pretty sure they're toast and you're gunna need to take em out. I'd get a flexible blade sawsall and get started!!!:joyous: Wouldn't worry about trying to save em for patterns, just cut em out and start from scratch making new ones. Those were not done very well in the first place IMHO!!!:ambivalence:

 

[artfan1]

Does anyone have any idea why I never receive email notifications when there is a reply to this thread? I never have.
I do receive them if someone "likes" a post or if someone sends me a private message but never when there is a post the thread.

I have my settings selected to receive them.
"Email Notifications" is set to "On". I've tried "On, daily" and "On, weekly".
And all other selections are checked on that page. I'm no stranger to forums and I have many other threads related to my work that I receive notifications for, but this one isn't sending them. I've checked my SPAM folder and they are not going in there. Am I missing something obvious here?

Anyway, back to the stringers.

... Those were not done very well in the first place IMHO!!!:ambivalence:

Yes, I agree. Not that I have any real knowledge of the stringers yet but other details stand out to me. First, the part I mentioned earlier where the stringers don't run level to the hull's floor supports. Also, the biggest issue I have noticed in more than one location is how there are big differences in measurements. For example, the port side stringer is 9 1/2" from the edge of the hull's support but the starboard side is 10 1/2". Not that it should have made a big difference in function, I'm just suprised how far off that is.
The front seat pedestal is mounted 2" off center (maybe it's suppose to be, I don't know), and the "Ranger" logo plaques where almost 2" different from each other from stern to logo. Not that anyone would ever notice it since you don't see them both at the same time but taking all the measurements really points out these differences. Is this normal? I guess in all fairness, they were built by hand and most likely several people were installing this stuff at the same time.

Another thing I was a little surprised to see were nails. Is that normal? The floor was nailed to the stringers about every foot. And so was the transom where the second layer of plywood was added to the top half. They were short nails about 5/8" long in the floor and maybe 1" long for the transom, so they didn't do much more than hold the position of the plywood while allowing the epoxy to set I'm sure. Just curious. I know they won't be used when installing the new materials.

 

[Woodonglass]

Were they Ring Shank Nails??

 

[artfan1]

No, they don't appear to be. But they are a little longer than I thought at first. About 1 1/4" maybe.

 

[gm280]

I guess back when Ranger was building boats back then, they used nails to hold things together until the polys took control. I used a lot of concrete blocks when I PBed my floor in so presently I have ZERO hardware in my boat. I will have stainless steel hinges and screws eventually but nothing is holding the floor and stringers except PB, tabbing and poly. And I can tell you, the only way any of it is coming back out is with a sawzall and cutters and grinders. I had two cans of I think potted meat under my floors. I wasn't brave enough to try and open them. :noidea:

 

[kcassells]

History, manufacturing on a process line, new materials today vs. past is what you have been running into. You will read and discover Art, many times about the way persons find out more about their boat during rehab than the actuial mfg. can, did or would provide. Measurements were never exact, levels were never square, heights are rarely on que.
Alot of gaps were filled with pb for compensation for leveleing, iron nails were the dominate cost effective mode used at the time vs. stainelless or deck screws. All said and done in 50 years when your grandchildren rebuild your boat.... they will say " Can ya believe they way Pop pop built this?"
It's all good and again...will be better than the day it came off the line.

 

[artfan1]

gm280, Potted meat? That's so funny. I have to wonder how those ended up under the floor. I doubt I would have tried them either...but maybe a little curious. :disgust:

kcassells, yes, it's very educational to experience the original construction in reverse. Of course, I was not meant to see most of these measurements and I don't think they took away from the function anyway.

I do have to wonder if in 50 years my grandchildren would even bother with rebuilding this boat. They will just 3D print a copy of it.
And then make it fly. lane:

 

[artfan1]

The stringers are off.
Ive attached a few photos showing the construction for anyone interested.

At first, I thought they used several blocks of wood end to end. It looked like there were seams every 13 1/2 - 16. This wasnt the case though.

I pealed back the fiberglass and examined each cut area and they are crosscuts that go down about 3/4-1 deep across the bottom side.

I assume it was to allow some flexibility in the stringers when attaching them to the hull but the cuts dont seem deep enough to do much. I know there is a lot for me to learn about construction of the stringers so maybe this is a common process.

So it appears that the main stringers are each one continuous piece as they should be. Then there are 3 pieces of for the crossmember.

One other note here. The wood appears to be epoxied right to the hull from the transom to the crossmember and then about another foot forward from there. Then they lifted off the hull where the stringers had been cut at an angle. You can see in this image that mat wrapped around under the stringer.

So, on to some grinding now. Since this wont produce much to look at, it will be a while before I post any progress Im sure. Ok, suite up. ainkiller:

 

[Woodonglass]

The way the factory boys did those stringers....Well all I can say is...

 

[kcassells]

You will end up using plywood all the way for the reconstruct. No solid woods. better strength and flexibility. Ya ...lots of fun coming your way. Nice!
Ya ba daba doo.

 

[gm280]

I can see two pieces of 3/4" plywood with one piece of 1/2" plywood will give you that 2" you need. And I even went and lap jointed my plywood together to make the stringer lengths to give it even more strength. And therefore there was no two pieces that joined at the same place, all the joints were staged all over the place...purposely. And then I glued them together and then polyed and CSM and they came out amazingly strong. And once you install them and tab them in place, that hull will be very strong... JMHO