Out Of Control Employers (rant)

[jtexas]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

I'm thinkin' like the Chief101 - <br />Some a you guys seem to be confusing "lifestyle" or "physical attributes" with "physically capable of doing the job."<br /><br />The guy who don't fit in the crawl space can't do a job that requires crawling into the crawl space.<br /><br />The guy who threw his cigarette butt into the parking lot lost a customer because he was disrepectful of the customer's property, not because he's a smoker.<br /><br />My employer needs to keep his dang nose outta my personal life; I'll comply with the company dress code, I'll comply with the zero-tolerance policy on tolerance, I'll comply with the prohibition against entering, climbing on, or flying company airplanes without authorization, but my time is my time, and his time is his time, and never the twain shall meet!<br /><br />And the government's got nothing to do with it! Wrongful termination is a civil matter, not criminal - it's up to a jury of his peers. What if he could fire you just because you're father was diabetic, putting you at risk for diabetes, potentially driving up his group insurance expense? Or if he fired everybody upon the birth of their first child as a "group insurance cost control measure."<br /><br />Everybody who said anything along the lines of "it's his business and he can do with it as he pleases" was right - he can do what he pleases with his business. But not with his employees private lives!!!!!

 

[jtexas]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

and another thing:<br /><br />NYminute, what you got against muscular women? Don't knock it till you tried it! <br /><br />

 

[AK_Chappy]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

My take on this whole thing.<br /><br />If he doesn't want you to smoke on company time, that is his rule, obey or quit working there. end of story. <br /><br />If you wish to not smoke on company time, but smoke on your time, so be it. That is out of his control.<br /><br />Drugs are a different deal. You can smoke a cigarette right before you walk in and clock in with no detriment to your mind's workings.<br />Now a joint, or even a brewski is a different matter.<br /><br />Fitness, again he can only control your on duty time. If you are an out of shape person, this means me (round is a shape right?) he could designate a workout period, (paid time), if you decide not to workout, bye bye.<br /><br />AK Chappy

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

Originally posted by AK Chappy:<br /> My take on this whole thing.<br /><br />Drugs are a different deal. You can smoke a cigarette right before you walk in and clock in with no detriment to your mind's workings.<br />Now a joint, or even a brewski is a different matter.

Why would drugs be a different matter? Sure you will be stoned or drunk if you indulge before work, but pot stays in the system for around a month after just 1 puff. Now how is smoking a J when I get off work any different than smoking a cig after work if it's all about what I do on my time? If I drink or smoke after work, I'm not drunk or stoned when I go to work in the morning and clock in. <br /><br />It's all discrimination no matter how you look at it, and thats the part that bugs me. Judge people on how well they work, not on their personal lives. But that'll never happen. Once a freedom is taken away, you never get it back. Ever notice how we, the people, never seem to gain new freedoms, only have ones taken away?

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

JJ, I hear the point about overweight employees<br />no being able to do the same job "physically"<br />due to oversized lardazz, and it makes perfect<br />sense...<br /><br />go apply to UPS, u need to be able to lift boxes<br />up to 50lb as a pre-requisite. part of the job<br />yur hired to do! again, fine.<br /><br />but u is missing the real story here IMO...<br /><br />these are not "potential" employees, they are<br />folks who have worked there for many years, have<br />good work records and proven to be able to do<br />their given jobs well.<br />and, they are just office personnel! not folks<br />dealing with the public. in fact the public NEVER<br />sees them. not like a fatso trying to squeeze into<br />a narrow crawl space... and... they can't smell<br />smoke on their breath over the phone so there goes<br />that defense...<br /><br />look, I smoke and if I worked for u and u told me<br />I couldn't smoke during work hours that would be<br />fair IMO... I would chose to work for you and just<br />not smoke during the day (not that hard), or quit!<br /><br />but... what I do after I'm off the clock is NOYFB and has absolutely no reflection on my work.<br /><br />trust me, this guy will lose and have to pay for<br />wrongful termination!

 

[pjc]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

I do understand that Cheif101. I was pointing to JJs example as pretty specific to his situation. But the gist of what HW is doing is much broader and could affect a whole lotta folks at other employers that do not have the specific job related needs as per JJs example.<br /><br />MY, great post. <br /><br />MrB, drugs are a different deal 'cause they are illegal. And the position could be taken that if you actively take illegal drugs, you may as well choose to engage in other illegal activity that may be a liability to an employer.

 

[11 footer]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

I can understand where this guy is coming from, making someone quit smoking out of the workplace is a bit over the top, though. But othe then that, whats he doing wrong? He's offering to get the fat people help so they can loose weaght, its good for them!<br /><br />My dad has over 30 people working for him, most of them, except maybe the ones he's been with for years and know very well, hvae to go to a lab urine, to be hired, and if there is a prolbem suspected they have to do it. If they are smoking junk, they are warned and get tested again in a mouth, they test positive again they are gone. He's fired many people and not hired many people because of this.<br />Smoking, they can't smoke at work, thats the rule. Those of them who take beaks, sometimes smoke in the parking lot, and he leaves them be, but its a rule and if it becomes a prolbem he'd make them stop.<br /><br />Lets face it, wouldn't you rather have a guy whos in good shape working for you then some fat slob who's always triping over himself? If you hire someone and they are fat, then you want them to loose weaght or get fired, thats wrong. But for the most part, like Jason said, the unless they are sitting at a computer all the time and are unseen by the public, fat guys make a bad impression on the company they are working for.<br /><br />That being said, I think its wrong to tell someone they can't drink or smoke (legal leaves) while they are home.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

Man this thread is too long to keep up with since I haven't been checking in very regularly lately.<br /><br />The old geezer has every right to shoot himself in the foot. Given the choice between being micromanaged and having the edict of government get way too broadly involved in my life, I'll take the micromanagement every time. Because that way I have someone to tell what I think of it. And if the owner thinks dimly of me voicing my opinion then we'll part ways in agreement- that we don't care for each other. I hate being micromanaged.<br /><br />Then the union thing- my local is great but my state unit is completely and utterly corrupt in my opinion. They could not possibly care less whether they represent me or not. Rather, it is their expectation that I will do their bidding or at the least that they will be able to siphon off part of my pay. What crooks! And when I think of the politicians they buy with my money it makes me madder than a hornet. Closed shop, my options are limited. At least I really like my employer. Life is much to short to work where you don't enjoy what you do.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

PJC, 90% of my clientel have arse loads of money. Its not that they have bugs, its that they don't want bugs. Also, there are certain problems pests (Carpenter ants, stinkbugs, etc) that invade a home regardless of cleanliness. A person with a $500,000 home is fairly picky when it comes to the service providers they pay to service their homes. Dirt bags in low rent housing could give a rip what the pest control guy looks like, but they make up a very small percentage of my clientel.<br /><br />MY, I don't personally care if anyone smokes, its their lives, not mine. Unfortunately, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them....

 

[agitator]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

How can "that old geezer" be shooting himself in the foot when his policies are resulting in a healthier work force and less lost time due to sickness? This lowers health care cost in the benefits package for his company resulting in increased profit for him. Research supports this premise all day long.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

Agitator: He'd be shooting himself in the foot, in my estimation, by being a micro-managing & heavy handed employer who most really good employees (smokers or not) will not want to work for for long.<br /><br />I wouldn't wince if tobacco companies all decided to go out of business, I'd applaud! I cannot stand tobacco. I dislike having to subsidize the healthcare of people who want to hurt themselves this way. I would prefer that smokers sign away their rights to government sponsored health care when it comes to lung ailments if they choose to continue smoking. Sorry, but they are doing it to themselves. I have no sympathy for this ridiculous habit. My own father died of lung cancer after having smoked for a number of years (he quit maybe ten years before he died), so I say this with mixed feelings. But this is an area where reason should over rule feelings. We need to all be responsible for our own actions.<br /><br />But we still live in a free country. Reason tells me that if we tolerate the continued encroachment upon our liberty by incremental restrictions, then liberty will soon disappear. So the geezer is free to dictate his policy, the employees are free to become more healthy as well as not tolerate an employer who is telling them how to live when it is not his business to do so.<br /><br />I reserve the right to tell my employer to kiss off any time I choose, and my employer reserves the right to tell me the same. Works for me. I like living in a free country!

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

BP, I hear where your coming from, but if smokers need to sign their right away because they smoke, what about some of the other groups out there?<br /><br />We are paying for their healthcare. They choose to live the way they do, no one makes them, but if they get sick, we have to pay to take care of them.<br /><br />It is a very slippery slope when you start talking about people signing away their rights to healthcare.<br /><br />What about people that are overweight? Should they sign off on it also?

 

[Terry H]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

NYM, I'd rename this thread "Out Of Control Employees". They can't control their eating and smoking habits, they're out of control. Chief

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

SBN,<br />Which other groups? This is not my foremost cause, but I still tend to think it is stupid to reward without limit outright self-destructive behavior. I would suggest that for those unable to pay for assistance in correcting their self-destructive behavior that they might be provided one or two voluntary interventions (upon request)to help them into recovery. Maybe even three. In any case please note that the restriction I suggest is limited to only matters directly related to their self destructiveness done willfully.<br /><br />I'm probably not nearly as heartless as I probably sound, but the reality is the cost of healthcare (& insurance) is spiraling way out of control. Soon no one will be able to afford it if we don't quit trying to do everything imaginable for everyone. There are quality of life issues, too. I for one will not be the one on a respirator for endless months if something happens. If a couple docs and my family all agree that I'm not going to ever recover then they will cease all life support except hydration. Having worked in life support technology I've seen way too many literally rot alive. And for what? I value life as much as ANYONE. There comes a time to let go. <br /><br />We need to plug the leaks to the point where we can keep up with our bailing. Otherwise, a whole lot of people will be left way up the creek way worse than what we're talking about here. Scary stuff, really. I hate to see it rationed, boy, do I. We must stabilize the situation now while we still can, though.

 

[Barlow]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

Bearcat Powered - One quick slightly off topic suggestion.<br /><br />do some research on the economics of tobacco.. specifically the federal reduction of domestic acreages in relationship to improtation increases.. <br /><br />..go back as far as 1920 to present.

 

[muskyone]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

jason i'm a 40 smoker and i resent your statemant i out work and outperform everyone i work with i do a vary phsical job and i put guys half my age that don't smoke and workout in the truck crying by noon

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

What if someone decides to smoke in their bedroom. What you do in your bedroom is nobody's busness or so we have been indoctrinated. <br /><br />Homosexuality will decrease your life statistically far worse than overweight people or even smokers. But they are a protected class. Political correctness is a scurge on our society. If the government supports this position then it is incumbant on them to ban cigarettes, but due to the money they won't. You can't have it both ways.<br /><br />This loser will find his way into the poor house. Of the 20 most dynamic and guiding forces in my company, 18 of them would have to be fired under this morons guidelines. These 20 people are responsible for around 85% of our companies busness. How about MLK who said we should judge a man on the content of his charactor. Has this jerk followed up to find out happened to the families of the people he fired? These self rightous ashole's think because they write a check for less than the performance provided they have a right to dictate peoples lives. <br /><br />What is the difference between this guy and a racist, or a biggot, or a homophobe? They all want to control other people's life choices. Hitler had the same vision.<br /><br />To those who think he has the right to mandate how people live you are way off base. He has the right to fire people for being sick too often,fire people for smoking on his property or during times where the represent his company, but what they do in their private lives cannot be perscribed by anyone. If it is legal and doesn't affect their performance then he has no right stepping in. Higher healthcare bills, charge smokers the difference. This bozo enjoys the security that comes from a national military, police, fire, tax breaks, all paid for by those fat smokers he wishes to exclude. $45 a month for a health club, tax deductable, stop smoking counselors are available for free from a number of organizations. How about a 5 grand commission for being smoke free for one year, or losing 50lbs or more and keeping it off for a year. That would show something other than the self-rightous, single minded dictator that he is. All busnesses are public trusts, and are treated as such with regards to tax structures and tax breaks and public schools training his work force, day care subsidised by the gov. for his employees, how about the welfare his unemployed workers may be recieving, health care from the government for the unemployed, regulation of the food supply to ensure healthy workers, and on and on and on. Fat smokers pay to support him and all he can do is try to socially engineer society into his little vision of utopia. As long as others pay the price to get him there.<br /><br />If he wants to mandate that all male employees must wear dresses to work - fine. If he tells them they have to wear them after work, in church, on their boats, in their homes, then he should be forced to face the same scrutiny in his life. Overweight people and smokers are statistically more likely to have greater problems but not absolutely. FYI, smokers die quickly and cheaply. Should we tax people at a higher rate if one of their parents have alzheimers? Very expensive to care for.

 

[KRS]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

Hey, I have an idea (laced with heavy sarcasm).... let's make smokers pay a tax on their purchase, then the government can use that money to try and educate kids about the health risks associated with tobacco use!<br /><br />Anyone else for it?

 

[RetNav]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

FYI, I saw on the evening news (CBS) where 4 women have taken HW to court on his no smoking policy.

 

[DJ]

Re: Out Of Control Employers (rant)

Hey, I have an idea (laced with heavy sarcasm).... let's make smokers pay a tax on their purchase, then the government can use that money to try and educate kids about the health risks associated with tobacco use!<br />

Already being done, to the tune of 300% of the price of the product.<br /><br />If the government was SERIOUS about banning smoking they would make it ILLEGAL. Not so, it's a tax "cash cow".