Popular Mechanics 1962 PM38 Build [SPLASHED 2017]

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
Ok, so I am still fighting with the outboard idle problem and am suspecting something wrong with the ignition system. I have some troubleshooting steps I need to run through to measure resistance on various components. I also need to measure the pulses. For that I need a DVA for my multimeter. Not a terribly expensive device but I'm not so sure I would need one again after this. So after googling for some ideas, out came the soldering iron.
DVA_Adapter.jpg

This should handle up to about 450 volts. I'm curious to see what I find. I'll have to 3D print me an enclosure for it.
 

gomopar440

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
281
Looks good so far.:cool:

I believe The enclosure used for the DVA I built came from Digikey. It was only a couple bucks and IIRC the shipping cost more than the part. I made mine as small as I could so it would take up less room in my tool box. However, if I had a 3d printer, I would have made my own enclosure as well.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
Looks good so far.:cool:

I believe The enclosure used for the DVA I built came from Digikey. It was only a couple bucks and IIRC the shipping cost more than the part. I made mine as small as I could so it would take up less room in my tool box. However, if I had a 3d printer, I would have made my own enclosure as well.

That's usually the problem. Shipping usually at least doubles the cost for something small like that. I have some of these prototype PCBs laying around so I just built it on one. I used to have a box the size I'd need but I must have used it for something else. I got me a Monoprice Maker Select 3D v2 earlier this year. They are pretty affordable now and can print 200x200x185mm.

I'm amazed how simple these DVAs can be. Do you remember the rating you used on the capacitor in yours?
 

gomopar440

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
281
I don't remember exactly, but I believe it was either 440 or 450 volts. The enclosure I used was a Hammond 1551G.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
I don't remember exactly, but I believe it was either 440 or 450 volts. The enclosure I used was a Hammond 1551G.

Ok, probably a 450v, that's what I used as well. Figured I'd get as high a rating as I could find. :lol: Hammond make nice enclosures and that 1551G looks nice. Btw this circuit worked like a charm.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
I finally got to doing some measuring on the outboard. I used steps in CDI's guide for 1979-1996 Mercury's with the 114-7452A3 switch box. That seems to be the one on my motor.

In the steps they list both the OEM and the CDI resistance values you should find between the trigger wires (brown/yellow and brown/white). The OEM range is 750-1400 ohms and mine reads 789 ohms. So that seems to check out. Next, the voltage across those wires when cranking the engine should be 4+ volts. Mine reads just over 6 volts, so that seems to check out as well.

What puzzles me a bit is that the resistance should be infinite (open circuit) between each of the trigger wires to engine ground. I measure about 2Megohms and it increases slowly if I keep the meter connected. I'm not sure what that could indicate? A bad trigger or switchbox?

Another test says that I should have 150+ volts on the green wires to the ignition coils. It doesn't specify if it should be to engine ground or the trigger wires. If I measure from ground to each green wire I only get around 9 volts. If I measure from either trigger wire I get 110 volts on one and 98 volts on the other green wire. I don't have a load resistor so I can't test with the ignition coils disconnected. Based on the voltage to the coils being below 150v, I either have two bad ignition coils, or a bad switch box?

I posted this in the Mercury forum several days ago and haven't gotten any responses so I figured I'd post it here as well to see if any of y'all have any ideas.
 

archbuilder

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,697
You might call CDI, they were pretty helpful when I talked to them. I would guess its the switch boxes, I changed the two on mine and it made a world of difference.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
You might call CDI, they were pretty helpful when I talked to them. I would guess its the switch boxes, I changed the two on mine and it made a world of difference.

Hey Arch, I thought I remembered someone saying they'd had switch box problems. Thanks for your reply and advice.

Turns out I now have a couple more things to test. Hopefully I can get to it tonight. It seems it could be a bad stator as well since the issue appears to go away above 2800 rpm. So the low-rpm winding may be bad while the high-rpm winding is good. Otherwise it does seem like a bad switch box.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
Ok, so I am still fighting with the outboard idle problem and am suspecting something wrong with the ignition system. I have some troubleshooting steps I need to run through to measure resistance on various components. I also need to measure the pulses. For that I need a DVA for my multimeter. Not a terribly expensive device but I'm not so sure I would need one again after this. So after googling for some ideas, out came the soldering iron.
DVA_Box_scaled.JPG

Just had to share... :facepalm::madgrin::nerd:
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
Hey Arch, I thought I remembered someone saying they'd had switch box problems. Thanks for your reply and advice.

Turns out I now have a couple more things to test. Hopefully I can get to it tonight. It seems it could be a bad stator as well since the issue appears to go away above 2800 rpm. So the low-rpm winding may be bad while the high-rpm winding is good. Otherwise it does seem like a bad switch box.

Alright, with CDI's help we narrowed it down to the switch box as the most likely culprit. I have ordered one and can't wait to swap it out!
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
Alright, with CDI's help we narrowed it down to the switch box as the most likely culprit. I have ordered one and can't wait to swap it out!

Ok, so I got the new switch box and am in the process of installing it. Turns out, the old box doesn't have the black wire coming out of it. The new one does and it is the right part. So I'm wondering if it should just go to engine ground? archbuilder, were your boxes 114-7452A3 boxes?
 

archbuilder

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,697
It has been so long I really don't recall. Did you get CDI boxes? If so you might call them. I think I ended up getting Sierra because my local parts store had them and they were a bit cheaper. I want to say I just carefully swapped out wires and don't recall anything like that.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
Well, the good news is that the new switch box is working. The bad news is, it didn't solve my problem. :facepalm::grumpy::embarassed:
I guess I'm not cut out to be a mechanic...
 

archbuilder

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,697
Have you cleaned up the carbs? I can't remember if you have tinkered with the fuel system.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
Have you cleaned up the carbs? I can't remember if you have tinkered with the fuel system.

Yeah, I did that last summer. I have also had the reeds out and replaced the gaskets and seals around those. And a new fuel filter. The line from the tank I bought new when I got the motor so it should still be ok I would think.

The symptoms now are that it is difficult to start and I have to give it a fair amount of fast-idle. Once it starts, it tends to run as long as I keep fast-idle up. If I drop it the rpm drops and eventually (within 30 seconds usually) it will stall. If I get it to stay running, the rpm doesn't stay constant. It will vary up and down a fair amount from almost stalling to over 1000 rpms. Not very rapidly but perhaps a cycle over 30 seconds to a minute or so. At the higher rpm it sounds alright but when it drops back down it sputters and shudders.

So perhaps I didn't get the carb clean when I worked on it last? Maybe I need to adjust the float? I need to replace the bleeder hoses but I don't know if they could cause symptoms like this? I pinched them while it was running yesterday and didn't notice any difference. They are in place but I've had the ends by the carb break and I had to shorten them a bit. One thing I didn't think of last night was to squeeze the bulb on the fuel line when the rpm dropped. Giving it some choke tends to help a little bit but in adjusting the low-speed needle I can't seem to get it to a good place.

I am using 87 octane gas with ethanol in it. I don't have a station near me with ethanol-free gas. I have put some additives in the tank for it though.

I guess it can't hurt to take the carb off and do a more thorough cleaning. I'll get another gasket set and see if I can work on it this weekend.

Is there anything I'm missing? It feels like I have looked at a lot at this point... But clearly I'm missing something.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
What about the fuel pump? I had a hole in my diaphragm.

The fuel pump is part of the carburettor on mine. The kit I used had a new diaphragm and I replaced it. I do remember the cover being a bit difficult to get back on it though. Wonder if it can pull air in somewhere? Although, wouldn't that affect the high speed too?
 

archbuilder

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,697
You would think. I'm guessing it is something in the fuel system, but just a guess. Mine has a separate fuel pump and the 3 carb setup, so I would just have to play with it. Interesting that the fuel pump is in the carb, never seen that before.
 

pekstrom

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
490
You would think. I'm guessing it is something in the fuel system, but just a guess. Mine has a separate fuel pump and the 3 carb setup, so I would just have to play with it. Interesting that the fuel pump is in the carb, never seen that before.

Mine being a 2-cylinder has just one carburettor, so you'd think that would make it easier. :laugh: This is the parts diagram for the carb, the parts in the lower left portion make up the fuel pump. Seeing that everything seems to check-out now for the ignition I would have to agree. I'll probably do another carb cleaning and then go from there.

Hmm, the link gets mangled. Here it is: https://www.boats.net/catalog/mercu...12-usa-cat-90-90648-2-cyl/carburetor-assembly
 
Last edited:

archbuilder

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,697
Hmmm couldn't get the link to work. One odd ball thing happened to a friend of mine, he had a new fuel hose that had a pin hole on the tank side of the bulb. It didn't leak fuel but let air in the line causing him to loose prime. Long shot but might be another thing to look at. Your tank does have an open vent? Probably not that, just brain storming!
 
Top