NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

It may be all volunteer, 12 foot, but many nobly signed up after 9-11 in a patriotic ferver to fight terrorists. Instead they were sent to Iraq to overthrow governments.

The old bait and switch in action!
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

My father joined the Navy in order to "take it to tojo"...
He was sent to "defend" Alaska instead. He served, followed orders, and only biatched about his assignments to his fellow shipmates.

Still, your point is not lost on me, PW. I understand fully the cut-n-run mentality of the left, while I also understand that there are lefty soldiers who serve their country alongside righties. Their sacrifice is no less honored by me, even tho it may be to you.
You guys claim to care about these (and only these) soldiers, while discrediting the mission,and sometimes by even glorifying the enemy, while accusing these same brave souls of TORTURE and other WAR CRIMES... This is also not lost on me. I know the source.
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

Ummm.. it's been well established beyond any reasonable doubt that US soldiers HAVE committed torture and war crimes. It's not just a lefty thing designed to bring down the USA. Even republican congresspeople who saw the Abu Ghraib photos and videos, inlcuding ones that we the general public did NOT see, were appalled. And there have been MANY more incidents since then. What do you expect when the CIC and his whole administration says to the whole world that we don't have to obey international standards for humane treatment of prisoners? His whole administrative philosophy seems to be an exercise in the contempt of the law and due process.

In fact here is the most recent case coming to light as we speak. I almost posted a separate thread about this yesterday, but decided to keep my mouth shut since I would just be accused of stirring up trouble and America-bashing. But since you brought it up, here is the story, brought to you by FOX news among others, which I assume that you see as a credible source.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218181,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/06/iraq/main2070878.shtml

I'm glad to hear that you are not in support of the state reimbursing people for the money they might have made developing their land. It is all the rage out here in the west, with Oregon having passed just such an initiative and now Washington trying to follow suit. It is being pushed hard by so called conservatives and republicans out here.

As far as the draft goes, if we plan to continue the PNAC/neo-con plan of conquering and occupying the world, or even just large parts of it, we are definitely going to need a draft eventually. There's no way that the need for "boots on the ground" will be met indefinitely by volunteers.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

I agree with Woodrat, If you are not smart enough to build a house ABOVE sea level, your investment shouldn't be subsidized by the rest of us. Why is it the governments job to move, house, feed, provide healthcare, get jobs, give free money for girls gone wild videos, to people who would invest in a house below sea level in the face of a storm?

I think there might be some holes in Woodrats ammendment. :%
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

And you could add to that Pointer, that it is not the government's job to maintain that river for shipping traffic either. Why should the state subsidize all that corporate shipping? If ADM and ConAgra and the rest want to keep that shipping channel open they should pay for it themselves, right?

Or is that going a little too far for you? :/
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

No arguement there woodrat, I guess there are some holes in your ammendment.

Note: The waterways are government property. The government doesn't own private homes along the waterway. Well not yet. Do you really think the government dredges the river out of some magnanimous public interest?
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

Well, to me you are talking about similar concepts. Public money spent on private gain. And if the government is indeed going to support shipping through New Orelans, you are probably going to need a city there, too, so that there are port facilities and what not and people to work in them.

I'm not really against maintaining a shipping channel, just trying to point out how quickly people are ready to trash on all those welfare bums for taking government handouts, but we seem to easily overlook the massive government handouts that are routintely given to large corporations every day.

I don't think that the government should necessarily pay to fix up trashed homes that are going to be in harm's way again someday, but I think it is also fair to question whether or not there should be a completely different way of dealing with that waterway and the shipping traffic that depends on it as well. I just never seem to hear the same shrill criticism of the big companies depending on Uncle Sam to maintain a questionable waterway as I do of individual people who want government help repairing their trashed neighborhoods and homes. Why is that?
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

Well not really. If the government was to pay for the barges, the tugs, their maintainance, the crew, feed the crew, their healthcare, fly them home on weekends and provide dirty videos then we would.

Your analogy would be more accurate when referring to cleaning/repaving the streets. If that were the case you wouldn't hear so many complaining. We do that everyday for the rich fatcats and poor alike.

4cxktuh.jpg
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

"Well not really. If the government was to pay for the barges, the tugs, their maintainance, the crew, feed the crew, their healthcare, fly them home on weekends and provide dirty videos then we would."

Umm.. I don't know how the Mississippi River dredging and maintenance works, but out here on the Columbia, that is more or less EXACTLY what the government pays for, minus the dirty movies. And I'm not so sure about the dirty movies..

Are you implying that some portion of maintaining the Mississippi shipping channel and levee systems is done and paid for by someone other than the Army Corps of Engineers?

And by chance do you have some kind of evidence that the US government is paying to make "girls gone wild" movies in NO, or is that just some bit of juicy rhetoric that Rush et al are throwing around?

And is that photo supposed to prove that some welfare cheat got so much dough from FEMA that he went out and bought a RR to park in front of his trailer? More likely-assuming it is even a photo FROM the NO area after katrina- is that it shows that even wealthy people cashed in on free government trailers. Although without knowing the actual story behind it, it doesn't really say or prove anything at all.

As far as the paving the streets analogy goes, we have a massive over-budget program going on in the Columbia right now to not just maintain the shipping channel, but to deepen it by 3 feet for over 100 miles, so that ADM and others can fill their largest ships totally full, thus making a bit more $ on their shipments. Then your analogy would be more like widening and strengthening the roads and bridges so that one or two large users could make more money off of using the road. And no, it's not conservatives who are complaining about that bit of pork. They are silent or cheering it on.
 

crunch

Commander
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
2,844
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

As far as the paving the streets analogy goes, we have a massive over-budget program going on in the Columbia right now to not just maintain the shipping channel, but to deepen it by 3 feet for over 100 miles, so that ADM and others can fill their largest ships totally full, thus making a bit more $ on their shipments. Then your analogy would be more like widening and strengthening the roads and bridges so that one or two large users could make more money off of using the road. And no, it's not conservatives who are complaining about that bit of pork. They are silent or cheering it on.

WR, those of us in the 21st century call that progress. Of course we could just cut out all of that pork, let the river silt up, and go back to shipping by canoe.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

I think you are right. Canoes or nothing. And by the way, no more paving roads, or guard rails, and hollow logs for sewer pipes. Stop support of all airports. Rich people might use them. Then your point would have merit. Class envy can have dangerous consequences. What your massive overbudget project has to do with the fact that the waterways are government property I can't figure. ANYONE CAN USE IT. Giving private citizens hundreds of thousands of dollars to rebuild PRIVATE homes which could have been insured but were not with a GOVERNMENT subsidized program, and now want FREE money for stupidity should rub all people wrong.

We build roads, airports, and yes, shipping canals for everyone, if you want to see it as a perk for the rich, you would be wrong. BTW we build roads to specifications for semi-trailers, and bridges to a fixed height, not to my SUV, but to rich semi drivers, and most of the damage done to the highways, you got it, rich semi owners. Width of the roads, frequently set for rich semi owners.

FEMA cash cards (our money) were used for strippers, girls gone wild videos, tatoos, liquor, illegal drugs, gucci bags, designer clothing, trips to vegas, etc. When I fell on hard times the first thing I did was get a tatoo and a bill blass wallet, not. But you are right, it's Bush's fault.

BTW, it was your ammendment. 8)
 

crunch

Commander
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
2,844
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

Around here if you want to build in a flood plain, have at it.... same for if you want to build right on the beach, you can get insurance and pay through the as..... uhhhhhh... nose.

If the river floods and wipes you out, and you had no insurance?.... think the fed would step in and save your, uhhhh, nose?... is to laugh, we wouldn't even make a 5 second blurb on the news.

Population: 1563
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

"ANYONE CAN USE IT"

No private citizen, not even Bill Gates, needs the channel deepened to 43 feet. There is only one tiny class of users who that benefits, and millions in public money is being spent to satisfy THEM, not the general public. There were economic benefit studies done early on that showed that the government was going to spend more money in dredging than the economic benefit would be to the region. It is simply a giveaway of public money to a small group of corporate users. Neither our survival nor our economic well-being depend on this project. It's not like the shipping channel is unusable the way it is, and I very specifically said that I was not against channel maintenance. So your canoe and hollow log comments are entirely disingenuous and you both know it. If your righteous indignation had any uniformity to it, then you would be not too happy about many millions of public dollars spent on a project with only a tiny handful of beneficiaries, no matter who they were.

If two or three trucking companies decided that they wanted to start hauling around trailers that were 3 feet taller than the existing bridge clearances, and the government stepped in at public expense, without a dime of contribution from the interested trucking companies, to rebuild all the bridges to the new height that this small group of users demanded, I would HOPE that real conservatives would raise a stink. But I guess that is probably hoping for too much, since there are few real conservatives left anymore.

"FEMA cash cards (our money) were used for strippers, girls gone wild videos, tatoos, liquor, illegal drugs, gucci bags, designer clothing, trips to vegas, etc"

And I'm sure a very large sum of public money has been squandered and spent on booze and porn and other unsavory purchases and personal perks by many of the contractors in the Iraq war as well. That happens every time and in every place where government money is flowing freely, and it is almost always a bipartisan event.

I've no doubt that massive sums of public money have been wasted and mis-spent in the aftermath of Katrina by government employees and contractors, and the general public. I just think that the obsession that conservatives have with this particular pork-hole is highly selective and very irrationally and righteously class based.

"think the fed would step in and save your, uhhhh, nose?"

Yeah, I think FEMA would give more or less the same semi-incompetent response to any community who suffered a similar disaster. I don't think that NO got some special treatment because they are all welfare cheats or something. When I lived in the back hills of Northern Cal years ago, there was a huge rain event that wiped out roads and bridges and damaged homes and FEMA had their people wandering around in the hills there giving out grants to those who applied for them, although not many people asked for help. I'm sure Gold Beach would get treated no differently, custom. Again, sounds like class envy to me...


"But you are right, it's Bush's fault."

Ummm.... where did I say that?
 

crunch

Commander
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
2,844
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

Per capita, Gold Beach has losses each year exceeding NO, just from normal weather. We insure and build accordingly.
 

Reel Poor

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
5,522
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

And what does all this BS have to do with the stupid simple logic ammendments to the Bill of Rights that I posted ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

icon_rollwtf.gif
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

What exactly do you mean? "per capita" ? are you saying that every year Gold Beach citizens suffer more damage per capita than NO did in Katrina? That doesn't sound right. I've been through Gold Beach within the last year, and I saw most buildings were standing and in good repair...

Or are you saying that gold beach suffers more "normal weather" damage per capita each year than NO does?

??
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

"And what does all this BS have to do with the stupid simple logic ammendments to the Bill of Rights that I posted ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "

Little to nothing. Is there a rule about that?? :$
 

crunch

Commander
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
2,844
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

Reel said:
And what does all this BS have to do with the stupid simple logic ammendments to the Bill of Rights that I posted ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

icon_rollwtf.gif

uhhh... errr...hummmm.

What was your point? 8)
 

crunch

Commander
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
2,844
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

woodrat said:
What exactly do you mean? "per capita" ? are you saying that every year Gold Beach citizens suffer more damage per capita than NO did in Katrina? That doesn't sound right. I've been through Gold Beach within the last year, and I saw most buildings were standing and in good repair...

Or are you saying that gold beach suffers more "normal weather" damage per capita each year than NO does?

??

Take the total $ lost in Katrina, divided by total population = $ lost per capita.... right?

Last year we lost the roof on the 76 station from high winds.... about $50,000.00 loss. I, and about everyone else in this area lost something and we just replaced it ($500.00 deductible)... call it $500.00 each. (mine was higher)

We also almost lost the roof of the copy center... $10,000.00 to repair (used to be the post office, but they moved)... new post office had windows broken from stuff ripped off boats in storage next door at the port.... the list goes on and on.

I live where it's not uncommon to have 130 MPH winds with 10" of rain in a 24 hr period, sometimes in a heck of a shorter period than that.... for day after day.

We cope, insurance rates are high........ never seen FEMA here yet.
 

Reel Poor

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
5,522
Re: NEW PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION

woodrat said:
Little to nothing. Is there a rule about that??

Nope, no rule, but it's typical of this forum lately. A thread is started with a topic and then the subject
suddenly changes two or three times in the middle of it. They all end up sounding like the thread you read a minute ago.
1.gif


Troll on.
beatdeadhorse5.gif


 
Top