Restoring a 1987 Glasstream 172 Cutlass

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Woodonglass

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Yeah, I know what you mean!!! After you Powder put on your Hooded Tyvek suit and they shouldn't object too Much!!!;):facepalm:
 

AlabamaNewbie

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Just a quick update - rub rail removed and the upper is almost ready to remove from the lower. I still need to disconnect everything on the console and label, but that shouldn't take too long tonight. Did a test spot on the upper to see if it would polish out, and it looked pretty good. I'm still not sure that I would sand the entire thing and paint and gelcoat it, but that may be a later project. Also some pics of the graphics to give to a sign guy I know once I am done.
 

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AlabamaNewbie

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**disclaimer** this picture is NOT my boat, but is the same make/model/year:



17544313.jpg



So here is my question. With the bow rail, seats and windshield all removed - how much do you think the upper will weigh? I'm sitting at work trying to plan for the night and was just curious about how hard it is going to be to remove. My guess is about 300 lbs. Thanks.
 

AShipShow

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300 seems high to me if you're removing all that... with that said I have no basis for that guess lol.
 

AlabamaNewbie

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300 seems high to me if you're removing all that... with that said I have no basis for that guess lol.

So for anyone reading this -- I didn't put it on a scale, but I'd guess a little more than tree-fiddy in weight. I have a beast of a son that weights about 180 and dead lifts 325 - it took him, me, my other son and wife to lift it off, and I ended up with a pulled muscle! But its off, now to remove the rest of the deck and stringers. Was going to do that this weekend, but after doing yard work Saturday morning, I learned the hard way what "heat advisory" means. lol
 

AlabamaNewbie

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Yes I have done a search and read what people have said about it. I have a couple of reasons for considering this route, First, because it seems easier and while that itself is a lame reason - I have read and read and read about fiberglassing in new stringers and I think it may be beyond my ability. Second - I do not have a place out of the sun to work on this thing. No matter what time of day, I have direct sunlight and its hot in Alabama. I don't think I have time to work the resin before it starts to cure.

So, Seacast ... yay or nay? For anyone that has used it - have you had any issues? How are the fumes? While I don't have a place to work out of the sun, I can do prep work and then put it in my wifes bay of the garage for a night or two to pour and cure. But I don't want fumes permeating through the house.

I've priced both traditional wood replacement and glassing versus seacast, and they actually come out about the same cost, but I was also guesstimating on the length of the stringers for the seacast estimation.

Which brings me to another question - I am still trying to get a time to finish pulling the deck after getting the upper/cap out of the way. This is a 17' BR, but the actual data for it says length is 16.58 ft. I guess they do like accounting and just round up. Anyway- I know the stringers won't be that long. I'll know exactly how long when I can get them measured - but out of curiosity.... does anyone know a good estimate for the actual stringer length?

Thanks everyone.
 

AlabamaNewbie

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Got the deck off last night, but didn't get pictures because it started raining on me and I had to cover it all real quick.

Question though. All of the stringer replacements I've seen so far have had 2 stringers, 1.5" thick. This one has 4 stringers, each is 1 inch thick. I'm guessing its "ok", it lasted 31 years without folding in half. I had decided to use SeaCast for my stringers, but now I am not sure if I should go the traditional method and replace with 1.5" stringers.

Thoughts?
 

boedekerj

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I did a 17' bowrider Stringer/Transom replacement last year with SeaCast.

Pros: Product is (literally) bullet proof. As in, can't shoot a .22 through it (@1.5"). Also, 100% non-organic. Will never rot. If you keep the existing stringer channels in place and remove the old stringers through the top, you can save time, measuring and guess work about what your stringer height should be.

Cons; It will not be cheaper. It actually took quite a bit of time as well, as I had to plug the "holes" in the factory stringer channels prior to the pour. (Hindsight, I now know how I could have done it differently to save alot of that time, but I was a first timer, so...). It's NOT a one man job, and there are no "restarts". If you mess up a stringer, it'll cost you some time, some wood, and a little resin/glass. You mess up one of the SeaCast kits, your bank account will bottom out, your wife, kids and dog will leave you, with a non-working boat.

I ended up using 2 5-gallon kits of the SeaCast for mine, and I used ALL OF IT. IMO; the Key is preparation, and assistance.

Sabine @ SeaCast is a fantastic resource. She will literally NOT sell you the product until you provide her will photographic evidence that you are ready for the product. :)

-jb
 

AlabamaNewbie

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Cons; It will not be cheaper.

Because this thing has 4 stringers 1" thick instead of 2 @ 1.5", the cost to do wood/fiberglass doubles. The amount of material needed to glass in a stringer is mostly the same between them (difference being the 1/2 inch over the top). So compared to SeaCast, its not cheaper, but it's pretty much the same. After taking accurate measurements last night and calculating on their website, I will need 14.4 gallons of Seacast, but I intend to get 20 gallons for safe measure. Of course I am quite a ways out from that, but I try to plan way ahead.

I am interested in your hindsight revelation though, as I have a few spots in the bow area where the factory didn't even try to get it glassed. I guess they figured if water gets up there, you're done anyway. lol
 

kcassells

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Pics don't tell enough of the story.Were the stringers etc. ply or just wood? 3/4" ply is all I think you need, probably 1/2 would do the job too. That cost of coosa, abx, bcx vs. Seacaste is not comparable at all. IMHO.
Mass produced boats mfg's just threw crap in there and typically were the worst install tech's,
I can't tell from the pics what going on there. If your heartbent on seacaste well then that's that. :D
Taggin along.
 

boedekerj

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Because this thing has 4 stringers 1" thick instead of 2 @ 1.5", the cost to do wood/fiberglass doubles. The amount of material needed to glass in a stringer is mostly the same between them (difference being the 1/2 inch over the top). So compared to SeaCast, its not cheaper, but it's pretty much the same. After taking accurate measurements last night and calculating on their website, I will need 14.4 gallons of Seacast, but I intend to get 20 gallons for safe measure. Of course I am quite a ways out from that, but I try to plan way ahead.

I am interested in your hindsight revelation though, as I have a few spots in the bow area where the factory didn't even try to get it glassed. I guess they figured if water gets up there, you're done anyway. lol

Not to belabor the "not cheaper" discussion, I am curious if SeaCast has dropped their prices. 2-5 Gallon kits were a shade under $500. The SeaCast math on my stringer replacements (with 2x ~1 inch stringers plus transom) was 8.5 gallons, or $500. Using 3/4" Oak Plywood + Resin, Fiberglass, Cabosil, Milled Fibers was $150.

Regardless, I have no regrets on using SeaCast. IMO; The fact that the Transom will never tear off is a safety precaution well worth the extra $350.

As for hind-sight; I spent weeks getting the stinger channels water tight. Every time I would re-fill the transom and channels with water to check, I'd find another spot weeping water. I lost a few of weekends just with that. That may not sound like much, but if you do most of your work on the weekends, thats almost a month of lost time!

What I would have done differently during the prep;
Perfection is not necessary. Actual HOLES must be properly plugged and laminated prior to the pour. Spots that are weeping can be covered with two layers of gorilla tape during the pour.

During the pour;
1. Arrange for one, or preferably 2 people to help. One to pour, one to hold the forms, one to spread the goop and follow with the clamps for the channels.
2. Create "clamps" to pinch your transom and stringers at the correct thickness. I've seen some vid's where folks cut, and then bent some metal flat stock into appropriately sized "U" clips. Place them every 18" to 24". If you don't, the seacast will cause the channels to spread, which will take up more of the goop.
3. Plan it, keeping in mind your funnels. (And you will need this/these. Do NOT try to pour straight from the 5 gallon pails into the channel.
4. Stop the pour 1/2" from the top. Figure on finishing the top 1/2" caps with some thickened resin and 1708.

If I think of anything else, I be back... :)
 

AlabamaNewbie

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I’m not hell bent on seacast, and after today its probably back off the table anyway. The cost of the wood isn’t bad, but 15 gallons of resin at $50 a gallon is $750 in rsin before adding the cost of the fiber, etc. so seacast would still be 15 gallons, but at $231 per 5 gallons - seacast is $693, then with shipping i’m at about $740. Then I still need some resin and glass, so it would be about $800. So its about the same cost, and i was looking at the ease since I wouldn’t have to cut the glass and smooth the hull, etc. But after getting the foam out today, there are so many spots where theres no glass left, and some spots at the bow where it looks like it was never even covered. So i would end up spending so much more time and money to get the glass where it will hold the seacast that it doesnt make sense to go that route. My main motivator for the seacast in the first place was not having to do as much glassing. Its hard doing anything on this boat when you don’t have a shady place to work and its stinkin hot!!:cool:
 

kcassells

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Never order a bulk order of anything. Make up a start order see how it goes for you then make larger batch orders based on time and $$.
So you go to the store buy a pack of 80 grinder disc lets say 5 or 10. Gets the job going. By the end of the grinding you end up buying a 100...You'll get larger packs based on your use and needs. Beats having 90 left over or a resin going bad.
It is of course great to get your project costs/estimates inline ahead of time.
Nope not me...nope, nope...just move thru it as it goes. If I did a budget probably would of quit along time ago.
Just enjoy the work, progress, learning and the farts on the forum. :eek:
 

AlabamaNewbie

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A few more lessons learned this weekend.

1. Water-soaked flotation foam is heavier than it looks. I bet I took another 100 lbs easy off of the hull.
2. Ants love water-soaked foam. I guess it saves them the trouble of finding material to make a nest out of. And I guess the water gives them a supply without having to go find it.
3. Ants who love water soaked foam really dislike you disturbing that home.
4. If I could meet any person either living or dead, based on this weekend I would say it would have to be the inventor of the shop vac.

But, I have about 85% of the foam out now. I still have the sections of the deck on either side of the motor, then the foam underneath. I can't get to that part until I find a way to lift the motor out. I guess this week I need to suck it up and work on a gantry.
 

oldrem

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I weighed the bags of wet foam I took out of the 14ft Ouachita and removed 270lbs - that stuff is HEAVY
 

boedekerj

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To glass in stringers, it will take way, way, way less than 15 gallons of resin. Probably one or two for just the transom/stringers. You will very likely need 15 gallons of resin overall whether you use SeaCast or wood though. I've probably used over 2 gallons for PB alone! Another 10 or so for glassing the deck, seatboxes, etc, and I'm not QUITE done.

All told, you're IN DEEP, friend! I'm always picking up Resin. One thing I will say; In a pinch, you can buy the 1 gallon Bondo Fiberglass resin at WalMart for $35. After having bought online through several different disty's, I can It works just fine. I've had no problems with it. It's compatible with pretty much everything from everywhere else I buy (Fiberglast, West Systems, 3M, etc).
 

AlabamaNewbie

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All told, you're IN DEEP, friend! I'm always picking up Resin. One thing I will say; In a pinch, you can buy the 1 gallon Bondo Fiberglass resin at WalMart for $35. After having bought online through several different disty's, I can It works just fine. I've had no problems with it. It's compatible with pretty much everything from everywhere else I buy (Fiberglast, West Systems, 3M, etc).

I have to rebuild the seats, the dog house, and the flip up thing on the back, and was planning on using the walmart stuff for that. Those are my "rainy day" or "too stinkin' hot to be outside day" projects so I figured a gallon of that would be perfect for the pieces that aren't really glassed in to anything else. I just wish they had better glass.

And now that you mention it, I can see where my mix-up was. I was remembering the 15 gallons from the "stuff you need" sticky and wasn't thinking about what would be on the deck. I was thinking it just all went for the stringers. That really makes me feel a lot better about the whole thing.
 

AlabamaNewbie

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Another question. I thought the stringers were going to be 1 inch. Well I thought that because the top was 1 inch. That whole thing of believing what I measure. :facepalm:

So after taking the top of of some of it, I see that it was only 1 inch because they didn't bevel the edges so the glass didn't transition well over the top. The wood is actually 3/4 inch. Ok, I've read more now and that is ok from what I have read. But back when I thought it was 1.5" (just from others' experiences I read), I knew 3/4 + 3/4 laminated with pl premium, with the seams offset to make 1 long stringer. Ok, at 1 " i was still on board with just using 1/2 + 1/2, staggered seams - 1 long board.

Now that I am down to 3/4" -- what do I do to keep from having a seam/weak point? 2 layers of 3/8" with staggered seams? I don't think any of my local HD or Lowes has 3/8" thickness of the right kind of plywood. I was excited when I finally found 3/4" BCX back when I thought I needed 1.5" .. and it was the ONLY BCX they had ( and no ACX, or MDO, or any of the others I've seen mentioned).
 
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