Ram 5.7L hemi engine tick, misfire cyl 3

[poconojoe]

2015 Ram 1500 5.7L hemi. 105,000 miles.
Someone I know has what seems to be an almost common problem with her engine.

Check engine light codes point to misfire on cylinder 3.

A friend did the following for her:
Swapped coil packs, but no change.
Changed all 16 spark plugs, no change.
Changed O2 sensors, no change.

Then she brought it to an independent shop that another friend owns. The injectors were good. They opened things up and saw that the roller on a lifter was seized and wiped out a lobe on the cam.

So, they told her she needs a rebuild or replacement engine. The teardown and rebuild will cost about the same as installing a used engine from a salvage yard. The verbal estimate was around $5,000.
A Jasper engine is out of her budget.

I'm a bit concerned with a salvage engine since we don't really know the history or the mileage.

They say they have to pull the engine to do the cam. Do you guys agree with that?
I guess the days of removing everything in front of the engine and pull the cam are over. Now you need to pull the engine?

It's really ashamed because the truck is in really nice shape and used trucks are priced way out there these days.

So, rebuild or used engine?

Is there a chance that there are damaging metal filings floating all around the engine that could later cause problems?
Oil changes were done at the OEM intervals, so I'm hoping most metal filings were caught by the filters.

Thoughts? Ideas?

 

[matt167]

Yup. My girlfriend has a 15 ram Hemi that started ticking. Friend of mine has a 16 that has the misfire. I told her to have it checked because it’s either the manifolds or the valve train on those. Both are common. I’d put a used engine in it and redo the cams

 

[poconojoe]

Thanks for the reply.

She has that aftermarket warranty "Car Shield " that has tons of TV commercials promoted by some big celebrities.
Her mechanic said they are terrible and do everything they can to not pay. Of course they will, no one wants to pay out a $5,000 bill.
She has all the oil change records from the dealer, but I'm afraid they will come up with some kind of reason to not pay.

Anyone have experience with "Car Shield "?

 

[Ed Yez]

Prepare yourself for a long and frustrating battle with CarShield. They're among the worst.
Why did the shop recommend a complete engine replacement/rebuild? Did they actually see metal in the engine or are they assuming and looking for the easier money? They may not have someone qualified to do the cam and lifters, therefore complete engine replacement is all they can do and they're try to push you in that direction.
The VVT Oil Control Valve screens must be inspected for debris. If there is very little or none, you can get away with a cam and lifters. I'm 95% sure the engine can stay in the car. The heads do have to come off though.
If there is debris in the valve, it has been circulated through the engine in which case replacement or rebuild would be recommended.

 

[poconojoe]

Prepare yourself for a long and frustrating battle with CarShield. They're among the worst.
Why did the shop recommend a complete engine replacement/rebuild? Did they actually see metal in the engine or are they assuming and looking for the easier money? They may not have someone qualified to do the cam and lifters, therefore complete engine replacement is all they can do and they're try to push you in that direction.
The VVT Oil Control Valve screens must be inspected for debris. If there is very little or none, you can get away with a cam and lifters. I'm 95% sure the engine can stay in the car. The heads do have to come off though.
If there is debris in the valve, it has been circulated through the engine in which case replacement or rebuild would be recommended.

Thanks for the response.
The mechanic or technician as they're called these days, pulled a lifter that had a seized roller and spied down at the cam with his bore scope. This is what he said. I was not a witness. He said it would cost about the same to repair it compared to a used engine swap. That price was around $5,000. My daughter, the owner of the truck, is a single mom without much of an income. The shop is owned by a friend.

He had the same opinion of Car Shield. I hope we can get them to pay for the repair. Seems like it will be an uphill battle. Do you think they would lean more toward fixing it if it were a dealership doing the repair as verses an independent shop?

 

[Ed Yez]

Thanks for the response.
The mechanic or technician as they're called these days, pulled a lifter that had a seized roller and spied down at the cam with his bore scope. This is what he said. I was not a witness. He said it would cost about the same to repair it compared to a used engine swap. That price was around $5,000. My daughter, the owner of the truck, is a single mom without much of an income. The shop is owned by a friend.

He had the same opinion of Car Shield. I hope we can get them to pay for the repair. Seems like it will be an uphill battle. Do you think they would lean more toward fixing it if it were a dealership doing the repair as verses an independent shop?

I've seen phenomenal independent shops, crappy dealers and vice versa. In general, you're usually better off with the dealer as they work on these all the time, but they are more expensive and Car Shield likely has a cap on the labor rate they'll pay. Guaranteed it's less than what the dealer charges and you will probably have to pay the difference. Same goes for the parts, but at least at the dealer, you know you're getting factory parts put back in. Car Shield will lean towards the absolute cheapest way out.

Have the shop pull the VVT Oil Control Valve. That's the next step to determine if the engine can be saved. Have them show you the valve. See attached service bulletin. Friend or not, be wary that they condemned the engine without a proper look inside. They can also cut open the oil filter and look inside.

As far as Car Shield, read the contract! It will explain the steps you have to take to open a claim and follow their procedure to the letter. Do this right away! They will look for any loophole or excuse to deny you. If they do agree to cover the repair, they will likely not pay for a complete engine regardless.

 

[poconojoe]

I've seen phenomenal independent shops, crappy dealers and vice versa. In general, you're usually better off with the dealer as they work on these all the time, but they are more expensive and Car Shield likely has a cap on the labor rate they'll pay. Guaranteed it's less than what the dealer charges and you will probably have to pay the difference. Same goes for the parts, but at least at the dealer, you know you're getting factory parts put back in. Car Shield will lean towards the absolute cheapest way out.

Have the shop pull the VVT Oil Control Valve. That's the next step to determine if the engine can be saved. Have them show you the valve. See attached service bulletin. Friend or not, be wary that they condemned the engine without a proper look inside. They can also cut open the oil filter and look inside.

As far as Car Shield, read the contract! It will explain the steps you have to take to open a claim and follow their procedure to the letter. Do this right away! They will look for any loophole or excuse to deny you. If they do agree to cover the repair, they will likely not pay for a complete engine regardless.

The independent shop's rate is definitely way lower than the dealership. Their rate is $85 per hour, which is very reasonable. The dealer is well over $100.

 

[poconojoe]

I've seen phenomenal independent shops, crappy dealers and vice versa. In general, you're usually better off with the dealer as they work on these all the time, but they are more expensive and Car Shield likely has a cap on the labor rate they'll pay. Guaranteed it's less than what the dealer charges and you will probably have to pay the difference. Same goes for the parts, but at least at the dealer, you know you're getting factory parts put back in. Car Shield will lean towards the absolute cheapest way out.

Have the shop pull the VVT Oil Control Valve. That's the next step to determine if the engine can be saved. Have them show you the valve. See attached service bulletin. Friend or not, be wary that they condemned the engine without a proper look inside. They can also cut open the oil filter and look inside.

As far as Car Shield, read the contract! It will explain the steps you have to take to open a claim and follow their procedure to the letter. Do this right away! They will look for any loophole or excuse to deny you. If they do agree to cover the repair, they will likely not pay for a complete engine regardless.

That link was interesting. The fact that Chrysler knows about this is frustrating at the least. There's no consumer cause for this. It's the luck of the draw. She just happened to be one of the unlucky ones. This engine was well taken care of. All the oil changes were done at the proper intervals by the dealership and we have all the records.
Bottom line, this should be paid for by the manufacturer. Good luck with that. It makes me think about those Ford Triton engines that spit out their spark plugs. Ford just ignored everyone.

 

[Ed Yez]

I get what you're saying and understand your frustration, however, if the engine went 100k+ miles, realistically, how long do you expect the manufacturer to be responsible? Back when we were young, if a car had 100k miles on it, you were lucky if you could still drive it to the junkyard!
All auto manufacturers/suppliers have had their share of poor designs that consumers have suffered for. Ford's spark plugs are a good example, as well as their 6.0 and 6.4 diesels, Porsche IMS bearings, Subaru head gaskets, Nissan CVTs, and the list goes on and on.

Some suspect extended idling time makes these engines more prone to this failure. Did your daughter buy it new? Some trucks have an hour meter in the instrument cluster screen that shows total hours and idle hours. If not, a good scanner can access that info.

 

[poconojoe]

I get what you're saying and understand your frustration, however, if the engine went 100k+ miles, realistically, how long do you expect the manufacturer to be responsible? Back when we were young, if a car had 100k miles on it, you were lucky if you could still drive it to the junkyard!
All auto manufacturers/suppliers have had their share of poor designs that consumers have suffered for. Ford's spark plugs are a good example, as well as their 6.0 and 6.4 diesels, Porsche IMS bearings, Subaru head gaskets, Nissan CVTs, and the list goes on and on.

Some suspect extended idling time makes these engines more prone to this failure. Did your daughter buy it new? Some trucks have an hour meter in the instrument cluster screen that shows total hours and idle hours. If not, a good scanner can access that info.

Thanks for your input.
She did not buy it new. I think it was a lease return.
It was purchased at our local dealership where we have purchased many vehicles, mostly new but a couple of used ones. We have what I believe is a pretty good relationship with them. We usually get pretty good deals when purchasing.

 

[Lou C]

I’ve read of these problems for a long time having owned a 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7. I have not had cam/lifter problems though. The earlier run of the Hemi starting in 2005 had some problems with dropped valve seats but not a lot of cam problems. On the next revision of the Hemi which went to variable valve timing (2009 & up I think) they had solved the dropped valve seat problem but seemed to have more problems with cams & lifters. Not sure if it was the change to VVT, or a supplier change etc. I do know that to change the cam & lifters on these the heads have to come off and the radiator/condenser/grill have to come out so the cam can come out. So it’s a lot of labor. I did hear that the problems were solved but not sure what model year that starts with.
I have used Mobil 1 5/20 oil since I bought it at about 25,000 miles it is now at 119,000 miles…..

 

[Ed Yez]

Thanks for your input.
She did not buy it new. I think it was a lease return.
It was purchased at our local dealership where we have purchased many vehicles, mostly new but a couple of used ones. We have what I believe is a pretty good relationship with them. We usually get pretty good deals when purchasing.

In that case, ask them if they can offer some assistance/discount either through the dealership, the manufacturer, or both. Make sure you bring up how many cars you've bought and serviced there, etc. etc.
Did she buy the Car Shield contract from that same dealership? If so, definitely take it back there and let them fight on your behalf.
With a lot of these service contract companies, if it's sold through a dealer, they usually have an agreed upon labor rate that the contract will pay as long as the repair gets done at the selling dealer. Dig out your contract. All of this info should be in there.

 

[poconojoe]

I’ve read of these problems for a long time having owned a 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7. I have not had cam/lifter problems though. The earlier run of the Hemi starting in 2005 had done problems with dropped valve seats but not a lot of cam problems. On the next revision of the Hemi which went to variable valve timing (2009 & up I think) they had solved the dropped valve seat problem but seemed to have more problems with cams & lifters. Not sure if it was the change to VVT, or a supplier change etc. I do know that to change the cam & lifters on these the heads have to come off and the radiator/condenser/grill have to come out so the cam can come out. So it’s a lot of labor. I did hear that the problems were solved but not sure what model year that starts with.

Yeah, it's actually ashame because otherwise it's a really nice truck. It's a 2015 and the body is almost without any blemishes.

She needs a truck because she hauls hay and feed and doesn't want to pull a trailer with something like an SUV.

The prices of used trucks are now what new ones used to cost. It's just out of reach for her.

 

[poconojoe]

In that case, ask them if they can offer some assistance/discount either through the dealership, the manufacturer, or both. Make sure you bring up how many cars you've bought and serviced there, etc. etc.
Did she buy the Car Shield contract from that same dealership? If so, definitely take it back there and let them fight on your behalf.
With a lot of these service contract companies, if it's sold through a dealer, they usually have an agreed upon labor rate that the contract will pay as long as the repair gets done at the selling dealer. Dig out your contract. All of this info should be in there.

She is paying $99 a month for Car Shield and did not get the contract through the dealer. She only started Car Shield a couple of months ago and now this happened. I can see them rejecting the claim for some insignificant reason.

 

[poconojoe]

In that case, ask them if they can offer some assistance/discount either through the dealership, the manufacturer, or both. Make sure you bring up how many cars you've bought and serviced there, etc. etc.
Did she buy the Car Shield contract from that same dealership? If so, definitely take it back there and let them fight on your behalf.
With a lot of these service contract companies, if it's sold through a dealer, they usually have an agreed upon labor rate that the contract will pay as long as the repair gets done at the selling dealer. Dig out your contract. All of this info should be in there.

I do have a good relationship with the dealer.
Mentioning how many vehicles I've bought there has saved me money on purchases before. Plus I always squeeze them for freebies like winter floor liners whenever I purchase a vehicle.

 

[Ed Yez]

She is paying $99 a month for Car Shield and did not get the contract through the dealer. She only started Car Shield a couple of months ago and now this happened. I can see them rejecting the claim for some insignificant reason.

They'll probably try to say it was a pre-existing condition. I'm sorry you're going through this. Good luck. I hope you get it resolved without too many hassles.

 

[Renken2000Classic]

My neighbor had a Hemi Ram for a few years that ticked. He'd start it up, let it run for as long as it took him to move his hand from the key to the shifter, and go ticking off down the road every morning. Don't know the year. He's got a Ford diesel now and lets it warm up about the same amount.

I remember how many of the Dodge Caravans from the late 80's early 90s you used to see smoking... No connection to the current/more recent line of products other than name I imagine.

But Ice T says Car Shield is great... You mean it's not?? She's only been in a couple of months - might consider that fortunate unless there is a minimum length of time you gotta buy it.

 

[Ed Yez]

I remember how many of the Dodge Caravans from the late 80's early 90s you used to see smoking... No connection to the current/more recent line of products other than name I imagine.

Ahh, the old Mitsubishi 3.0 V6. I've replaced many a valve stem seal on those!

 

[poconojoe]

My neighbor had a Hemi Ram for a few years that ticked. He'd start it up, let it run for as long as it took him to move his hand from the key to the shifter, and go ticking off down the road every morning. Don't know the year. He's got a Ford diesel now and lets it warm up about the same amount.

I remember how many of the Dodge Caravans from the late 80's early 90s you used to see smoking... No connection to the current/more recent line of products other than name I imagine.

But Ice T says Car Shield is great... You mean it's not?? She's only been in a couple of months - might consider that fortunate unless there is a minimum length of time you gotta buy it.

Every time I see Ice T on that commercial I say to myself "yeah, sure, he uses Car Shield " I don't believe that for a second.