No money for teachers or books

[kahuna123]

My daughter complained to the principal that her math teacher wasn't teaching her anything. Just telling the students what lesson needed to be turned in. I have met with all of her teachers. I feel sorry for some of them who really are trying to do the right thing. The rest are educated idiots.

Principal medium income in Spring Hill with Benefits $118,218
Assistant principals medium income in Spring Hill (closest I could find) with benefits is $98,000
Average teacher in Tampa FL with benefits $50,000

Principal
Assistant Principal for Cirriculum
Athletic Director
Assistant Principal for Administration
Assistant Principal for International Baccalaureate Program
Another assistant Principal who on the web page did not specify what he did
At least 5 counselors
At least 3 front office staff
Full time Police officer (with a car)
Full time school nurse
Probably 5 in the lunchroom staff
Janitorial staff
Not counting county support crews for maintenance

27 teachers

Wonder why teachers can't get paid? No money for supplies or books?

 

[greenbush future]

Re: No money for teachers or books

Teacher unions seem to influence the entire system to focus on teacher tenure as opposed to improved learning. IMO the entire system wastes tremendous volumes of tax funds. It leaves the average student in the dust. Several other factors are contributors too, schools seem to be more of day care, than a place to come learn. Many parents are not involved with day to day student activities, many kids are denied a decent home to return to from school. Complicated issue that is recognized by many, seems ripe for serious change if you consider the gross amount of funds we waste currently. We pay way more per student than almost any other country, yet achieve near the bottom results. Kids just get caught in the crossfire IMO.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: No money for teachers or books

Frustrating situation, I would imagine. Perhaps an example of how ' the brass' attracts 'the gold'.

The town next to us spends about 2/3 as much per student as our town does. Both have equally good school systems and track records as measured by various parameters.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: No money for teachers or books

Principal
Assistant Principal for Cirriculum
Athletic Director
Assistant Principal for Administration
Assistant Principal for International Baccalaureate Program
Another assistant Principal who on the web page did not specify what he did
At least 5 counselors
At least 3 front office staff
Full time Police officer (with a car)
Full time school nurse
Probably 5 in the lunchroom staff
Janitorial staff
Not counting county support crews for maintenance

27 teachers

This staffing sounds ridiculous top heavy. How many students are in this building?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: No money for teachers or books

Teacher unions seem to influence the entire system

... and that's the whole problem right there. When you have a unionized work force (read farce) no one has any incentive to do better than the laziest person on the job, the union malaise.

 

[JustJason]

Re: No money for teachers or books

No shop class? Where is the line item for the welder and the lathe?

 

[ziggy]

Re: No money for teachers or books

This staffing sounds ridiculous top heavy.

sounds like university of nebr. lincoln (UNL). i worked for them in the early to mid 90's. in 4 years of employment, i never did figure out who 'all' my bosses were. i was at the bottom, the worker who produced work (support staff in maint dept). i est. that i had at least 10 bosses (likely more) who could tell me what to do. the bureaucracy was overwhelming. and what made me mad was that all i saw them bosses doing was hanging around at there desks, smoking, joking, drinking coffee, or coming around to see that i was doing the work that i was supposed to be doing. imho it was a cluster fXXX.

in contrast, i worked for the ne. dept of corrections for 9 years. it was much more streamlined. i was the worker. i had a assistant maint. supervisor who was my immediate boss. he would actually help me with tasks if needed. then the maint. supervisor. he made the decisions and appeared to do admin work. but at least i saw him doing work. his boss was the warden, his boss was the director of corrections, his boss was the Governor. these were the people who could tell me what to do. it was a clear and concise chain of command and everyone seemed to have dutys, granted i never delt with anyone over dept of corrections director.

i just found it odd that they could be more organized in a prison system than in an educational system. all i could think was that it was plain to me where the priority's of the state were at. and it wasn't education!

... and that's the whole problem right there. When you have a unionized work force (read farce) no one has any incentive to do better than the laziest person on the job, the union malaise

i respectfully disagree. i was in the union at the prison. we had good wages, and good health care that was fought for by the union. at the university. we were not unionized. the health care was more expensive and covered less and i got a several dollar an hour pay cut to go to work for unl. + had to pay to park so i could go to work (that always bummed me out). if i ever become an hourly wage earner again, i hope i find a job that's unionized. i actually did have incentive to work harder at the prison, and it payed off by getting a few good raises over the coarse of time + the union stood behind me when there was conflict between bosses and workers. all i got for hard work at unl was more work + the opportunity to watch the lazy bosses tell me what to do. obviously i still have distaste for unl even after 20 years. i don't feel that way about corrections. i didn't think that would have been how i felt about it when it was all said and done. + corrections is a real crummy environment (max prison) to work at too. that didn't say much for unl imho.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: No money for teachers or books

... and that's the whole problem right there. When you have a unionized work force (read farce) no one has any incentive to do better than the laziest person on the job, the union malaise.

Nope. The union doesn't make people lazy. Lazy people choose to be lazy.

 

[NewfieDan]

Re: No money for teachers or books

Nope. The union doesn't make people lazy. Lazy people choose to be lazy.

I have worked both union and non-union. The union does protect the lazy. I have found that there is very little incentive to do better in union work environments,when compared to similar non-union systems.

However, I work in heavy construction and have very little to do with a work environment like a school system.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: No money for teachers or books

The union does protect the lazy.

Yup, I'll surely agree with that. Unfortunately, the cost of protecting to good people will often include protecting the bad ones too.

I have found that there is very little incentive to do better in union work environments

Well, again, folks who are lazy are pretty much lazy regardless of the incentive - from my experience anyway.

Non union work environments don't automatically make for awesome work forces. Union work environments don't automatically make lazy work forces. Working hard and taking pride in one's work is a personal/individual choice.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No money for teachers or books

I am not a fan of any unions but especially unions like school unions and unions that negotiate with governments. The fact that a union can fund a person's campaign who then in turn set's that union's member's salaries is a huge problem.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: No money for teachers or books

I'm not particularly fond of unions and am not one to really try and argue their usefulness. But..... Suggesting that unions are the major contributor to today's issues in public education is not right.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No money for teachers or books

As soon as they make it illegal for corporations and business to buy campaigns I'd be all for doing it to unions.

I would be fine with that.

I also think that members should be able to tell their unions if they want to opt out if their dues can be used for political purposes or not.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No money for teachers or books

I'm not particularly fond of unions and am not one to really try and argue their usefulness. But..... Suggesting that unions are the major contributor to today's issues in public education is not right.

No, but they keep the best teachers from teaching.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: No money for teachers or books

This is pretty simple....if you want better education for your kids (beyond lip service) then suck it up and put them in private schooling.
Public education is all over the map in terms of performance vs. value.....for a number of reasons.
As for unions, the current model associated with most private sector unions is seriously stuck in the past and out of date. Their positive history and purpose is disappearing and dating itself by many decades now.
As for public service unions....they make the private sector unions look reasonable and yes, they do unknowlingly promote laziness and diminished effort.
The basics of pretty much every Union mantra is nearly the complete opposite of just about any valedictorian speech you will ever here. Fall in line...lock arms, hang on, stick together on one level...maybe 2...grab the pension and run. Imagine saying that to a graduating class of students rather than promoting rising with individual effort and endeavor.

That said, there are some new ways to positively approach and employ a work force that yields way better results for the employer and the employees...however not everyone is embracing them just yet.

BP

 

[rbh]

Re: No money for teachers or books

This staffing sounds ridiculous top heavy. How many students are in this building?

+1
A whole lot of managers and not enough teachers.

 

[lncoop]

Re: No money for teachers or books

Our education system is a mess. The problems are fundamental, systematic and complex and cannot be attributed to any one source. Trying to do so only makes one look silly. There will always be greed, corruption, hubris, laziness and incompetence juxtaposed with dedication, passion, sacrifice and creativity. This is true of schools with and without unions. The single greatest make or break factor in a child's education is whether they have someone like kahuna in their corner advocating for them, motivating them and holding them and their educators accountable. I'm involved in a pretty intense mentoring program for at risk kids. One of the components is a one on one relationship between a volunteer and a student wherein the volunteer actually goes to the school and works directly with the student. The graduation rate for our district is seventy percent. The graduation rate for kids who stay in this program is 100 percent. Without someone demonstrating love and concern it's an uphill battle for a child regardless of the quality (or lack thereof) of the school. Our society needs to focus on what we can do rather than continuing to restate the obvious.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: No money for teachers or books

Well said incoop, spot on man:thumb:

 

[jasoutside]

Re: No money for teachers or books

I'm involved in a pretty intense mentoring program for at risk kids.

....and thank you for your service:encouragement:

 

[rogerwa]

Re: No money for teachers or books

This is a very multifaceted problem with many of the things mentioned as contributors but not sole causes of the problems. In my view, it stems largely from two things..

1) Teachers may know how to teach, but that is a long way from knowing how to administer. Typically the path to administration is up the teaching chain. A school shold be treated as a buisness and administered similarly. It is not done this way today and when there is a gap the look for more money from the taxpayers.

2) The schools are not laser focused on core competencies - Driving instruction is not a core competency for instance. Magnet programs - such as cosmotology - are not core competencies. Educating kids in the basics - core foundation stuff - is the role. Do this and do it well, without politcal slant will bring up the level of unskilled workers with just high school education and to better prepare for secondary. The other stuff is fluff. Also, separate out the other programs - special needs education, etc as separate budget items so this gets the focus it needs. I would rather vote on a referendum because I see that we need to spend more on special ed due to a growing number or something than just throwing money at the district - which is maybe what is wanted..

Tenure is also a problem - justify why this exists. If a teacher is good there is not reason to lay him/her off - I don't think its because of pay.

The problem with the teachers union is that it exists to promote the interests of the teachers and mostly the union and not the the task of educating kids. The union has no skin in the game from a quality perspective just need more dues and more teachers mean more dues.