President Bush's Veterans Day speech

12Footer

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Originally posted by CJY:<br /> It is possible to support the troops and not the war. I support the troops and hope they all come home safely, and in my opinion they are heroes. <br /><br />The war was not a choice made by them, it was made by W. I do not and will not support W. He has done nothing, in my opinion, to deserve my support. The war on terror made much more sense until he stated, "I am not worried about Osama Bin Laden." At that point, I felt his war on terror to be more self serving than anything else. I do remember that Hussein had a price on his father's head. By the way, I think terrorist activities have increased since the "war on terror has begun." <br /><br />Let's fight the war on terror. Let's just find our real threat and terrorism may then begin to decrease.
I'm afraid there are not enough troops or money in the world to do that all at one time. But i will predict other theatres of battle. I will also predict your oposition to every single last one of them.<br /><br />Just like all of these democrats are now fighting against the American war effort.Before the conflict began, this was their 180degree out-of-phase position. Let me know why they are now denying it, and fighting US interests abroad and the war on terror:<br />October 9th, 1999 Letter to President Clinton Signed by Senators Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry -- all Democrats <br />"We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." <br />Joe Biden > August 4, 2002 <br />"This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world, and this is a guy who is in every way possible seeking weapons of mass destruction." <br />Al Gore > December 16, 1998 <br />"f you allow someone like Saddam Hussein to get nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons, how many people is he going to kill with such weapons? He has already demonstrated a willingness to use such weapons..." <br />John Kerry > January 23, 2003 <br />"Without question we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator leading an impressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he's miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. His consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction." <br /> Sandy Berger > February 18, 1998 <br />"He'll use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has 10 times since 1983." <br />Senator Carl Levin > September 19, 2002 <br />"We begin with a common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." <br />Senator Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002 <br />"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock. His missile delivery capability, his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists including Al-Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." <br />Madeleine Albright > November 10, 1999 <br />"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." <br />Robert Byrd > October 3, 2002 <br />"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of '98. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons." <br />Al Gore > September 23, 2002 <br />"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." <br />Joe Biden > August 4, 2002 <br />"I think he has anthrax. I have not seen any evidence that he has smallpox, but you hear them say, Tim (Russert), is the last smallpox outbreak in the world was in Iraq; ergo, he may have a strain." <br />Bill Clinton > December 17, 1998 <br />"Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq.... Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors." <br />Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002 <br />"In the four years since the inspections, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program." <br />**** Gephardt > September 23, 2002 <br />"(I have seen) a large body of intelligence information over a long time that he is working on and has weapons of mass destruction. Before 1991, he was close to a nuclear device. Now, you'll get a debate about whether it's one year away or five years away.
 

txswinner

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Oddjob, Actually not in rear but with ops in corps, but not by choice. however those in rear were not cowards like George W. who would not even serve at home. This is not lies, he never said he served his time with the rules. That makes him not a liar, does not make him someone who should have respect for serving!!<br /><br />then you do the well Clinton did which is pure ignorance onyour part. Clinton was a draft dodger also but this does not make Bush a hero. Also you smart remark about rear is your typical dumb response so for you without a brain, Bite me.
 

txswinner

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Oh yeah Oddjob, Guys in rear in Vietnam were serving just as much as those on the line. Many were injured and killed and taken from their love ones for another war for the rich. you are a real jerk and shortsighted for such stupid remarks, and all of us in front and rear suffered immensely. I can not anyone having any respect for you or your comments after such a sorry unsolicited comment. Obviously you never served anything at all.
 

mattttt25

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

i support the troops, but not how the war is currently running.<br /><br />didn't the senate vote 98-0 on a bill that tells bush he has to report to them on a quarterly basis from now on and explain what he's actually got planned over there?
 

Skinnywater

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

It <br />does <br />not <br />compute.
Well I support the troops. I support them to the extent that they are put into a winning strategy.<br />If the strategy is for any other reason then I'm against any war and want them completely out of the circus.<br /><br />You neo-cons have lost your way and are quickly becoming the blatant examples of those in denial.
 

12Footer

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Originally posted by Skinnywater:<br /> You neo-cons have lost your way and are quickly becoming the blatant examples of those in denial.
So then it is a choice between denial and capitulation regarding the war on terror?<br />So be it. For me, it will be "denial".
 

oddjob

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

TXS.... :D ..A little stink bait makes the bottom feeders hungry, dont ya know!
 

CJY

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

12footer,<br /><br />Rage? You tell me I should not base my opinion on a statement taken out of context. Yet, you take my statement(in the correct context);<br /><br />Originally posted by CJY:<br />"I do not and will not support W. He has done nothing, in my opinion, to deserve my support."<br /><br />and ask me where I get my "rage," all based on my lack of support for W? Please! Spare me the lecture. Propaganda did not influence my decision to dislike W, he did. When first elected, he had my support. Poor decisions and very stupid statements were the cause for my discontinued support. I knew the context with which his statement was first made, and it is a rediculous thing to say, and worse yet to believe. <br /><br />You have posted Democrats' statements of Hussein and his assumed capabilities and perceived desires. So what? What makes you think I was in support of them? You assume I am a Demoacrat due to my non-support for W. I have posted before that I am neither a Dem or rep. I support or do not support issues, not reps or dems. Check the thread dealing with "favorite Presidents," mine was not a democrat.<br /><br />You also assume that I do not believe Hussein should have been removed. You are once again wrong. Hussein never attacked us, and has never been proven to have the capabilities to attack us here. He was a threat to his neighbors, not us. OBL attacked us, thus showing his ability and more importantly, his desire to attack an kill us. We gave him many, many months to hide before going in to look for him. He was of course gone by then. W chose to remove Hussein while stating his lack of concern for OBL. It was such a stupid thing to say, I still have trouble believing it was even said.<br /><br />Bottom line, we have captured a nasty, nasty leader that has not shown an ability to attack us. Another man has shown his ability and desire to attack and kill us. He attacked and killed thousands of innocent citizens on our own land. OBL roams freely with no concern from our leader, W. How wonderful!!!<br /><br />You have also stated several terrorist attacks. You have just helped me make my point that OBL should have been and should continue to be priority number one. How many of those attacks were orchestrated by Hussein? How many were orchestrated by OBL, or his followers? No discredit for anything, just a good understanding of what is happening around us.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

So then it is a choice between denial and capitulation regarding the war on terror?<br />So be it. For me, it will be "denial".<br />
Alright 12, so be it then.<br />But realise supporting bad strategy, passive occupation of a war zone and the hampered ability to agressively attack (or defend)all fronts in a war is just as dangerous to this nation as all that you argue against here.
 

txswinner

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

CyN & Skinny, Things go quiet sometimes when all that be shouted is I love GW. You both make great points, scary part is they are based on the facts and evidence as it clearly exist. Some just hate anyone who can think.
 

lakelivin

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

http://www.factcheck.org/article358.html <br /><br />Anyone interested in some FACTS? Below is a non-partisan summary of the currently known facts of the situation from factcheck.org. Sorry so long, but this seems important. Link to article and sources referenced is above.<br /><br />I think both sides will be surprised to see that there are some points that support their position and others that support the other side. <br /><br /><br />Summary<br /> <br />The President says Democrats in Congress "had access to the same intelligence" he did before the Iraq war, but some Democrats deny it."That was not true," says Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean. "He withheld some intelligence. . . . The intelligence was corrupted."<br /><br />Neither side is giving the whole story in this continuing dispute.<br /><br />The President's main point is correct: the CIA and most other US intelligence agencies believed before the war that Saddam had stocks of biological and chemical weapons, was actively working on nuclear weapons and "probably" would have a nuclear weapon before the end of this decade. That faulty intelligence was shared with Congress – along with multiple mentions of some doubts within the intelligence community – in a formal National Intelligence Estimate just prior to the Senate and House votes to authorize the use of force against Iraq.<br /><br />No hard evidence has surfaced to support claims that Bush somehow manipulated the findings of intelligence analysts. In fact, two bipartisan investigations probed for such evidence and said they found none. So Dean's claim that intelligence was "corrupted" is unsupported.<br /><br />But while official investigators have found no evidence that Bush manipulated intelligence, they never took up the question of whether the President and his top aides manipulated the public , something Bush also denies.<br /><br />In fact, before the war Bush and others often downplayed or omitted any mention of doubts about Saddam's nuclear program. They said Saddam might give chemical, biological or even nuclear weapons to terrorists, although their own intelligence experts said that was unlikely. Bush also repeatedly claimed Iraq had trained al Qaeda terrorists in the use of poison gas, a story doubted at the time by Pentagon intelligence analysts. The claim later was called a lie by the al Qaeda detainee who originally told it to his US interrogators.<br /><br />Analysis<br /><br />The latest round of this continuing partisan dispute started Nov. 11, when Bush said in a Veterans' Day speech:<br /><br />Bush: While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began. Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.<br /><br />They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein. They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing his development and possession of weapons of mass destruction. . . . That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power.<br /><br />What Was Congress Told?<br /><br />The intelligence to which Bush refers is contained in a top-secret document that was made available to all members of Congress in October 2002, days before the House and Senate voted to authorize Bush to use force in Iraq. This so-called National Intelligence Estimate was supposed to be the combined US intelligence community's "most authoritative written judgment concerning a specific national security issue," according to the Senate Intelligence Committee. The report was titled "Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction."<br /><br />Though most of the document remains classified, the "Key Judgments" section and some other paragraphs were cleared and released publicly in July, 2003. The most recent and complete version available to the public can be read on the website of George Washington University's National Security Archive, which got it from the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act.<br /><br />The NIE as declassified and released by the CIA says pretty much what Bush and his aides were saying publicly about Iraq's weapons - nearly all of which turned out to be wrong:<br /><br />CIA Release of NIE, October 2002: We judge that Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions. If left unchecked it probably will have a nuclear weapon within this decade.<br /><br />Chemical Weapons: The CIA document expressed no doubt that Iraq had large stocks of chemical weapons. "We assess that Baghdad has begun renewed production of mustard, sarin, GF (cyclosarin), and VX," it said. "Saddam probably has stocked at least 100 metric tons (MT) and possibly as much as 500 MT of CW agents – much of it added in the last year." ("CW" refers to "chemical warfare" agents.)<br /><br />Biological Weapons: The document also said "we judge" that Iraq had an even bigger germ-warfare program than before the first Gulf War in 1991. "We judge Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating BW agents and is capable of quickly producing and weaponizing a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers, and covert operatives," the report said. ("BW" refers to "biological warfare.")<br /><br />Nuclear Weapons: The document also said "most" US intelligence agencies believed that some high-strength aluminum tubes that Iraq had purchased were intended for use in centrifuge rotors used to enrich uranium, and were "compelling evidence" that Saddam had put his nuclear weapons program back together.<br /><br />On the matter of the tubes, however, the report noted that there was some dissent within the intelligence community. Members of Congress could have read on page 6 of the report that the Department of Energy "assesses that the tubes are probably not" part of a nuclear program.<br /><br />Some news reports have said this caveat was "buried" deeply in the 92-page report, but this is not so. The "Key Judgments" section begins on page 5, and disagreements by the Department of Energy and also the State Department are noted on pages 5,6,8 and 9, in addition to a reference on page 84.<br /><br />Though much has been made recently of doubts about the tubes, it should be noted that even the Department of Energy's experts believed Iraq did have an active nuclear program, despite their conclusion that the tubes were not part of it. Even the DOE doubters thought Saddam was working on a nuclear bomb.<br /><br />Connection to terrorism.<br /><br />On one important point the National Intelligence Estimate offered little support for Bush's case for war, however. That was the likelihood that Saddam would give chemical or biological weapons to terrorists for use against the US.<br /><br />Al Qaeda: The intelligence estimate said that – if attacked and "if sufficiently desperate" – Saddam might turn to al Qaeda to carry out an attack against the US with chemical or biological weapons. "He might decide that the extreme step of assisting the Islamist terrorist in conducting a CBW attack against the United States would be his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him," the NIE said.<br /><br />The report assigned "low confidence" to this finding, however, while assigning "high confidence" to the findings that Iraq had active chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs, and "moderate confidence" that Iraq could have a nuclear weapon as early as 2007 to 2009.<br /><br />That was the intelligence available to Congress when the House passed the Iraq resolution Oct. 10, 2002 by a vote of 296-133. The Senate passed it in the wee hours of Oct. 11, by a vote of 77-23. A total of 81 Democrats in the House and 29 Democrats in the Senate supported the resolution, including some who now are saying Bush misled them.<br /><br />A point worth noting is that few in Congress actually studied the intelligence before voting. The Washington Post reported: "The lawmakers are partly to blame for their ignorance. Congress was entitled to view the 92-page National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq before the October 2002 vote. But . . . no more than six senators and a handful of House members read beyond the five-page executive summary."<br /><br />"Corrupted" Intelligence?<br /><br />On all key points, of course, that National Intelligence Estimate turned out to be wrong. No stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons have been found, nor any evidence that Saddam had an active program to enrich uranium or make nuclear weapons. The aluminum tubes turned out to be for use in Iraqi rockets, just as the Department of Energy experts had argued.<br /><br />That has led to claims that intelligence was deliberately slanted to justify the war in Iraq. On NBC's Meet the Press Nov. 13, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said the intelligence given to Congress was "corrupted" and that Bush withheld information.<br /><br />Dean: The intelligence was corrupted, not just because of the incompetence of the CIA; it was corrupted because it was being changed around before it was presented to Congress . Stuff was taken out and not presented. All of this business about weapons of mass destruction, there was significant and substantial evidence . . . that said, "There is a strong body of opinion that says they don't have a nuclear program, nor do they have weapons of mass destruction." And that intelligence was not given to the Congress of the United States.<br /><br />NBC's Tim Russert: It was in the National Intelligence Estimate, as a caveat by the State Department.<br /><br />Dean: It was, a very small one, but the actual caveat that the White House got were (sic) much, much greater. And the deputy to Colin Powell, Lawrence Wilkerson, just said so. He just came out and said so.<br /><br />On this point Dean is incorrect . Wilkerson, who was State Department chief of staff during Bush's first term, actually said there was an "overwhelming" consensus within the intelligence community. He said the State Department dissented only regarding a nuclear program, not about whether Saddam possessed chemical and biological weapons.<br /><br />Wilkerson, Oct. 19, 2005: And people say, well, INR (the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research) dissented. That's a bunch of bull. INR dissented that the nuclear program was up and running. That's all INR dissented on. They were right there with the chems and the bios.<br /><br />. . . The consensus of the intelligence community was overwhelming. I can still hear (CIA Director) George Tenet telling me, and telling my boss (Colin Powell) in the bowels of the CIA, that the information we were delivering . . . (He) was convinced that what we were presented was accurate. <br /><br />Wilkerson, it should be noted, is no apologist for Bush. This excerpt comes from the same speech in which Wilkerson went public with a well-publicized complaint that decisions leading up to the war were made by a "cabal" between Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and "a President who is not versed in international relations and not too much interested in them either."<br /><br />Previously, two bipartisan commissions investigated and found no evidence of political manipulation of intelligence.<br /><br />In 2004 the Senate Intelligence Committee said, in a report adopted unanimously by both Republican and Democratic members:<br /><br />Senate Intelligence Committee: The Committee did not find any evidence that intelligence analysts changed their judgments as a result of political pressure, altered or produced intelligence products to conform with Administration policy, or that anyone even attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to do so. When asked whether analysts were pressured in any way to alter their assessments or make their judgments conform with Administration policies on Iraq’s WMD programs, not a single analyst answered “yes.” (p273)<br /><br />A later bipartisan commission, co-chaired by Republican appeals-court judge Laurence Silberman and a Democratic former governor and senator from Virginia, Charles Robb, issued a report in March, 2005 saying:<br /><br />Silberman-Robb Report: These (intelligence) errors stem from poor tradecraft and poor management. The Commission found no evidence of political pressure to influence the Intelligence Community's pre-war assessments of Iraq's weapons programs. As we discuss in detail in the body of our report, analysts universally asserted that in no instance did political pressure cause them to skew or alter any of their analytical judgments. We conclude that it was the paucity of intelligence and poor analytical tradecraft, rather than political pressure, that produced the inaccurate pre-war intelligence assessments.<br /><br />Although the Silberman-Robb commission was appointed by President Bush, it included prominent Democrats and Republican Sen. John McCain, whom Bush defeated for the Republican presidential nomination in 2000.<br /><br />Misleading the Public?<br /><br />Neither the Senate Intelligence Committee nor the Silberman-Robb commission considered how Bush and his top aides used the intelligence that was given to them, or whether they misled the public. The Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to take that up in "phase two" of its investigation – and there's plenty to investigate.<br /><br />Vice President Cheney, for example, said this on NBC's Meet the Press barely a month before Congress voted to authorize force:<br /><br />Cheney, Sept. 8, 2002: But we do know, with absolute certainty, that he (Saddam) is using his procurement system to acquire the equipment he needs in order to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon.<br /><br />As we've seen, that was wrong. Department of Energy and State Department intelligence analysts did not agree with the Vice President's claim, which turned out to be false. Cheney may have felt "absolute certainty" in his own mind, but that certainty wasn't true of the entire intelligence community, as his use of the word "we" implied.<br /><br />Similarly, the President himself said this in a speech to the nation, just three days before the House vote to authorize force:<br /><br />Bush, Oct. 7, 2002: We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases . And we know that after September the 11th, Saddam Hussein's regime gleefully celebrated the terrorist attacks on America.<br /><br />Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints.<br /><br />That statement is open to challenge on two grounds. For one thing, as we've seen, the intelligence community was reporting to Bush and Congress that they thought it unlikely that Saddam would give chemical or biological weapons to terrorists – and only "if sufficiently desperate" and as a "last chance to exact revenge" for the very attack that Bush was then advocating.<br /><br />Furthermore, the claim that Iraq had trained al Qaeda in the use of poison gas turned out to be false, and some in the intelligence community were expressing doubts about it at the time Bush spoke. It was based on statements by a senior trainer for al Qaeda who had been captured in Afghanistan. The detainee, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, took back his story in 2004 and the CIA withdrew all claims based on it. But even at the time Bush spoke, Pentagon intelligence analysts said it was likely al-Libi was lying.<br /><br />According to newly declassified documents, the Defense Intelligence Agency said in February 2002 – seven months before Bush's speech – "it is . . . likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers. Ibn al-Shaykh has been undergoing debriefs for several weeks and may be describing scenarios to the debriefers that he knows will retain their interest. . . . Saddam’s regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements. Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control." The DIA's doubts were revealed Nov. 6 in newly declassified documents made public by Democratic Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, a member of the Intelligence Committee.<br /><br />Whether or not Bush was aware of the Pentagon's doubts is not yet clear.
 

jimonica

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Lakelivin,<br /><br />At first glance one lie stands out right away.<br />In this intelligence document the Bush administration say the "aluminum tubes are probably not part of a nuclear weapon program".<br /><br />Bush and Colin Powell went in front of the American people and the whole world and said the aluminum tubes could only be used for nuclear weapons.<br /><br />Also, Fact Check says there is no proof of pressure put on the CIA by administration officials. Here again they missed the boat.<br />Richard Cheney was down there visiting CIA analyst sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. This was totally unrepresented. <br /><br />Richard Kerr, a former deputy director of central intelligence, said in 2003 that there was "significant pressure on the intelligence community to find evidence that supported a connection" between Iraq and Al Qaeda. The C.I.A. ombudsman told the Senate Intelligence Committee that the administration's "hammering" on Iraq intelligence was harder than he had seen in his 32 years at the agency.<br /><br />Now I have a lot of respect for Fact Check .org.<br />But if they missed this I'm wondering how many other points they missed.<br /><br />I don't have time right now, but I'm going to look at this document from Fact Check a little more careful and see if there is any other dicrepencies.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Originally posted by CJY:<br /> It is possible to support the troops and not the war. I support the troops and hope they all come home safely, and in my opinion they are heroes. <br /><br />The war was not a choice made by them, it was made by W. I do not and will not support W. He has done nothing, in my opinion, to deserve my support. The war on terror made much more sense until he stated, "I am not worried about Osama Bin Laden." At that point, I felt his war on terror to be more self serving than anything else. I do remember that Hussein had a price on his father's head. By the way, I think terrorist activities have increased since the "war on terror has begun." <br /><br />Let's fight the war on terror. Let's just find our real threat and terrorism may then begin to decrease.
Not that it matters to the lead-me-around-by -the-nose-because-I-can't-think-for-myself members on here, CJY I couldn't have said this better myself.<br /><br />I support the troops. I want them to come home, alive and well. I want them to come home soon. I want them to have what they need to do the job baby bush bungled them into. This should include body armor, and properly armored vehicles. This should include adequate numbers of troops. This should include troops, under military command doing all military related duties in Iraq, not private sector, politically connected firms providing security (isn't that an activitiy the military should be providing? Or will we be hiring out national security too?) and other essential services. But then again, military actions don't secure political campaign donations like making corporations richer. I think(something the locksteppers of the redumblican party can't do) that the military should be entrusted to know what they need and need to do, after all they are there fighting the battle. Can't say that for our never-saw-combat, didn't-always-report-for-duty president(idiot-in-chief). Instead of playing army-men with real lives, perhaps baby bush should pull his head out of coporate America's rear end and do the job of Commander-In-Chief. And that includes accepting responsibility for the gains, victories, and the failures of that command. Unfortunately baby bush can't/won't accept any responsibility for failure.<br /><br />I support our troops, after all they are valiantly doing the job this country asked them to do, the job baby bush condemned them to do. I do not support baby bush, just like over 60% of Americans. This does not make me unpatriotic. I want our troops to be properly staffed, equipped and authorized to accomplish the job they are there to do.<br />This make me practical, demanding, and expecting my government to be accountable. The redumblican has never been accountable to the American public. And the Democratic party hasn't WOW'd me on this point either lately. As of late both parties hav edone very little for the country, instead they have tried to serve themselves exclusively. That is UNPATRIOTIC. And they should be ashamed, as well as all those who rigidly follow the party line instead of thinking for themselves.
 

txswinner

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Oh my, now with more of the truth coming out notice the quiet from the right side, Bush can do no wrong group. They will pop back up with the traditional yeah but Clinton or it would be worse with Gore etc etc.
 

oddjob

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

LOLOLOL....praise be the "TRUTH"!....lol<br /><br />Sorry I be quite while all this truth is just a rollin in...lol
 

12Footer

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> Oh my, now with more of the truth coming out notice the quiet from the right side, Bush can do no wrong group. They will pop back up with the traditional yeah but Clinton or it would be worse with Gore etc etc.
Being one of those you are refering to, i can say it is pointless to agrgue past the truth in the first place. <br /><br />I stated my peace already, and gave you vettable proof and quoted those hypoctrites on the left in the greatest detail within my ability.<br />None of it was made-up propaganda, unlike the "bush lied" song you lefties like to sing so often. I made my point, stated fact, and if there are any questions, ask, and i will provide any and all documentation to back-up those facts.<br />And that's basically that. It's up to you to believe it or not, and outside of that, it becomes whipping a dead horse.<br /><br />Unlike the truth, no matter how many times you repeat the same spin from the age-old liberal machine, playbook, or celebrity You, Murtha, Sheehan or Sheen, any and all the accompliceses in the Hollywood and big media, cannot rewrite history carte blanche any more. As Bush stated, it won't werk this time. I for one don't mind you trying like this at every opertunity, as it sheds light on what the left has become. But just don't expect me or anyone else to repeat ourselves ad nauseam. It's pointless.
 

txswinner

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Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

You are correct, it will not work. If we listen we can still hear WMD, we know where they are, Saddam is ready to attack us, we must get him before he attacks us. WMD WMD WMd Wmd wmd. I heard it til I am sick. And I know that their are 2000+ dead Americans because of it and that makes me sick as well.
 

Pogo123

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
177
Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

I just returned from a late breakfast with 7 active duty Marines and 3 of their Fathers before taking one young Marine to the airport to catch his plane home for Thanksgiving.<br /><br />All 7 have been to Iraq or Aphganistan or both and all will deploy there again. All believe in what they are doing.<br /><br />This is not an isolated incident. I see and talk with US Marines on nearly a daily basis, but now I wonder if I should have copied this thread and allowed them to read it.<br /><br />In truth? I'm glad I didn't.
 

ZodFutMk2

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
162
Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Pogo, thanks for having breakfast with the troops.<br /><br />Although this thread has shown some brilliance, utter stupidity and some total lack of respect, it's what makes America, America.<br /><br />I don't like the personal insults. To each their own opinion, no matter how fabulous, flawed or foolish, but name calling doesn't do anything but incite anger and cease good debate.<br /><br />My small observation...our hindsight is guaranteed 100%, although a bit skewed.<br /><br />Today there are claims that FDR knew the Japanese would attempt an attack against the US.<br /><br />Today there is "proof" that the destroyers Maddox and Turner were NOT attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin.<br /><br />And now, there is "proof" that there were no WMD's.<br /><br />So, for the next fifty years, y'all are gonna have to battle this out and then the real "proof" will appear on the Discovery channel.<br /><br />And now, back to your regularly scheduled skermish...news at 11
 

CJY

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,242
Re: President Bush's Veterans Day speech

Pogo,<br /><br />There are no anti-soldier statements here. There are probably as many troops wishing they did not have to fight as there are us wanting them back home.
 
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