New boat 1967 Holiday 18ft general questions

[Dantana Tin]

This is my first post to the Starmada.

I was wondering if anyone has re-enforced the gunwales on their Starcraft or other aluminum boat. I am the proud owner of a 1967 18' Holiday V. I currently have scotty rod holders installed in the gunwales and they seem kind of flimsy (the gunwales). I thought about using wood underneath them to reinforce it, but not sure if it's a good idea and if so what type of wood would be best.

I have just rebuilt the 1967 little dude trailer that my holiday sits on (wife calls her "the mistress"). I even had to replace the axle due to the inability to replace the (obsolete) hubs. So she has been completely re-wired with new leds all around, spare tire holder, trailer jack wheel, and the fenders stripped and repainted. The boat floor has been removed and I am working from the inside hull out now. I am also going to need to re-wire the rats nest that some would call "boat wiring". I was wondering if someone knows of a good resource for wiring diagrams and wiring.

Also I'm on the lookout for a glove box door for my Holiday as well.

This is slow going since I'm a disabled veteran and something's don't work like they used to. But you just gotta take it on one task at a time. The picture below was how I found her. I hope to have some more pictures up and added soon, if I can figure that out. GA_Boater was awesome in helping me get this far.

Thanks for any help/feedback.

 

[Candutch]

Welcome to the Starmada DT. Nice Holiday you got there. Looking forward to seeing what you have in store for your "mistress".
I don't see an issue using wood as a backer for your rod holders, as long as it isn't pressure treated it should be fine. Best to seal it with epoxy or spar varnish first though.
Personally I am trying to avoid as much wood as possible. Other than the transom and floor I will try to use aluminum, starboard or other non wood materials.

 

[GA_Boater]

Welcome to the Starmada, Dantana. No sweat! We're all here to help.

On the Scotties, plenty of us have used a exterior grade plywood backer for things like rod holders. Just make the backer larger than the holder base to spread the forces. I like to use a few coats of spar varnish to seal and protect the wood.

Glove box doors can be hard to find unless someone remodeled and eliminated the glove box. iboats does have a couple of Attwood complete ones with lock and key. The prices aren't outrageous and Forum members get a 5% discount. The promo code is FORUM5.

We have some generic wiring diagrams somewhere in the forum. I have to look for them, maybe one of the other members has them bookmarked. We'll find them.

What powers the old gal? She appears to be an I/O. I like the lines of Holidays.

As a Starmada member, there is no such thing too many pictures. Just letting you know.

:welcome:

 

[dozerII]

:welcomeT love the lines on the older Holidays, looks like the Mistress is a good candidate to redo. The gunwales seem a little flimzy when you have loose side panels all the rivets are loose. Some 3/16 aluminum plate cut to fit on the underside of the gunwales would be real strong and never rot out. Keep posting picture we are kinda like junkies for them.:biggrin1:

 

[Dantana Tin]

She is an I/O with a 120hp Mercruiser that was rebuilt in 2005. The seats were homemade back to backs and pretty over-sized. (Amazing what you can do with lawn chair cushions and plywood). The gunwales are pretty solid it just seems that there can be allot of give. Now that the floor is removed I was also planning on using gluv it and then applying tuff coat to the inside hull for additional leak protection and sound deadening, any ideas. Is that overkill. I also plan on removing the above deck fuel tank and replacing it with an aluminum belly tank that a buddy had just "laying around".

I found some original pics from when I first picked her up.

Thanks for all the feedback, DT.

 

[jbcurt00]

Yes to the GluvIt

No to the Tuff coat stuff.

Having had the extreme displeasure of removing bedliner type stuff from a tin boat hull, I cant stress NO, DONT Do It nearly enough.

Best of my knowledge, of all the boat builds posted here, none have coated the inside of the hull specifically for noise suppression, and none have complained of too much noise w/out it.

@chemicalwire
Wet willie

Are probably the 2 most active fisherman w builds here. They may have some insight too

 

[Dantana Tin]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I might either price out some aluminum plate for the gunwales to see how it compares to wood. I'm thinking something like poplar. :helpoes anyone have any suggestions or opinions about using either fuses or breakers. I would like to clean things up in the rat's nest department but not sure if I should replace the fuse box or spend the additional money and get a breaker panel.

Speaking of advice, when searching the site I see that some people use closed cell foam and a few have used the chemical two-part pour in foam for under the floor. My concern is if the pour in foam will fill in expand to the point of putting additional strain on the metal and rivets. I have also heard about different options for the floor. I know I can't afford something like starboard, but is there a particular type of plywood (brand, model, classification) that people are going with?

Also does anyone know of someone or somewhere I can go to get a reproduction ID/VIN plate. Mine has been moved and messed with some many times that it is pretty tore up. I currently have it encased in glass like the Declaration of Independence, trying to avoid any further damage to it. :spy:

 

[GA_Boater]

Either wood or aluminum backing will work OK. Large pieces aren't needed. All your are doing with the backer is spreading the load and the entire under side of the gunnel doesn't need reinforced. Just make it larger than the footprint of the Scotties, about a couple of inches will do it.

If the fuse panel is still serviceable, no need to replace it. One advantage of a fuse panel over a circuit breaker panel is the ease of upgrading current ratings. Just change to a higher or lower rated fuse, opposed to replacing a circuit breaker. Less $$$. If the existing fuse panel has the glass tubular fuses, changing it out to a blade fuse panel has it's advantages.

On flotation - While the 2 part pour in foam fills every nook and granny under the deck with slightly more flotation, that is also a disadvantage in tin boats. The expanding foam blocks all water paths to the bilge and traps water between the hull and increasing the possibility of corrosion. Closed cell insulation foam sheets can be arranged so the water passages aren't blocked and reduces trapped water.

Decking - We have a lot of choices. Marine plywood - not the cheapest way to go, but a good, durable solution. Exterior grade plywood is the economy way, but it can have voids in the plies. In the middle and only slightly more than exterior ply is Arauco brand - It has more plies than exterior, few voids and the outer plies are sanded and doesn't have footballs. Arauco is sold as furniture grade, but it uses exterior glue so it's good for inside or out. I got mine at Home Depot and I love it. No matter what you use, it should have a protective coating. Again, several choices for that.

Some guys have had new ID plates made. Somebody should be able to answer that one, I don't know how or where.

 

[Grandad]

In regard to fuses vs breakers, there are trade-offs that might influence your choice depending upon where and how you expect to do your boating. Breakers have mechanisms somewhat like switches with contacts that can develop corrosion and they don't like vibration such as when mounted to a boat transom. It's perceived to be a convenience to be able to simply reset a breaker when it trips, but in actuality, it should trip only when necessary and if it was necessary, just resetting without clearing the fault will still cause it to trip once more. The more a breaker trips, the weaker it's mechanism becomes and the poorer the contact surfaces become.

A fuse must be backed up with spares, but it's workings are brand new and survive well if correctly sized. A cursory inspection usually will reveal any corrosion that can be cleaned from mating fuseholder surfaces relatively easily with basic materials even miles from home. If a breaker doesn't make contact, you're not likely able to fix it, only replace it. You can get fast blow and slow blow fuses for different protective applications. You can carry many spare fuses in a multitude of sizes for the price of one circuit breaker.

In regard to wiring diagrams, I suggest that you develop your own, using simple logic. Diagrams are valuable when you're trying to troubleshoot, so make yourself a set as you develop your wiring. There's nothing more logical than simple electrical wiring, so anyone can sit down with a pencil and draw what's best for their boating needs. If you're unfamiliar with electrical theory, I suggest you make what is called a "ladder" diagram. On the left edge of a sheet of paper draw a vertical line and mark it positive and then draw a similar line down the right edge of the page marking it negative. The positive line represents your main power "bus" ahead of fuses or breakers. The negative could be a negative bus bar to which all negatives are connected "common" to the battery negative terminal.

Next from the positive draw a series of short horizontal lines or "taps" from the vertical line to a fuse symbol, then from each to a switch symbol, then to a device, then to the negative line on the right side. What symbols you use are up to you, as long as they make sense to you. Essentially, you now have rungs of ladder logic for each of the devices you want to control. This gives you a place to ruminate and add info such as wire color, wire size, fuse size, etc. More complexity can be added, such as 2 position switches for navigation and stern lights or horn relays, but you'll have a good start and a good record for troubleshooting later. This type of diagram won't show where to run your wiring, but it does tell you what wiring you need to run between points that are specifically located on your boat.
- Grandad

 

[laurentide]

Instead of reinforcing my gunwales like Grandad did on his boat (you should read his rebuild thread), I made a trolling bar across the stern over the splashwell header. I use downriggers every time out so it's not really a compromise for me. I installed tracks with a plywood backer, and mounted the aluminum c channel on pedestals. It's very strong and there is zero gunwale flex. It also serves to brace the whole hull structure. Just one way to do it:

Edit: the tracks alone may be a good solution for you.

 

[jbcurt00]

Poplar is 1 of the worst choices of wood on a boat.

Use exterior grade plywood, aurauco or marine ply for the rest of the build and you'll have plenty of scrape to cut to fit under the gunwale. Just seal the gunwale reinforcement ply the same as you do the rest.

GarzonStudios produces great looking vinyl replacement capacity plates. Or call atound to engraving, trophy or plaque places locally and ask if they can print on aluminum plates via sublimation.

I had a sublimated then engraved plate made:

 

[Dantana Tin]

Wow, thanks to all for the great feedback. There is allot of ideas that I have gotten figured out.

JB, I like the look of the name plate. I'll have to check with local engravers and see what I can find. Thanks.

CW, after following your posts on your SC I have to quote you in saying "the more ideas the better, I got plenty of of time to pick one before I commit". I especially enjoy how you started out with specific ideas for your Chieftain and then how it morphed and evolved to the great craft that you have.

Grandpa, I am in Northern California and will be using the mistress both at the coast as well as lakes and reservoirs so I see that blade fuses are going to be the way to go. I have the old glass fuse box but i need to clean that area up so I'll splurge and pick up a new covered fuse box i found here on iboats.

GA, I like the idea of small reinforcing pieces of aluminum. I will also try to see what kind of plywood they have here at the local big box stores. I do know when I spoke with one of the guys at Lowes, he told me that you don't need to use marine grade plywood anymore because most of the ply they sell use the same glues and pressure. I don't know the validity of that statement.

Thanks to all the great input. DT

 

[laurentide]

I do know when I spoke with one of the guys at Lowes, he told me that you don't need to use marine grade plywood anymore because most of the ply they sell use the same glues and pressure. I don't know the validity of that statement.

Except that, broadly speaking, the junk they sell is full of voids and I greatly regret using Lowe's ACX for my transom wood. It delaminated after two years on one corner. Marine ply for the transom, whatever you can find for decks/side panels. And thanks for the kind words!
When I re-do my transom I'll be using marine ply and glass/epoxy. Overkill for sure but totally bulletproof.

 

[GA_Boater]

At Lowes with item and model numbers, switch to your local store for availability, not in my local any more. - http://www.lowes.com/pd_170770-49114-LBR-170770_0__?productId=3015484

At HD, with item and model numbers. again switch stores. My local isn't carrying it any more. :blue: - http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sanded-P...ual-0-703-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-690053/100478798

 

[North Beach]

Except that, broadly speaking, the junk they sell is full of voids and I greatly regret using Lowe's ACX for my transom wood. It delaminated after two years on one corner. Marine ply for the transom, whatever you can find for decks/side panels. And thanks for the kind words!
When I re-do my transom I'll be using marine ply and glass/epoxy. Overkill for sure but totally bulletproof.

AMEN!

 

[Watermann]

:welcome: abaord and to the Starmada DT!

The I/O Holly is loved here just about as much as the OB SS models. Lot's of good info you got coming way I see. You have a great boat that s very worthy of being given that second run at being a new boat.

Just one thing that needs to be mentioned. These old boats, especially the IO's 18'+ have issues with rib end cracks and sometimes even the spray rail chine on the side cracking. This is due to the boats being used for years with compromised decking and side panels with loose or broken rivets that hold them all together. With the decking removed you'll want to do a thorough close inspection of the aluminum near the rib ends.

The cracks could be tiny like I had on a couple rib ends of my Chief.

Or they could be a bit more serious like Grandad's Holly. Either way they have to be repaired properly for the type and severity of cracking.

 

[Dantana Tin]

Watermann, thanks for the images and info and images. I have been going through Grandad's post on his Holly and there is allot to take in, but it's great to have access to so much knowledge. I have gutted the floor and doing a thorough cleaning soon if this Northern Cal weather lets up a little. Then I can get a better view of what's going on. The crabbing season was cut short due to high bacteria levels so I have some additional time to do this right. I've been trying to research where to get local foam under the deck but none of the big box stores have the pink or blue closed cell foam.

Thanks again to all, DT.

 

[64osby]

Green sheet foam also works. Around here each of the big 3 box stores have there own color.

 

[Dantana Tin]

So based on the responses I've gotten that the gluv it is a yes, and the Tuff Coat is a NO. Is it best if the bare aluminum is painted? I have been reading allot of posts about aluminum repair and the deterioration of the aluminum with the "white powder". I was just wondering if it would be best to paint and seal the bare aluminum before it's hidden away from sight when I replace the floor?

 

[Watermann]

Your aluminum Holly has survived 49 years now without the inside being painted but I suppose it couldn't hurt. It's just a lot of work to prep the inside properly and there's the cost of materials that could be spent elsewhere.