Project Fuggly - No Longer Fuggly And Splashed!!!!!!

[archbuilder]

correct the 300 was a Ford. An LS would be cool, but I don't think that swap is in the budget lol! I am guessing the 6 will be enough brain damage for me!

 

[mickyryan]

well like you say they have so many cool aftermarket parts for those 6, that you could build a really sweet 6 and that would look cool as well

 

[archbuilder]

I don't want to go crazy with it, just see if we can get some more good torque out of it. The 6 are good at that, and that is really what you need for a cruiser, which is what I want to do with this one. I also want to keep the fuel economy reasonable for a carburetor motor. I have toyed with the idea of putting a qudrajet on it, the manifold will accept one. That might be the best of both worlds, small primaries to cruise on, and big secondaries for when you need them.

I did get the engine out, nothing exciting, but i guess I should get a pic lol. I want to drain the oil and pull the valve cover and oil pan over the long weekend to start poking around to see what i can see. I may wait to tear it all the way down, I promised a friend I would do some welding for him in the next week or so....which will mean lots of grinding in the shop. I figure I can always put the pan an cover back on after poking around. Once I get the welding done I can break it down and get started.

 

[archbuilder]

I looked up the casting numbers on the block tonight, I didn't learn a lot other than it is a 250 for sure, which is what it should be. The number was produced between 66 to 84 for Chevy, Buick, Pontiac and Olds.....sort of a one size fits all casting. Almost all the other casting numbers were specif to Chevy. Seems like it would make sense that Mercruiser would get one of the one size fits all castings.

 

[mickyryan]

look at it this way , probably a million rebuilt/rebuildable blocks around if they used it for that many years totally agree on 4 bbl for better fuel metering plus if you get a quadrajet it has that cool sound of the black hole vortexes sucking everything in when you punch it

 

[archbuilder]

I bet there are more than a million Micky, they made them like hotcakes! So I drained the oil and cut open the filter tonight. I just changed the oil before I tried starting it up in July. Actually 50$ worth of Amsoil....apparently wasted! It clearly had some water in it, not a lot but some. And it had sparklies.....the two things you don't want in your oil. I wasn't surprised by the sparklies, but the water is just one more downer! I cut open the filter, didn't see anything in the media, but then again I didn't run it very long at all. So over the Turkey day break I will do a little inspecting inside and see what I find out, probably not much that is good ....but that won't be surprising. The good thing is it a good excuse to make more ponies!

 

[mickyryan]

i wonder , look behind water pump that was a spot these engines used to get thin and crack a cylinder wall because the rot ate holes right there, either way im sure a shortblock would be inexpensive , if the head is still good also folks used to over torque head bolts /not chasing threads first and smeggins left in the hole and crack it right at front of block and of course the dreaded leak around a head bolt .

 

[archbuilder]

Thanks for the tips, I am sure it will be interesting to sort out. I wish i would have ran a compression test on it when I first got it now, just curious more than any thing now. Guess we will see what we have once I open it up!

 

[mickyryan]

yeah i love tearing things down just to find out why if not anything else

 

[archbuilder]

Ok so here is the I am tired and dirty cliff notes version. Tore down most of the engine with the exception of the rotating assembly tonight. I am 90% sure I had a bad intake ./ exhaust manifold that pumped water into the exhaust side of the manifold and filled the engine with water. That would explain a lot of things. Anyhow more tomorrow and lots of pics.

 

[archbuilder]

So as I was tearing down the engine last night, I noticed that all of the exhaust ports, on the head, had rust in them.



I started wondering why, then went over to the intake. It had some water in it, I assumed from the water jackets. When I looked inside I realized the interior of the exhaust chamber was wet!


Then I went back over to the head for a closer look.


Yes that is water in one of the exhaust ports! After that I found it in two others, leaving me little doubt that the coolant water is leaking over into the exhaust side for whatever reason. I was to tired last night, but I think sometime today I will pour water in the water jacket side and see what we get. I am willing to bet a lot of water. I went ahead and pulled the head off.

Not surprising I found water in 2 of the 6 cylinders. #2 and #4 I think, anyhow they were nowhere close to each other, so that pretty much eliminates a head or block crack. The engine has defiantly been rebuilt to some degree. There is no ring ridge, and there was defiantly a ink stamp on top of each piston that looked like it said .060. If that is the case this block is junk, since it has some pitting. 60 over would be the max to bore this one out. I am going to check that later today, it was hard to read.....hopefully it said 020.....it was hard to read......but that is probably peeing in the wind! The head looked good other than the rust in the exhaust ports, wondering what the seats look like. I think it also might be the big valve head, which would be nice if I can reuse it.

I looked at intakes last night, that looks like 700 or 800$ for an aftermarket. The I thought I probably need to get the j-bend too, that tacks on $150 or so.

So the water explains why it didn't turn over well, it was hydro locked. I am guessing I trashed a bearing, and or bent a rod, need to look at that. I think I will take the rotating assembly apart tonight. It still doesn't explain why the filter I had when I took it out on the lake had bearing material in it. The motor also seemed really sluggish and had some blow-by. I am kind of wondering if I had the leak, just not as bad. Maybe some water was getting into the engine, creating steam and causing higher cylinder pressures that slipped by the rings? That would also put a lot of wear on the rod bearings? I don't know, maybe they are just unrelated problems.

At this point it looks like I'll finish tearing it down, see what we can salvage. From there it is spending some $$$ and putting it back together, hopefully with more HP and torque!

If anyone has any other thought or theories, feel free to post them. I think I am on the right track but maybe totally off.

Happy Thanksgivings!

 

[chevymaher]

Take the head off take the valves out, Look in the passages for rust and cracks. That may have been head material in the filter. I had it happen to a 4.3.

 

[archbuilder]

Thanks Chevy, I will for sure be pulling out the valves. I will have it vatted an magnafluxed it it look salvageable. The stuff in the filter wasn't magnetic, so that is what is leading me to think it is babbet from one of the bearings. But we will find out tonight when I pull the pistons and crank.

 

[archbuilder]

Ok so it looks like the motor is 40ish over, I checked it with calipers.....but it has defiantly been bored more than 20 or 30. I guess there is an outside shot that it could clean up at 60, assuming it isn't already and my calipers are off that much. That wouldn't surprise me, I need to get an inside micrometer from a machinist friend and check if for real.

My eyeball gauge needs some work, I have the small valves in the head, not the big ones.

And I found a pin hole that was letting water run from the water jacket in the manifold to the exhaust chamber. So that pretty much clears up most of the mystery. I am heading to lunch with family, later this evening I will pull the pistons and crank.

 

[archbuilder]

So I was poking around tonight and figured out Mercruiser did use the 292 in 69 for one year, which would have used this drive.......I am trying to suppress the urged to go find a 292.....the one big drawback is they are taller, which means a hood scoop for the carb on the new doghouse....maybe a reverse cowl?

 

[archbuilder]

Pulled the pistons today, most of the wrist pins are "tight", 5 is really stiff and 6 is more or less locked up. This is not what you want your new piston skirt to look like......think we know where the noise was coming from....


Loading up the block and crank tomorrow and heading to my friends shop to get things measured up. Should have a lot better idea on if the block is an anchor tomorrow. I am more optimistic about the crank....we'll see I guess!

 

[oldrem]

Ouch

 

[archbuilder]

I went by a friends shop today, and he whipped out the Starret inside mirometers. The bad news is it is already bored 60, which I figured it was. The more positive thing that he said he wouldn't be afraid to hone in and put it back together with new pistons. He thought most of the damage would clean up, and he pointed out that it isn't a drag motor. On the flip side he also said these are a dime a dozen, shouldn't be that hard to find a new block and get the machine work done.

I have also pondered the 292 upgrade. I did a little research chasing old parts numbers for the one year Mercruiser used them. It looks doable, but the one big red flag I saw was the water pumps look completely different. I don't know why an automotive pump wouldn't work, the marine ones look about as common as dinosaur teeth. If anyone has any thoughts, let me know.

I I have waffled back and fourth about 10 times today. Let me know what you guys think.

 

[GA_Boater]

Is it time for leftover turkey on waffles with lots of gravy?

Something I seem to remember in another 292 thread is some 292's don't have a boss for front motor mounts like your 6. Maybe someone knows for sure.

 

[archbuilder]

GA, Not having the same boss locations wouldn't surprise me. I don't think it would be too hard to make one if I had too. I did a little more research last night and it sounds like they weigh quite a bit more than the 250. The 250 is around 135# lighter than a small block V8, about #440 the V8 at 575. The 292 comes in at a hefty 561#s, more than 25% heavier than the 250. I was a little surprised at how much more the extra displacement added. Might be worth considering.

I also have a book on the way, its a hot rodders guide to these. Should be a fairly interesting read. I will be curious if there is anything in the book that steers me one way or another.