replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

pokertrampp check your PM's, I cant help with your troubleshooting but I may be able to buy some of your extra parts to help fix my problems. Look at the top of the page right under the ad for the PM clicky.

I don't have the book in front of me but I think the red wire from rec. to solenoid carries the charge back to the battery.

I replied...Thanks

 

[daselbee]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Any thoughts on whether or not the power pack could be the cause? I don?t want to spend $200+ if the consensus is that it could not be the problem? I will post some pics of the problem wire tonight if possible.

No, your power pack is NOT the problem with the charging system. Your mechanic that said the red wire feeds the reg/rect is just wrong.
The two yellows input the 18v to the reg/rect, the reg/rect does it's job, and outputs a 14v regulated source of current TO the battery for charging.

Are you sure your battery is good? A bad battery may not accept a charge, and look like the reg/rect is bad.

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

No, your power pack is NOT the problem with the charging system. Your mechanic that said the red wire feeds the reg/rect is just wrong.
The two yellows input the 18v to the reg/rect, the reg/rect does it's job, and outputs a 14v regulated source of current TO the battery for charging.

Are you sure your battery is good? A bad battery may not accept a charge, and look like the reg/rect is bad.

The power pack could be the problem with my engine mis, is that correct???

I thought about the battery except that, wouldnt there still be +-14V coming out of the rectifier?

Also, If i uderstand correctly, the charging system does not kick in until a certain rpm, is it possible that my motor is just not reaching that point... I am running it on muffs in the driveway and did not want to rev it very high to avoid doing any internal damage.

In addition, I do not have a working tach to know what rpm I am at.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

The power pack could be the problem with my engine mis, is that correct???

I thought about that, but wouldnt there still be 14v coming out of the rectifier?

Also, If i uderstand correctly, the charging system does not kick in until a certain rpm, is it possible that my motor is just not reaching that point... I am running it on muffs in the driveway and did not want to rev it very high to avoid doing any internal damage.

In addition, I do not have a working tach to know what rpm I am at.

Power pack could be cause of engine miss.

The charging system, when working correctly, charges at all engine RPM's, but produces greater voltage/amperes at higher RPM. Idle charging voltage may be ~ 13 vdc and go up to ~ 14 to 14.5 VDC on a regulated rectifier. On an unregulated rectifier, the voltage may well exceed 16 VDC at high RPM.

 

[daselbee]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

The power pack could be the problem with my engine mis, is that correct???

I thought about that, but wouldnt there still be 14v coming out of the rectifier?

Also, If i uderstand correctly, the charging system does not kick in until a certain rpm, is it possible that my motor is just not reaching that point... I am running it on muffs in the driveway and did not want to rev it very high to avoid doing any internal damage.

In addition, I do not have a working tach to know what rpm I am at.

1. Yes the pack can be the source of your miss.

2. Regarding rectifier voltages, I am describing the way is should work, not what you are seeing. You should see 14v (or so) (not real critical)...13-15 v when the reg/rect is charging the battery. I look for 14.7 volts when the system is working right. There, I said it. But it can vary with your engine.

3. Your battery could well be not accepting a charge, fooling the reg/rect into thinking it is fully charged, and therefore limiting the output down to 12v.
I don't know at this point. I asked..."Do you have a known good battery?" You aren't trying to do this testing with an external (110v) battery charger hooked up, but just not turned on are you? The circuitry of the external charger may be fouling up the reg/rect if you are.

4. The charging system does NOT kick in at a magic rpm above idle. It will charge at idle; it will charge at WOT. But if the battery does not need a charge, it will not charge. This is unusual, the battery will almost always need a charge. The reg/rect determines whether or not to charge based on the battery voltage, and how much current the battery is absorbing when running. You may see a slight rise in the charging voltage with higher RPMs, but that is what the reg/rect does...it regulates or squelches that higher voltage down to the normal 13-15 volts needed for charging. It is not that critical....we are talking about a boat motor...not some medical device that measures millivolts heartbeat....
13 -15 volts out, maybe rising with increased RPM, not critical...and 18 volts AC in...maybe as much as 25v AC in from the yellows....it really is a wide range of operation. Now, an unregulated system is totally different. It's voltage will rise and fall with engine speed.

Now, when you read, say, 12.5 vdc at the battery, and start it up and read 12.5v again....now we are seeing a problem. That is where the details matter.

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

I can tell you that the engine has a constant "Pop" type mis throughout the rpm range, and at times (mostly at any rpm above idle) it will act like someone reached in and turned the key off and back on again real fast and I get a puff of black smoke out of the exhaust. it is strange, and I have not been able to do anything to make it happen.

Does this sound like a Bad Power Pack, what normally are the symptoms of a bad power pack.

I figure if I can correct at least one of the two problems maybe it will help narrow down the other.

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Now, when you read, say, 12.5 vdc at the battery, and start it up and read 12.5v again....now we are seeing a problem. That is where the details matter.

I can tell you that if I have for example 11.9 vots before starting, it will have 11.9 volts after starting the engine, and it stays there no matter what the rpm is. Keep in mind, I have tried several rectifiers one was/is a known working one, it was working before and after I tried it on my engine.

 

[mamm7215]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Once again, easy test to do:
1. Disconnect red rectifier wire from terminal board. So it's hanging unattached to anything.
2. Start motor, measure voltage from red rectifier wire to good ground on motor.
3. If no voltage on red wire, rectifier is bad. If there's 12-14ish volts, rectifier is good and able to charge battery.
You haven't said if you've done this or not, sorry if you did and I missed it. Daselbee is raising some good points, once you verify something is good, no reason to revisit it. And yes, a bad power pack can certainly cause a miss, but so can a good power pack with a bad ground.

 

[mamm7215]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

I can tell you that if I have for example 11.9 vots before starting, it will have 11.9 volts after starting the engine, and it stays there no matter what the rpm is. Keep in mind, I have tried several rectifiers one was/is a known working one, it was working before and after I tried it on my engine.

11.9volts would indicate a bad battery. Probably have a dead cell and will not take a charge...

 

[daselbee]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

I can tell you that the engine has a constant "Pop" type mis throughout the rpm range, and at times (mostly at any rpm above idle) it will act like someone reached in and turned the key off and back on again real fast and I get a puff of black smoke out of the exhaust. it is strange, and I have not been able to do anything to make it happen.

Does this sound like a Bad Power Pack, what normally are the symptoms of a bad power pack.

I figure if I can correct at least one of the two problems maybe it will help narrow down the other.

That popping sounds like a backfire...from a timing problem of some sort.
One problem at a time here...

Notice that Jim Wilde's and my posts are in agreement.

 

[daselbee]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Once again, easy test to do:
1. Disconnect red rectifier wire from terminal board. So it's hanging unattached to anything.
2. Start motor, measure voltage from red rectifier wire to good ground on motor.
3. If no voltage on red wire, rectifier is bad. If there's 12-14ish volts, rectifier is good and able to charge battery.
You haven't said if you've done this or not, sorry if you did and I missed it. Daselbee is raising some good points, once you verify something is good, no reason to revisit it. And yes, a bad power pack can certainly cause a miss, but so can a good power pack with a bad ground.

Yep, agree 100%. Look at #3 there...12-14ish volts. Exactly. It can vary, and it is not real critical....just needs to be a couple of volts or so above the static battery voltage.

 

[daselbee]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Wow, you are getting some real traffic on this thread....and my post count just went up by a count of one with no real significant input! We're pullin for you.

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Once again, easy test to do:
1. Disconnect red rectifier wire from terminal board. So it's hanging unattached to anything.
2. Start motor, measure voltage from red rectifier wire to good ground on motor.
3. If no voltage on red wire, rectifier is bad. If there's 12-14ish volts, rectifier is good and able to charge battery.
You haven't said if you've done this or not, sorry if you did and I missed it. Daselbee is raising some good points, once you verify something is good, no reason to revisit it. And yes, a bad power pack can certainly cause a miss, but so can a good power pack with a bad ground.

No I have not had a chance to do this yet. I do plan, to possibly tomorrow evening. I did swich out the rectifier with a KNOWN working rectifier and it still did not charge, and when I put it back on the other motor it worked fine, as did my rectifier... I do plan to try this test but I am not expecting it to pass, I thinking maybe the battery if fooling it into thinking it fully charged as mentioned before, not sure why else it is not charging on my motor but it does on another, Im gonna switch batteries and see what happens.

I do have a question about this procedure...

From what I understand, the red wire is the supply wire as well as the output wire for the rectifier, is this correct? If so, then if I disconnect the supply where does it get the output voltage? From the Stator??? Not trying to argue just trying to understand how the system works so I may help someone else later.

I ordered a new Power Pack tonight hopefully it will be here by the weekend. I am hoping it will correct the engine mis and then it may be easier to troubleshoot the charging system. Thanks again, for everyone?s input.

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

We're pullin for you.

Thank you, I hope at the very least this thread can help other people that may have some of the same problems.

 

[mamm7215]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Well there's the 12v from the battery at the starter solenoid and on my motor the red wire from the terminal strip that connects to the rectifier lead also connects to the 12v battery post at the solenoid. The rectifier gets it's AC voltage from the yellow and yellow/gray pair from the stator. It used diodes/resistors internally to convert the 18-25 volts AC to 12-14ish volts DC. It outputs this voltage to the red wire that connects to the battery main at the starter solenoid, thus supplying charging voltage (current actually) back to the battery. Connected this way, the system doesn't "know" it's even there as it's hooked up in parallel but the supplied voltage from the rectifer trickle charges your battery as you run. If you took a known good one that didn't work on your motor but worked after you put it back on another good motor, it absolutely isn't the rectifier.

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

it absolutely isn't the rectifier.

So what next then????

 

[bailey]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

When you say that your flip floping parts from the "bad" motor to another motor which you say is working (charging its battery) are you also changing the batterys,just a thought,thinking that the one battery is low in charge (poor or dead cell) thereby not fully recharging itself. Also does a battery with a low charge contribute to "electrical problems" ie regulator, rectifer,stator.
Bailey

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

When you say that your flip floping parts from the "bad" motor to another motor which you say is working (charging its battery) are you also changing the batterys,just a thought,thinking that the one battery is low in charge (poor or dead cell) thereby not fully recharging itself. Also does a battery with a low charge contribute to "electrical problems" ie regulator, rectifer,stator.
Bailey

No I have not swapped the batteries yet. I'm going to try that tonight.

 

[mamm7215]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

When you say that your flip floping parts from the "bad" motor to another motor which you say is working (charging its battery) are you also changing the batterys,just a thought,thinking that the one battery is low in charge (poor or dead cell) thereby not fully recharging itself. Also does a battery with a low charge contribute to "electrical problems" ie regulator, rectifer,stator.
Bailey

Basically, the only thing the battery is for is to power the starter and lights/radio/accessories, etc. The motor provides it's own power with the magnets in the flywheel passing over the stator coils providing the current the motor needs to run. A shorted or dead cell in the battery could show up as looking like the rectifier isn't charging. Not sure if it could cause a miss but it's amazing how many timing or fuel "issues" a simple clean and tightening of the negative battery terminal can clear up. Not saying that's what's going on here but a battery swap would be another easy test.

 

[Pokertrampp]

Re: replaced rectifier and it still is not charging.

Basically, the only thing the battery is for is to power the starter and lights/radio/accessories, etc. The motor provides it's own power with the magnets in the flywheel passing over the stator coils providing the current the motor needs to run. A shorted or dead cell in the battery could show up as looking like the rectifier isn't charging. Not sure if it could cause a miss but it's amazing how many timing or fuel "issues" a simple clean and tightening of the negative battery terminal can clear up. Not saying that's what's going on here but a battery swap would be another easy test.

I am going to try and swap batteries tonight if I have the time, I will post results after. Thanks again!