President Bush and the illegal aliens

Ralph 123

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

Oh, and I forgot, no instant citizenship for people born here unless the parents are here legally.
 

pjc

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

I fully support your last post Ralph!! Bravo.
 

Homerr

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

AMEN! brother!<br /><br />H.
 

Bassy

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

Great posts you all.<br /> I've done some studying on Immigration due to it being part of 8th grade curriculum and teaching it and this is what I'm wondering:<br />1. Will this change the immigration laws?<br /> There are strict rules allowing certain immigrants under certain categories. Which category will these fall under and will it cut the chances of others who are going through the legal channels?<br />2. If I understand this right this change will document these illegals and let us know where they are and that this will make them a "Temporary worker" for three years. So, what will happen after those three years? :confused: <br /> I think this is a good thing, just not clear how its going to be enforced.<br />Bassy
 

Skinnywater

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

A good indication of enforcement and laws Bassy has already been demonstrated.<br />The law and enforcement has been completely ignored.<br /><br />The point has been made that GW has at least addressed the issue.<br />It doesn't require "nads" to take the easy way out.<br />Here is another example of politicians representing themselves over legal citizens they are suppose to represent.<br />Here, I've been told to take a third seat in representation. First seat given to the politician and second to a citizen of a Foriegn Country that is here illegally.<br /><br />Sad fact is, both political partys are very willing to ignore thier responsibilities, our laws and thier constituents.<br />Irresponsibility isn't any easier to swallow just because it comes from a Republican.
 

boatingfool

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

This decision completely Pi$$es me off!!!!<br /><br />Bush would loose my vote in a heartbeat if it wasnt for the current condition of world events.<br /><br />I think it is critical to have a Republican in office right now who is willing to stand up and fight.<br /><br />Not run and hide and wait for the next attack.<br /><br />I have to weigh the evils here.<br /><br />Would it be worse to have Bush in office giving rights to illegals and aggressively fight the war.<br />or have a democrat who would put his head in the sand.<br /><br />Dems are running on the platform of pulling our troops out of Iraq.<br /><br />That is the worse possible thing we could do. Wether you agreed with the war or not, we are there.<br />We can not leave.<br />If you think things are bad now, Pull out of Iraq and see what happens!!<br /><br />Back to the original topic,<br />If the Dems had a stronger plan for the war on Terrorism I might consider Not voting for Bush because of the illegal Immigrant issue.<br /><br />But as long as the Dems want to cut and run I think Bush is the lesser of two evils.
 

pjc

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

Skinnywater, the easy way out has been what prior administrations, as well as State and local governments, have done to date. Lax enforcement of laws by all. Why were some of the 911 actors here for example.<br /><br />Please provide details as to why the politicians are giving consideration to illegals over you. I only see benefits as:<br />*current undocumented will now be documented<br />*current undocumented will now be paying taxes other than sales taxes<br />*the low wage, undesirable to some citizens of US, jobs will still be filled<br />*this segment of US population can provide a better picture of the US population-estimates can be very inaccurate.<br /><br />I can not see any drawback.<br /><br />Ralph posted examples of a solution. I'd welcome any others to post their strategy to manage illegal immigration. We all recognize that strict enforcement of law in place is necessary.<br /><br />But, define strict. I imagine that the Border patrol is doing the best it can. Funding, training, manpower, other resources lacking? Any ideas.<br /><br />I am not aware of any other proposals from other politicians, from either party, prior to this. But surely after an initiative is proposed all kinds of whining comes out some politicians. And some of the general population too.<br /><br />Closing, I believe that Ralphs suggestion as well as Bushs is a he11 of a good start.
 

Homerr

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

I'll flag this one...<br /><br />Round the illegals up and deport them... Shut down and/or severely punish the companies who harbor and hire them.<br /><br />Once they are back where they belong, they can apply for citizenship the legal way.<br /><br />ok, I'll go as far as this: If they can prove from their current employer that they have been productive, and not a burden on society... Maybe they can stay here during the legalization process. if they can't get legalized...go home.<br /><br />Bush's proposal spits on every immigration law and spits on every legal alien that went through the process.<br />The only advantage I see to his plan is for the employers who hire that cheap labor. I don't see any other benefit?<br /><br />Pat... One drawback I can see is the hordes of families that will no doubt come over the border with their newly 'documented worker'.<br />What then? They will apply for welfare, medicare, etc... and then what?<br />I don't know about you, but I've had enough of my taxes going to the deadbeat welfare moms!<br /><br />My 2 cents...<br /><br />Let the flaming and/or arguments begin!<br /><br />H.
 

boatingfool

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

Homerr,<br /><br />Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
 

pjc

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

I sure hope this thread does not flame away. Been a very good dialog so far.<br /><br />Hommerr-very good point in your last paragraph. How should that be addressed, or, fixed??<br /><br />
<br />The only advantage I see to his plan is for the employers who hire that cheap labor. I don't see any other benefit?<br /><br />
Be mindfull that current jobs are already filled. The work is getting done. Wanna pay $7 for a real (like you and I make) wage picked green pepper?????
 

crab bait

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

plus it'll help bush's stats.. jobless rate goin' down.. an thousands & thousands & thousands of new jobs created ,this year. <br /><br />the way i see it.. americans shouldn't have to work.. why should we,, get the 'lesser class ' to do it for us..
 

daveswaves

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

Boy, its a good thing folks did,t think like this when that Italian guy Chris Columbus invented Americans! :p
 

SCO

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

I'm still forming an opinion on this one. Liked that he wants to make it easy to go back to Mexico so they wont feel compelled to stay here. A dollar buys moe there. Also like idea that if Mexico's economy improved, les immigration pressure. That doesnt solve prob though of central american immigration, and have to think these methods employed because you cant enforce the current laws, therefore the three year rule has no bite, and a whole new wave will be flocking here. The only thing i can see is that employers might not hire illegally like now. Current assessment, thumbs down but not convinced yet. I'm thinking we need to vote him out if better plan not detailed. Ask the Sioux what they think of unrestrained immigration Davewave (no offence, this is just the counterpoint).
 

boatingfool

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

Boy, its a good thing folks did,t think like this when that Italian guy Chris Columbus invented Americans!
I believe the Native Americans did. ;)
 

daveswaves

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

No offence SCO, I don't take offence, I,M Canadian, we appologise a lot ;) All I,m saying is trace your roots (collectively everyones, not just SCO), at one point in time we were all aliens. The laws were made up afterwards to support the power shift (those in power make the laws). This isn't about aliens illegal or otherwise, this is the human condition. It sucks where I am, it looks good where you are, look out here I come! Mankinds prime drive is to improve his/her lot in spite of adversity. These folks are doing what they can to improve their lot. The civilized society absorbs the impact, changes and grows to accomodate and in the long run is better off. This is the value of diversity, not just selective diversity where you take 6 of them and 4 of them and two of them cause you already have 100.<br />I'm not particularily "pro Bush" but someone is putting good ideas in the mans head. <br />Poor leaders make easy decisions, strong leaders make tough ones.<br /><br />Bassy, 8'th graders are probably the smartest people on the planet, they are young enough to be unjaded, old enough to have an opinion, smart enough to articulate it.....what a great topic for the class. :)
 

Homerr

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

That's an interesting view Crab bait...<br />But now you're talking about slavery in some people's opinion... :eek: <br /><br />Put all the bums and welfare moms to work doing those jobs that we don't want to do... :D <br /><br />Our state had a program (dunno if it's still going) that got the welfare moms to work.<br />They had to do so much, or they'd be cut off assistance. I thought it was working... :confused: <br /><br />H.
 

JGREGORY

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

This is a 2-edge sword. On one hand I agree with everybody that says if they are here illegally then ship them off, On the other hand No one has had the courage to do it. <br /><br />As I understand President Bush’s plan the following things have to occur.<br /><br />1. They (the illegal) have to be in a job. That means to me w/ steady employment. That automatically disqualifies the day laborers. <br />2. It will make all the illegal “nannies” that are being hired by the “uppercrust” a part of the system subject to taxes along with their employers.<br />3. The work permit is good for 3 years renewable for another 3 years then they must leave the country. (fine, as long as we enforce that) <br /><br />This has been an issues swept under the table by both parties. It’s about time someone has addressed this issue. If we ship them out as soon as we find out about them we will be paying $5 for lettuce and higher prices on all other goods that these people bring to market because us soft American feel it’s beneath our dignity to take these low paying , back breaking, long hours a day jobs. <br /><br />However, if we start recognizing that they are here and make a contribution to our society than why not set up some parameters in which they can work and have a little piece of the American Dream. They will now be paying taxes, their employers will now be paying taxes, and maybe it may help with the documentation of foreigners in this country or at least reduce the work load for the INS so that maybe we can make our borders tougher. And I think we can all agree that is a priority today.<br /><br />Ralph made a statement :
Oh, and I forgot, no instant citizenship for people born here unless the parents are here legally.
To which I agree with 100% and this goes for those that we are going to give work visa’s to. They do not get 6 years to pop out a kid who becomes a citizen so they can use that as an excuse to apply for citzenship.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

Please provide details as to why the politicians are giving consideration to illegals over you.
Specific to this request: <br />The President has never told me that if I fail to pay my income taxes or trespass on my nieghbors property, that he will offer me a much better life. On the contrary, it's been made clear to me that if I violate the law of the land, I will have to pay a consequence. <br />The state of California has been pleading with the Federal government to help with the flow of illegals into this state. It has a direct effect on this states economy. The burden has been put to it to house, feed, educate and mend the illegal.As well as the burden on infrastucture.<br /> This is an equally important consideration. The supply of cheap labor is only cheap to the employers of that labor. This cheap labor is very expensive to the TAX PAYER! <br />It's doubtful that California would be in the hole for the billions it is, if it wasn't for the illegal.<br /><br />
I only see benefits as:<br />*current undocumented will now be documented<br />*current undocumented will now be paying taxes other than sales taxes<br />*the low wage, undesirable to some citizens of US, jobs will still be filled<br />*this segment of US population can provide a better picture of the US population-estimates can be very inaccurate.
Here your making the assumption that a person that is doing very well with the status quo would now want to have taxes, SSI, SDI taken from his check. <br />If the Feds were unwilling to enforce laws before why would the illegal think they would enforce a more laxed program?<br />Since the one act of enforcement of the border was said to be to difficult and expensive. It's logical to assume the multi tasking of documenting, maintaining, monitoring, educating, teaching, housing, healing, and otherwise providing for 8-12 million (with millions more on thier way), will be an expense monumental in comparison!<br /><br />One final point. <br />Many here aren't taking into account that many who cross the border with a Mexican National is from all over Central and South America. Cooperation from a nieghbor country is much different then a total loss of control from several of many.<br /><br />And just to clarify. If I were born south of the border, I'm dang sure positive I'd be an illegal alien. <br />My stance is firmly on the illegality, hypocracy and the clear election year pandering that is taking place by my Presidente.<br /><br />!Buenos noches mi amigos y gracias!
 

Skinnywater

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

boatingfool said:<br />
But as long as the Dems want to cut and run I think Bush is the lesser of two evils.<br />
I agree boatingfool. <br />I'm just so sick of having that single choice all the time.
 

mattttt25

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Re: President Bush and the illegal aliens

i'll be the first to admit that i don't know nearly enough about the topic to even form an opinion. i'm sure the president's advisors looked at both sides and made an informed decision.<br /><br />i'd also like jb to come back and tell us all what he knows.
 
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