My new boat nightmare.....Resolved!

[catfishcarl99]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

wow. i agree. dont start wash do nothing to it and tell them you want this resolved by the end of next week or your taking it to the legal system. that lap seam rivets and condition of the paint around them and the patch job. you got used and repaired or damaged goods. dont wait. ide be telling them to come get it and bring a check or youll see em in court. you got shafted big time. and if it was me the please and thanks would now stop and demands begin. they owe you a new boat. not a difference check or DIY paint and decals.

with what looks like painted over corrosion around the rivets ide agree. prob was a demonstration boat. they slipped it to you and if (pretty sure they did) knew there criminally liable. no one judge or jurry would want that to happen to them.

I don't think this is really a "warranty" issue, as the damage existed before the period of use began. This is a delivery condition/concealment matter. A not-new-condition boat being foisted off as one that is new... whose condition was implied to be that of the one on the showroom floor.

i agree. this is previous conceled damage. they should not give you any discount. they should and need to replace this boat period. myself ide just get my money and go elsewhere.

i once bought a ford ranger. it was about 3 years old and was just beautiful. paint was flawless. a few years later my girlfriend wrecked it. and bondo split all down the side that wasnt damaged. needless to say. ive not stepped foot in that dealership again. and never will. they do this sort of thing far more than most relize. and thats why we have legal protection from such things.

 

[rivermouse]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

wow. i agree. dont start wash do nothing to it and tell them you want this resolved by the end of next week or your taking it to the legal system. that lap seam rivets and condition of the paint around them and the patch job. you got used and repaired or damaged goods. dont wait. ide be telling them to come get it and bring a check or youll see em in court. you got shafted big time. and if it was me the please and thanks would now stop and demands begin. they owe you a new boat. not a difference check or DIY paint and decals.

with what looks like painted over corrosion around the rivets ide agree. prob was a demonstration boat. they slipped it to you and if (pretty sure they did) knew there criminally liable. no one judge or jurry would want that to happen to them.

Just like I said, the dealer picked you as the perfect suckar to sell this boat to. I would demand my money back or see them in court and make sure they know you arent bluffing.....They figure they got your money and you cant make them give it back A certified letter to the dealer at this point will let them know they are in for legal trouble. You need to build your case with documentation and you will for sure get satisfaction...Who knows the salesman that ripped you may be working some place else now..I love certified letters because they prove legal documentation that they cant throw in the trash can and can see again in COURT. NO ONE wants a certified letter when they are in the wrong...

 

[jasoutside]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Great....I need to wire brush and paint the new boat before using it.
Am I the only one who thinks this is odd?

No, that's absurd.

I know you are a pro painter but where I sit there are no better conditions to paint a boat than at the factory. Also, there is no better paint job that will happen than at the factory. From what I see up there in your photos, that will likely have on going issues. You may very well have the skills/confidence to make that paint look beautiful but again, you didn't buy a cosmetic blem boat. If you knew going into it that you were going to be doing paint work/repairs (or live with it, go boating and enjoy the giant discount you got), that would be different.

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Just got off the phone with the service manager. He still hadn't looked at these pictures and he is trying to contact Starcraft. I told him that Starcraft has already confirmed this boat has no cosmetic warranty so I have no idea what he is going to tell them. He said he would get back to me.
Anyone know the cost of fixing all the listed problems? Boats are very different than cars and trucks so I am not educated enough in that regard to give an estimate. I would think this is several thousand dollars.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Horse crap. Didn't look at the photos? How hard of a job is that? "Trying" to contact Starcraft? I guess it's a real challenge to pick up the phone and dial the number eh?

I see games being played already.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

I think they are now giving you what's referred to as "the run-around"! I think it's time to stop being so nice and play some serious hardball, this kind of carp should not be acceptable whether buying a car, boat, DVD, Lettuce, etc... (you get my point!?) A concerned, serious Manager would be all over this, even if he has no plans to make you whole...

"I haven't seen the pictures", really? that's lame excuse, he's buying time to consult with their lawyers, who are probably on retainer if this is the way they conduct business?!

I would pass along this "stealership's" name and phone number on here and whatever happens, happens? There's nothing unlawful about doing that as it is factual in nature and not slanderous!

Brett

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Richoman - so sorry to hear about this and I can imagine how heartsick you are.

Home cooking has got some real good advice I think but based on description of what's generally important and what isn't in these cases I'd change my tactic and forget the paint. Focus on those rivets - especially the crushed ones underneath along with the ones you last posted pics of. You don't know those aren't going to loosen up and leak years sooner than they should. That goes right to the boat being fit for extended use and the new and structurally sound condition they represented it to be in when they knew it wasn't.

This isn't damage caused by an innocent accident while you were back for an oil change. In that case i doubt anyone would or could reasonably ask for a replacement boat. Im with oops in that regard because this stinks of outright deception. It's going to take a whole lot more to make you “whole” to use hc's term.

If they haven't sold all their stock tell them you want a new boat along with the gas in your truck there and back. Me, even I'd do it on my own dime if it meant getting to exchange the boat but that could be your fallback position. Sure lots of time has gone by since the purchase but if your research into that Canadian statute is accurate re the one year - why not shoot for it? Perhaps I'm being naive but I think this is definitely worth a couple hundred dollars for some legal advice as a start anyway. Maybe add to that a report from a marine surveyor that expresses concern about those areas.

Good luck, man (and if by chance this was a southern Ontario dealer and you need any local groundwork done throughout this process - shoot me a pm. Maybe I can assist in some way)

The week is over and I haven't heard a damn thing.
It sure is southern Ontario. I might as well say who I am dealing with. People can search my old posts anyway and I've already said where I bought it.
Port Colborne Marine.
And they still have new Islanders for sale.
I am going to have to give them the benefit of the doubt as I could hear the service guy asking the salesman for the photo's. I suppose it will be next week until I hear back.
If this is a mistake then I am sure there will be a discussion between the dealer and Starcraft on who is responsible for this mess.
And I don't think its me.
Before a mob with torches shows up there I would appreciate if this can play out with the ball in their court, so to speak. I need to hear an offical response from them, which I haven't as of yet.
If it goes the "other" way then there are many other options to pursue.

 

[BTMCB]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

The week is over and I haven't heard a damn thing.
It sure is southern Ontario. I might as well say who I am dealing with. People can search my old posts anyway and I've already said where I bought it.
Port Colborne Marine.
And they still have new Islanders for sale.
I am going to have to give them the benefit of the doubt as I could hear the service guy asking the salesman for the photo's. I suppose it will be next week until I hear back.
If this is a mistake then I am sure there will be a discussion between the dealer and Starcraft on who is responsible for this mess.
And I don't think its me.

You are a much more patient and tolerant man than me that's for sure. It seems to me they are "stalling" and / or "putting you off". The more time that goes by since you took delivery (and as I recall you took delivery a long time ago but didn't unwrap until recently) the less likely you will get a good resolution in my humble opinion. They know exactly what they did to you and don't need to "see the photos". They sold you what you were LED to be believe was a "new" boat at "new" boat price but it wasn't. They tried to "cover it up" by convincing you it wasn't necessary to un-wrap the boat at the time of delivery. I wouldn't trust these "people" as far as I could throw them. Don't let them stall. Time is of the essence. I truly feel for you and truly hope you get what you paid for - but the longer you let them stall - the less likely that will occur IMHO. I wish you the very best of luck - you sound like a nice guy and deserve much better.

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Agreed. They know what they did, aren't going to own up to it, and are hoping you just go away and leave them alone. Did you finance this rig? If so you need to make the finance company aware of the situation. If it was me I'd hop[ in my truck and haul that thing back to them, along with a letter from my atty stating they must give you the boat you paid for, not the damaged boat they gave you. Don't wait any longer.

 

[canuckjgc]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

If Starcraft sold it at a discount to the dealer, then Starcraft should know WHAT happened to it, correct? So call Starcraft, give them the serial number, and ask why it was sold at a discount and what the issues are with it. I can't really see the pictures all that well on here, but could it possibly just be a bit of poor workmanship at the factory rather than damage repair? If you can find out what it is, you may be able to save yourself lawyer's fees, etc. If it is just poor workmanship, they owe you the difference between your boat and a flawless boat, which may amount to a few hundred bucks.

If it was damaged and repaired and not disclosed, then that is not a warranty issue by any stretch. You are entitled to a refund as you received a used boat in essence.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

If Starcraft sold it at a discount to the dealer, then Starcraft should know WHAT happened to it, correct? So call Starcraft, give them the serial number, and ask why it was sold at a discount and what the issues are with it. I can't really see the pictures all that well on here, but could it possibly just be a bit of poor workmanship at the factory rather than damage repair? If you can find out what it is, you may be able to save yourself lawyer's fees, etc. If it is just poor workmanship, they owe you the difference between your boat and a flawless boat, which may amount to a few hundred bucks.

If it was damaged and repaired and not disclosed, then that is not a warranty issue by any stretch. You are entitled to a refund as you received a used boat in essence.

My guess is his bigger concern is that there is no warranty on the vessel and furthermore I 100% disagree on your idea that they owe him the difference between a perfect new boat and a flawed new boat...it was misrepresented at time of sale, that is a way bigger issue than just an imperfection in the paint. It all comes down to what he signed and what's in that contract. If it says new, by gawd it better be new. I would love to sit on the jury on any consumer law violation, I would hold the stealership to the highest standard of the law (civil and/or criminal) and punish accordingly. If they did disclose in the written contract, then I would say shame on you Mr./Mrs. Buyer (buyer beware) as you didn't read your contract...I don't think that's the case here.

Reminds me of a bedtime time story I read to my kids, "The Bell of Atri" (if unfamilar, look it up?!). The dealer should step-up, plain and simple. If I was in their shoes, I would. Often, the measure of a person (business) is how they handle problems!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Starcraft has been pretty good at replying. They have said that the missing rivet thing is cosmetic and my hull warranty should cover that if it leaks. They also said I should wire brush the paint at the rivets and apply self etching primer and topcoat, and read up on galvanic corrosion. Great....I need to wire brush and paint the new boat before using it.
Am I the only one who thinks this is odd?

Well this has officially gotten ridiculous.

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

If Starcraft sold it at a discount to the dealer, then Starcraft should know WHAT happened to it, correct? So call Starcraft, give them the serial number, and ask why it was sold at a discount and what the issues are with it. I can't really see the pictures all that well on here, but could it possibly just be a bit of poor workmanship at the factory rather than damage repair? If you can find out what it is, you may be able to save yourself lawyer's fees, etc. If it is just poor workmanship, they owe you the difference between your boat and a flawless boat, which may amount to a few hundred bucks.

If it was damaged and repaired and not disclosed, then that is not a warranty issue by any stretch. You are entitled to a refund as you received a used boat in essence.

I don't know where you live, but to repaint that spot, refinish the hull where there is corrosion around the rivets (and I see at least 45) and fix the damaged rivets is not a few hundred bucks. If you can do that for $300 I will bring it to you tomorrow.
I don't want a few hundred bucks. I wanted a new boat.
What would I take for this damage? I don't know. But it won't be a few hundred bucks.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

You've learned a couple of lifes lessons here.

1. Don't buy "sight unseen".

2. Deal locally.

I'm guessing you went with the dealer 3000 klicks away instead of your local dealer because they had the best price? If so, now you know why they had the best price.

I don't blame you for being mad, I would be too... but I wouldn't be playing phone and email tag with that dealer or Starcraft. I'd be raising a stink in a showroom full of customers tomorrow because it doesn't sound like that dealer has interest in satisfying you.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Well ricoh, you've definately got a mess. I also believe that you're handling things well all in all. With you're professional experience you know that documentation is paramount, you know that civil court requires much less evidence/proof to get a judgement on your behalf (and I wholeheartedly agree with your decision to pursue this civilly,BTW) and you've got a ton of great advice on here. While I agree with 90% of the advice (specifically seeing if a third party engine dealer can read the computer and get you info from it) I'm not going to contradict anyone's opinion on the other 10%...I'm not here to start a flame war.

Everyone on here knows Starcraft isn't responsible unless there's evidence showing they sold the boat to the dealership as new and undamaged (which would most likely be an oversight) so keeping them neutral, passive and cooperating is key. I'd continue to communicate with Starcraft and get hard copies of all their info on your boat....because you know the dealership either has or will be getting that info as well.

You obviously know how to build a case and maintain documentation and evidence but the dealership probably doesn't. I'd handle this like any other criminal case you'd be investigating....get all the info they'll have but don't let them know you've got it. When they contradict that evidence, turn the table just like you would in the interrogation room. If they don't back down at that point that's when I'd say it's time for a lawyer but give them the chance to backtrack and reconsider.......one time.

I know I'm preaching to the chior with what I've said but I'd want reassurance that I was handling myself well if I was in your shoes. Keep us updated and keep your head up!

 

[Bigkat650]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

I am sorry to hear about your boat. The last thing anyone wants is to make such a major purchase and have so much go wrong.

For those of you suggesting that this is just a few hundred dollar fix--IMHO, that's irrelevant. I also think its blatantly obvious that the dealer is not concerned with the matter at all. For you to get the photo's to them a couple days ago, and ask multiple people over several days to look at them, and no one has-just tells me no one wants to deal with it.

At this point I would gather all of your information and photo's and contact a lawyer to present your case. The paperwork you signed and what was represented to you was a NEW boat. Anything less then NEW is unacceptable, and should be unacceptable. If you still want to give the dealership the benefit of the doubt, I would contact them 1 more time and be a little more stern on your request. Insist that they look at the photo's while you are on the phone with them--they can pull them up and look at them in less then 30 seconds. Let them know your intentions, that if they do not provide you with a NEW boat as agreed upon, you will take this to court.

What they will probably offer you is for you to bring the boat back to the dealership, and they will do the work to make the repairs themselves for you. They will not offer you any compensation to drive out, nor will they offer any other shipping option. I think if you take the boat back to the dealer, I would ask for a full 100% refund and not a dime less. Obviously they are more concerned with there sales then their customer service. It is not a dealership worth dealing with again.

Good Luck

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

You've learned a couple of lifes lessons here.

1. Don't buy "sight unseen".

2. Deal locally.

I'm guessing you went with the dealer 3000 klicks away instead of your local dealer because they had the best price? If so, now you know why they had the best price.

I don't blame you for being mad, I would be too... but I wouldn't be playing phone and email tag with that dealer or Starcraft. I'd be raising a stink in a showroom full of customers tomorrow because it doesn't sound like that dealer has interest in satisfying you.

You are wrong on two points. I bought at this dealer because he had an Islander. Finding an Islander in Saskatchewan is impossible.
If I wanted to buy a new F350 out of province I bet I could arrange that over the phone and have no trouble like this. Its done thousands of times daily in Canada.
I guess boat dealers are different in that regard.

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Well ricoh, you've definately got a mess. I also believe that you're handling things well all in all. With you're professional experience you know that documentation is paramount, you know that civil court requires much less evidence/proof to get a judgement on your behalf (and I wholeheartedly agree with your decision to pursue this civilly,BTW) and you've got a ton of great advice on here. While I agree with 90% of the advice (specifically seeing if a third party engine dealer can read the computer and get you info from it) I'm not going to contradict anyone's opinion on the other 10%...I'm not here to start a flame war.

Everyone on here knows Starcraft isn't responsible unless there's evidence showing they sold the boat to the dealership as new and undamaged (which would most likely be an oversight) so keeping them neutral, passive and cooperating is key. I'd continue to communicate with Starcraft and get hard copies of all their info on your boat....because you know the dealership either has or will be getting that info as well.

You obviously know how to build a case and maintain documentation and evidence but the dealership probably doesn't. I'd handle this like any other criminal case you'd be investigating....get all the info they'll have but don't let them know you've got it. When they contradict that evidence, turn the table just like you would in the interrogation room. If they don't back down at that point that's when I'd say it's time for a lawyer but give them the chance to backtrack and reconsider.......one time.

I know I'm preaching to the chior with what I've said but I'd want reassurance that I was handling myself well if I was in your shoes. Keep us updated and keep your head up!

Thank you for this message.
I bought from a dealer and did my transaction because I assumed it was like buying a vehicle. But now I have learned that boat dealers do not have to act like a Ford dealer would.
That said, I am going to wait for their response. Maybe they will make this right?
As I first said, all I want is the warranty reinstated and then everything will take care of itself. If the dealer and Starcraft can figure who is paying (not me though) and they grant the warranty, then I can take the boat in and have it repaired. Driving to them for a repair is not going to happen. A weeks wages and over 1K worth of fuel is not acceptable.
I have a good understanding of the criminal code. Its ironic that I'm a detective in a commercial crime unit and I seem to be the victim of a commercial crime.
But maybe next week this will all be sorted.

 

[oops!]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

this is a link to richohman's first post about the boat.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=512254

 

[blamtro]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

I don't mean to be blunt but you are getting bent over. The dealership doesn't care, they think you will go away. The sales manager hasn't even taken the 13 seconds to look at your photos. You are getting the run around. You were sold a blemished boat as new.

Stop wasting time and contact a lawyer. Don't let this turn into another "we told you so"

I sympathize with you but if you aren't willing to realize the dealership doesn't care at this point...